Blue Flags

[coppice]

Exige77 said:

There’s no sense on entitlement, it’s the rules.

F1 is different to other lower Formulea.

You “must” let lapping drivers past after passing 3 blue flags or face a penalty.

Come on, there is a massive sense of entitlement in F1 and it is far more inflated than in lower formulae . Even when one of the top guys has to start at the back , they expect everybody else to jump out of their way , even when racing for places . There's heroic whingeing and whining coming from the cockpit when backmarkers are caught and whilst it has always been a rule to obey blues it has , of late , been taken to absurd levels (like much else in F1 ).

I'd get rid off blues tomorrow - if you're a racing driver you should learn how to overtake . Seriously - it's a dying art now we have the battle of the pit stop algorithms . Some folk may get ever so excited at the prospect of an over- or under- cut . I'm not one of them .

[flying-banana]

Exige77 said:

Eric Mc said:

Rules are man made and can be changed.

They have not been handed down by some deity.

The issue is not the blue flags, the issue is the aero rules stop cars closely following and overtaking.

Blue flags in F1 is just a red herring.

I agree, it's the aero that's the issue, it's about time there were regs stipulating simpler aero, and if they're worried about the cars looking too slow, then they can re-introduce some level of ground effect

[sparta6]

coppice said:

I'd get rid off blues tomorrow - if you're a racing driver you should learn how to overtake . Seriously - it's a dying art now we have the battle of the pit stop algorithms . Some folk may get ever so excited at the prospect of an over- or under- cut . I'm not one of them .

100%
An overcut or undercut is a poor substitute for overtaking skills.

[Kraken]

Nothing wrong with undercuts and overcuts etc. After all it's not a sprint race so pitstops are an integral part of the racing and if you're up against a car with the same level of performance you're not getting by any other way regardless of any aero failings etc.

Not to say that we shouldn't be able to have proper non-DRS overtakes and no blue flags as well as pit strategy of course though.

[entropy]

sparta6 said:

100%
An overcut or undercut is a poor substitute for overtaking skills.

You can't pin the blame on that alone. It was a lot worse in the refuelling era and now there's greater onus on the driver to overtake on track.

Data anlaysis, strategists are there to decide pit strategy and then its down to the driver to execute and if you can't overtake its because tyres being ruined/get stuck behind hot, dirty air....

[bigbadbikercats]

Hmmm...

One thing about the much derided grid penalty regime is that we’ve seen fast cars starting from the back of the grid a lot more often than we used to. If a top driver in a top car can drive his way from the back of the grid to top ten in a dozen or so laps (and then onwards to the podium in the course of a race) without the aid of the blue flag rule then it’s hard to see why lapping tail-enders (who would presumably be subject to penalties for attempting any kind of outright defending against a car attempting to lap them under a blue flag) would be any more of an imposition.

And yes, junior teams, engine contracts, drivers under development deals (or signed for next year) driving for other teams - that stuff can already impact results to some extent so it’s just more of the same and one more tactical/strategic consideration amongst a load of others, it’s how F1 is (and always has been to some extent). It isn’t going away so might as well embrace any resulting skullduggery as part of the greater show...

[coppice]

Kraken said:

Nothing wrong with undercuts and overcuts etc. After all it's not a sprint race so pitstops are an integral part of the racing and if you're up against a car with the same level of performance you're not getting by any other way regardless of any aero failings etc.

Not to say that we shouldn't be able to have proper non-DRS overtakes and no blue flags as well as pit strategy of course though.

F1 is , or should be , about the essence of racing which is one driver overtaking another on track . Everything else is background noise. Strategy absolutely has a place in endurance racing , where nobody cares very much which driver wins but which team . F1 , at the sharp end on track , despite all the waffle about it being a team sport, is about which driver wins.

People still talk about Clark's drive at Monza '67, Mansell's at Silverstone 87 , Hill's at Suzuka 94 , Senna's at Donington 93 and Hamilton (pick your race) but I guarantee that nobody - nobody - in 2020, let alone 2050 , will be talking about any pit stop strategy any driver chose in the 2018 season. Or any other...

[sparta6]

coppice said:

People still talk about Clark's drive at Monza '67, Mansell's at Silverstone 87 , Hill's at Suzuka 94 , Senna's at Donington 93 and Hamilton (pick your race) but I guarantee that nobody - nobody - in 2020, let alone 2050 , will be talking about any pit stop strategy any driver chose in the 2018 season. Or any other...

Nail on head

Should we include Schumacher at Barcelona '96 in that list ?

[entropy]

coppice said:

F1 is , or should be , about the essence of racing which is one driver overtaking another on track . Everything else is background noise. Strategy absolutely has a place in endurance racing , where nobody cares very much which driver wins but which team . F1 , at the sharp end on track , despite all the waffle about it being a team sport, is about which driver wins.

People still talk about Clark's drive at Monza '67, Mansell's at Silverstone 87 , Hill's at Suzuka 94 , Senna's at Donington 93 and Hamilton (pick your race) but I guarantee that nobody - nobody - in 2020, let alone 2050 , will be talking about any pit stop strategy any driver chose in the 2018 season. Or any other...

If you were to come up with Schumi's greatest wins the the 1998 Hungarian GP would be up there: Ross Brawn switching Schumi onto a 3 stopper.

Strategy is important whether you like it or not or no matter how much the driver gets the plaudits. Just take the recent US GP and all the noise over Merc getting Lewis's pit strategy wrong.

[Kraken]

coppice said:

F1 is , or should be , about the essence of racing which is one driver overtaking another on track . Everything else is background noise. Strategy absolutely has a place in endurance racing , where nobody cares very much which driver wins but which team . F1 , at the sharp end on track , despite all the waffle about it being a team sport, is about which driver wins.

People still talk about Clark's drive at Monza '67, Mansell's at Silverstone 87 , Hill's at Suzuka 94 , Senna's at Donington 93 and Hamilton (pick your race) but I guarantee that nobody - nobody - in 2020, let alone 2050 , will be talking about any pit stop strategy any driver chose in the 2018 season. Or any other...

A nearly two hour race is always going to be about strategy at one level or another. I don't see why we can't have the strategy of pitstops AND great racing on track. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

For a lot of people F1 is very much about the team not the driver or do you think loads of fans will abandon Ferrari to follow Kimi to Sauber?

[Oilchange]

Button in Canada has to be up there...

[coppice]

Kraken said:

A nearly two hour race is always going to be about strategy at one level or another. I don't see why we can't have the strategy of pitstops AND great racing on track. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

For a lot of people F1 is very much about the team not the driver or do you think loads of fans will abandon Ferrari to follow Kimi to Sauber?

Good question . Ferrari is sui generis and even in the early 70s, when I first attended Grands Prix, one saw the occasional tifoso in cavallino rampante gear. Hesketh too had a partisan following back then but the fans followed Hunt to McLaren in 76 .

So , the Raikknonen question . I suspect that little will change for the hardcore Kimi fan - they'll follow the charmless ,taciturn Finn wherever he goes. He seems to exert a strong draw not only on Finns , which is understandable , but on others who find his monosyllables appealing . But for the real Ferrari fan he;ll be history as soon as he leaves . But they really are different as a breed - I am in no doubt that the Orange Army's loyalty to Red Bull would evaporate instantly if he were to leave .