****The Official Belgian (Spa) Grand Prix thread 2015****

[entropy]

Smollet said:

That move was quite remarkable unlike the rest of the race. When a circuit like Spa fails to deliver an exciting race I begin to wonder where F1 is going.

A couple of weeks ago I watched the 1985 Belgian GP (which can be found on YT). Started off wet and still ended up as a snoozefest. Or how about 2002 when Schumi destroyed the opposition.

[Allyc85]

It wasn't a classic, but it was far from a snooze fest. Since DRS has been introduced it seems to always have been far too powerful at Spa. Too many moves completed way before Les Combes today.

Bloody brilliant from Verstappen though!

[GreigM]

Allyc85 said:

It wasn't a classic, but it was far from a snooze fest. Since DRS has been introduced it seems to always have been far too powerful at Spa. Too many moves completed way before Les Combes today.

Bloody brilliant from Verstappen though!

Agreed, the DRS zone should be far shorter...

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

RichB said:

Derek Smith said:

...they are most likely to under high load, or just after.

It would appear that they have a detrimental effect on the tyres as Pirelli asked NR about riding them and both he and SV reckoned that they had not. Mind you, Radillion was driven over in gay abandon by all. Except NR and RD it seems...

In the replays you can see Vettel absolutely smashes it over the raised kerbs at Eau Rouge prior to his failure. Who is RD?

Not sure how SV transposed into Ron Dennis.

When Hemsley, I think, said something like: 'If Vettel says his didn't hit the kerbs then we must believe him' in such a heavily loaded tone, I ran the race back and there was a lovely slomo of him completely over the white line on one corner. And there were other instances.

So a bit of creative thinking on SV's behalf there. He was well angry and he just wanted to hit out I think. It's a bit harsh on Pirelli though.

The linking it with Rosberg's puncture was a bit premature as well. They seemed to be different.

On another topic, the race was exciting. It had a thoroughly exciting start, the middle was interesting and the end built up anticipation. Fair enough, LH didn't look under pressure at any time, although the gap did close a bit at the tyre stops, but LH just put in a few fast ones and that was it.

But for the rest it was great. Good race. Just like formula 1 in fact.

"Vettel also expressed his anger to Paul Hembery after the race, saying that Ferrari had been told they could do 40 laps on the tyre. It failed after 28 laps of that stint in the race.

Hembery said: "It was at the end of wear life and when you do that, any tyre in the world, when it gets to its wear life, you're going to have a problem."

However, he admitted that Pirelli had not warned Ferrari that they were taking a risk by running the tyre that long."

The tyre wore out far earlier than Pirelli expected it to then failed catastrophically. Unacceptable and relatively easily avoided.

If it was a one off, it might be excusable but it isn't is it? It's one thing deliberately building tyres that wear out prematurely but Pirelli don't seem to have a real grasp of what they're doing.

[Vaud]

I think Vettel is right in part - a worn tyre should not catastrophically fail, it's not like he was driving it on the cords.

It should degrade, and then become horribly slow, but not fail - if it is broadly within the margins provided but the supplier.

I like Pirelli, I think they do the best of difficult job - but in this case I think Vettel is right (from the info I have seen so far)

[Vaud]

I like this note on BadgerGP:

Max Verstappen – He finished the race in 8th place after starting 18th and some of his moves the field were nothing short of spectacular. He was ballsy round the outside of Blanchimont to clear the Sauber of Felipe Nasr by the Bus Stop and threw it round the outside and inside of several cars trough Les Combes. Some overtakes worked, some didn’t but the boy tried his very best today.

Certainly the first time I can recall anyone trying that move around Blanchimont. Brave stuff. Just what we want to see.

Also Grosjean as their driver of the day. Agreed.

[Jasandjules]

Vaud said:

Certainly the first time I can recall anyone trying that move around Blanchimont. Brave stuff. Just what we want to see.

And I think his move on Kimi would have been better had Massa not been going slower through the chicane than he was expecting (didn't account for far worse tyres than he had on) and didn't have to stamp so hard on the brakes, as in I think he'd have made it round without leaving the track and made it stick.

He certainly has confidence in the car - rather like a certain Webber many moons ago now....

[NRS]

GreigM said:

Allyc85 said:

It wasn't a classic, but it was far from a snooze fest. Since DRS has been introduced it seems to always have been far too powerful at Spa. Too many moves completed way before Les Combes today.

Bloody brilliant from Verstappen though!

Agreed, the DRS zone should be far shorter...

Would have to agree. Any passing was too easy and unlike some of the earlier races it meant people who were out of position/ on different strategies don't cause large variations where people were stuck together for a while.

Derek Smith said:

Complaints about the tyre failures have some basis. Both Vettel and Rosberg were very lucky where they had the failure. Should kerb riding be banned, or kerbs banned?

I think there must be some changes.

The problem might well be the organiser's desire to make the tyre life a factor in the race. They are designed to fail.

VolvoT5 said:

RichB said:

o, the tyres were worn out.

shouldn't just fail completely without warning surely?

It didn't - the tread went first, then the main structure. Not sure what else you could do to make a tyre "go" more safely if it's been on too long? I also suspect the 40 laps is not just "it will survive 40 laps" but a "x % will survive 40 laps". Plus it ignores the impact of anything else damaging the tyres. Not to mention Lauda basically contradicted Ferrari saying it wasn't possible.

VolvoT5 said:

Clearly gonna be a 2 stopper then? Not sure even Ferrari can make a 1 stop today?

Interesting comment with hindsight! Particularly that you're now blaming Pirelli...

Smollet said:

Good to see the Honda with Ferrari like power or maybe that claim was well wide of the mark or is the chassis now crap?

Pretty clear Honda were speaking nonsense with "Ferrari power" from their engine.

Edited by NRS on Sunday 23 August 22:10

Edited by NRS on Sunday 23 August 22:11

[rallycross]

Impasse said:

Highlights:

a single overtake by a 17 year old,
a botched pit stop,
a puncture.

For Sale: One packet of Nytol, unused and no longer required.

Correct!
Take one of the worlds best circuits and some of the worlds best drivers and result = boring yawn fest. Luckily I watched it on catch up and could fast forward through most of it. Poor show F1 - please sort it out soon.

[carinaman]

Was the 2012 Spa race up to much? I can only remember Hamilton Tweeting his telemetry after Button had gone faster and that first corner pile up.

[JustinF]

Take Merc out of the equation and all the strategies tied really nicely together in the last few laps with the fight for 3rd and the 5th to 8th running nose to tail, if only the race was a few k longer it'd have had a lot more action. The pre race set-up gambles on predicted rain and SC likely-hoods probably put paid to that eventuality. Dismissing it as a snooze fest is disingenuous, the strategies didn't pan out and part of the appeal of racing is watching all the various approaches and stint strategies all gel together in the last few laps.
If you want action every lap then frankly F1 isn't your sport.

[C2996]

NRS said:

Pretty clear Honda were speaking nonsense with "Ferrari power" from their engine.

Edited by NRS on Sunday 23 August 22:10

Edited by NRS on Sunday 23 August 22:11

They never said which ferrari to be fair, maybe they meant the same as a 308 gtb

[glazbagun]

Anyone have a link to Button/Alonso post race interviews?

[carinaman]

glazbagun said:

Anyone have a link to Button/Alonso post race interviews?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjDbYUDYANM

Edited by carinaman on Monday 24th August 01:20

[lbc]

I haven't seen any comment from Ferrari about the tyre failure.

In fact I never saw any interviews with the Ferrari boss on Sunday at all. Was he still on holiday?

I guess this means they knew they were taking a big risk in doing too many laps on the same tyres.

[SeeFive]

My best guess is that Ferrari and Pirelli will be able to compare the wear on the other rear tyre to ascertain if it was as Paul suggested a wear problem. When I heard him say that, I wondered what his evidence was so soon after the event.

So was the other rear through to the canvas too? Had Vettel seen massive degradation in getting the power down and oversteer as associated with rear tyres that were badly worn? Or is Paul suggesting that the amount of curb being used by the cars was greater than when he reportedly said they should last 40 laps? They really were outside of track limits at times coming over the top of Eau Rouge never mind on the curb!

However, I think Seb may have a point here if he didn't feel massive deg before the explosion.

Oh yes, the race... For me it was a bit boring in the main except for the young fella not understanding us old heads saying that it is not possible to pass around the outside on the marbles at Blanchmont

[S0 What]

LOL this place makes me laugh, 1 fairly boring race and it's the end of the world for some, f1 has lost direction ect ect, i seem to remember that the last race (at a traditionly boring track) was a cracker, some people have VERY short memory or HUGE panic glands, or possably both
I really do honestly wonder why some bother to turn the TV on i reaally do unless it's just to give them something to moan about
I nearly fell of the safa when SV claimed to have not hit any curbs coming from the man who traditionly spent more time off track in his RB than any other driver in the field i felt he was being a tad optomistic, especialy as the replay (and the race coveradge) showed him all over them same as everyone else but hey ho never let the truth get in the way of a good old pirelli bashing
Other than that a fairly ok race, certainly seen way WAY more boring races and expect the next race to be one of them TBH (cue exploding heads on PH).

[carinaman]

The Williams tyre management mishap was different.

Bottas started third and finished about 4 places behind Massa.

I like Kimi and I like the Ferrari FF, but I nodded off twice during the Tom Clarkson drive to the circuit feature.

I thought the Verstappen pass was very good.

[Jasandjules]

carinaman said:

T
I thought the Verstappen pass was very good.

I heard a rumour that his engineer shouted "now that's how to f***ng do it" over the radio to him.......

[jazzdevil]

C2996 said:

They never said which ferrari to be fair, maybe they meant the same as a 308 gtb

Ha! Touche.