Welcome back Jenson?

[DJRC]

Drivers come, drivers go. The world keeps turning, blokes keep racing. GP racing now is very little different to how it always has been.

Merc come in, they dominate. Rinse and repeat.

As for Hamilton? Rapidly becoming a modern great.

[blueg33]

I like Button he seems to be a combination of excellent driver and good bloke which is rareish in the F1 world of male Divas. JB is still competitive and with the same kit was an equal to Hamilton but with a very different style.

Hamilton is also am eccdllent driver , his style makes for better TV as he is generally more edgy. Hamilton as he matures is getting more likeable.

It would be very interesting to have seen JB and Hamilton on the same car when if was properly competitive and would have been interesting to see how Hamilton would have dealt with the pressures of a midfield car as JB has had to for most of his career. Hamilton was lucky to start his career in a top flight car and team.

[LDN]

blueg33 said:

It would be very interesting to have seen JB and Hamilton on the same car when if was properly competitive and would have been interesting to see how Hamilton would have dealt with the pressures of a midfield car as JB has had to for most of his career. Hamilton was lucky to start his career in a top flight car and team.

Not to rehash an old subject but... luck had very very little to do with it. It was hard work over many years that brought in the exceptional results in karting and the sponsorship. Exactly the same scenario with Vettel and Red Bull. If you mean, lucky that the car was competitive in his rookie year; maybe...but, surely then unlucky that it was less than great many years after his WDC year. Vettel was surely the 'luckiest' in this regard - to have been nurtured and brought up by Red Bull to then be given an extraordinary car for many years in a row. In any case; you're right, JB is underrated and it'll be a shame if he goes.

[Europa1]

RichB said:

Is snarky the in word?

I didn't think they were snarky, more world weary, dry sarcasm born out of 2 seasons of dragging a dog of a car around the world's racetracks whilst suffering a series of left field strategy calls and currently having his chain seriously yanked by his employer as said employer fawns over the "Spanish samurai"

[blueg33]

LDN said:

blueg33 said:

It would be very interesting to have seen JB and Hamilton on the same car when if was properly competitive and would have been interesting to see how Hamilton would have dealt with the pressures of a midfield car as JB has had to for most of his career. Hamilton was lucky to start his career in a top flight car and team.

Not to rehash an old subject but... luck had very very little to do with it. It was hard work over many years that brought in the exceptional results in karting and the sponsorship. Exactly the same scenario with Vettel and Red Bull. If you mean, lucky that the car was competitive in his rookie year; maybe...but, surely then unlucky that it was less than great many years after his WDC year. Vettel was surely the 'luckiest' in this regard - to have been nurtured and brought up by Red Bull to then be given an extraordinary car for many years in a row. In any case; you're right, JB is underrated and it'll be a shame if he goes.

I agree, lucky in terms of car, but Vettel was luckiest without doubt.

[hairyben]

I see people are still quoting jensons out-pointing of hamilton in an attempt to prove something... in ordinary circumstance this would be reasonable but likes been pointed out several times, the last few mclaren years were rather exceptional. Observe a list that demonstrates hamiltons 2012 mclaren/billy braggs circus' monkeys act experience:

Malaysia- bungled pit stop
China- Grid penalty for gearbox, bungled Pit stop
Bahrain- Bungled pit stop x2
Spain- Excluded from pole to back of grid for no fuel sample after qualli
Valencia- poor tyre strat, got maldonardo'd
Britain- wrong tyres
Germany- Puncture, suspension failure
Singapore- gearbox failure, retired while leading
Korea- Anti-roll bar failure
India- gearbox fault
Abu dhabi- fuel pressure, retired while leading
Brazil- Hulkenberg'd while leading

Not every last issue was mclarens fault of course but has been included for completeness, the list might not be 100% either I don't have time to check every detail..

[Europa1]

hairyben said:

I see people are still quoting jensons out-pointing of hamilton in an attempt to prove something... in ordinary circumstance this would be reasonable but likes been pointed out several times, the last few mclaren years were rather exceptional. Observe a list that demonstrates hamiltons 2012 mclaren/billy braggs circus' monkeys act experience:

Malaysia- bungled pit stop
China- Grid penalty for gearbox, bungled Pit stop
Bahrain- Bungled pit stop x2
Spain- Excluded from pole to back of grid for no fuel sample after qualli
Valencia- poor tyre strat, got maldonardo'd
Britain- wrong tyres
Germany- Puncture, suspension failure
Singapore- gearbox failure, retired while leading
Korea- Anti-roll bar failure
India- gearbox fault
Abu dhabi- fuel pressure, retired while leading
Brazil- Hulkenberg'd while leading

Not every last issue was mclarens fault of course but has been included for completeness, the list might not be 100% either I don't have time to check every detail..

Canada - stuffed up trying to overtake Button...

[HTP99]

Europa1 said:

hairyben said:

I see people are still quoting jensons out-pointing of hamilton in an attempt to prove something... in ordinary circumstance this would be reasonable but likes been pointed out several times, the last few mclaren years were rather exceptional. Observe a list that demonstrates hamiltons 2012 mclaren/billy braggs circus' monkeys act experience:

Malaysia- bungled pit stop
China- Grid penalty for gearbox, bungled Pit stop
Bahrain- Bungled pit stop x2
Spain- Excluded from pole to back of grid for no fuel sample after qualli
Valencia- poor tyre strat, got maldonardo'd
Britain- wrong tyres
Germany- Puncture, suspension failure
Singapore- gearbox failure, retired while leading
Korea- Anti-roll bar failure
India- gearbox fault
Abu dhabi- fuel pressure, retired while leading
Brazil- Hulkenberg'd while leading

Not every last issue was mclarens fault of course but has been included for completeness, the list might not be 100% either I don't have time to check every detail..

Canada - stuffed up trying to overtake Button...

I'm sure there instances over the course of the three years that JB and Hamilton worked together where there were pretty much equal screw ups on both sides.

[Catatafish]

Europa1 said:

hairyben said:

I see people are still quoting jensons out-pointing of hamilton in an attempt to prove something... in ordinary circumstance this would be reasonable but likes been pointed out several times, the last few mclaren years were rather exceptional. Observe a list that demonstrates hamiltons 2012 mclaren/billy braggs circus' monkeys act experience:

Malaysia- bungled pit stop
China- Grid penalty for gearbox, bungled Pit stop
Bahrain- Bungled pit stop x2
Spain- Excluded from pole to back of grid for no fuel sample after qualli
Valencia- poor tyre strat, got maldonardo'd
Britain- wrong tyres
Germany- Puncture, suspension failure
Singapore- gearbox failure, retired while leading
Korea- Anti-roll bar failure
India- gearbox fault
Abu dhabi- fuel pressure, retired while leading
Brazil- Hulkenberg'd while leading

Not every last issue was mclarens fault of course but has been included for completeness, the list might not be 100% either I don't have time to check every detail..

Canada - stuffed up trying to overtake Button...

Hamilton won Canada 2012

[MG511]

hairyben said:

Brazil- Hulkenberg'd while leading

Without a safety car he would never have seen JB, who was well ahead of him. JB also suffered pit stop bungles, Vettel taking him out at Spa etc etc, I don't recall their 'luck' being as one-sided as you imply.

[DJRC]

A. Who is BJ under rated by? Not inside the Paddock unless you really think Ron knows jack about decent drivers. If however we mean by punters well each race day thread only ever serves to show that the majority of "enthusiasts" are little more than retarded monkeys. So their opinion doesn't exactly count.
B. The Hamilton/BJ thing. Both were fairly equal in equal cars. Simples. Hamilton in my humble is the quicker all round bloke but BJ can lay claim to one of if not the greatest race victories of all time in Canada. It simply was that good. Stands comparison with Fangio and the Ring and as a performance alongside Rodriguez at Brands.

You deliver one of the top 3 greatest victories of all time then nobody worthwhile under rates you.

[Smollet]

DJRC said:

As for Hamilton? Rapidly becoming a modern great.

I tend to agree. This year has been his best since his first in 2007. The year he won the title he was showing signs of fragility and imo was fortunate to win it. Going back to the fact that Hamilton has won more GPs than Button I'd venture to say that Button has spent a far greater percentage of his career driving a crap car compared to that of Hamilton. I doubt he would've cracked as much as Rosberg has this year if he were in a Merc and arguably would've scored more victories at the expense of Lewis.

[Smollet]

RichB said:

Is snarky the in word?

It is if you're a Boojum

[Catatafish]

DJRC said:

A. Who is BJ under rated by? Not inside the Paddock unless you really think Ron knows jack about decent drivers. If however we mean by punters well each race day thread only ever serves to show that the majority of "enthusiasts" are little more than retarded monkeys. So their opinion doesn't exactly count.
B. The Hamilton/BJ thing. Both were fairly equal in equal cars. Simples. Hamilton in my humble is the quicker all round bloke but BJ can lay claim to one of if not the greatest race victories of all time in Canada. It simply was that good. Stands comparison with Fangio and the Ring and as a performance alongside Rodriguez at Brands.

You deliver one of the top 3 greatest victories of all time then nobody worthwhile under rates you.

That race was certainly a good spectacle, but amongst the "greatest victories of all time" is a bit much and entirely subjective. IMO the setup after a few safety cars and the usual top three making mistakes did most of the work for JB.

[Agent Orange]

DJRC said:

JB can lay claim to one of if not the greatest race victories of all time in Canada. It simply was that good. Stands comparison with Fangio and the Ring and as a performance alongside Rodriguez at Brands.

You deliver one of the top 3 greatest victories of all time then nobody worthwhile under rates you.

Would tend to agree. Jenson at Canada was one of those moments when sport can leave you speechless and appreciate you are witnessing something incredible. As a sporting event on TV I struggle to think of anything that matches it.

I can't recall any of the many wins that Vettel has had but I'll never forget that single race in Canada.

The JB v LH thing though... I can't say I'm really into that. Very different drivers with differing styles. As dream teams go I'd say LH and JB were pretty close to perfect. Maybe not so far as designing a car for both but certainly in the way they feed off each others complimentary skills and learn from each other.

[DanielSan]

I'd say that Button/Hamilton was the best driver pairing of any team since Senna/Prost. Possibly better considering that they were also able to work together. Sadly Mclaren supplied them with mostly ste. Bar the second half of 2011 where the car came good.

[sandman77]

DJRC said:

A. Who is BJ under rated by? Not inside the Paddock unless you really think Ron knows jack about decent drivers. If however we mean by punters well each race day thread only ever serves to show that the majority of "enthusiasts" are little more than retarded monkeys. So their opinion doesn't exactly count.
B. The Hamilton/BJ thing. Both were fairly equal in equal cars. Simples. Hamilton in my humble is the quicker all round bloke but BJ can lay claim to one of if not the greatest race victories of all time in Canada. It simply was that good. Stands comparison with Fangio and the Ring and as a performance alongside Rodriguez at Brands.

You deliver one of the top 3 greatest victories of all time then nobody worthwhile under rates you.

Are you calling him BJ on purpose? A bit childish if you are.

[DJRC]

Precisely because it annoys some ppl enough to comment on it rather than on what is being discussed is precisely the reason I continue to do it. That it still riles ppl after 10yrs continues to warm the cockles of my extremely childish heart That ppl continue to regard calling someone childish as some kind of deep insult also continues to gladden me Just wait until you are able to tell me what a totally uncouth low born gutter dwelling piece of scum I am and fear not stick around for I give plenty such opportunities

Or of course you can just ignore it. You would be amazed at the amount of bks I manage to ignore but then I freely expect most of what is said to be drivel. I am rarely disappointed

[blueg33]

DJRC said:

Precisely because it annoys some ppl enough to comment on it rather than on what is being discussed is precisely the reason I continue to do it. That it still riles ppl after 10yrs continues to warm the cockles of my extremely childish heart That ppl continue to regard calling someone childish as some kind of deep insult also continues to gladden me Just wait until you are able to tell me what a totally uncouth low born gutter dwelling piece of scum I am and fear not stick around for I give plenty such opportunities

Or of course you can just ignore it. You would be amazed at the amount of bks I manage to ignore but then I freely expect most of what is said to be drivel. I am rarely disappointed

How infantile..................

[blueg33]

I have done some business with JB's manager who is a director of one of JB's investment vehicles - TBH I dont fancy JB's chances if his manager manages the deal