The Official 2015 Canadian Grand Prix thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
moanthebairns said:
Derek Smith said:
I struggle to understand some of these comments.
I seem to remember a fabulous battle which ended with a brave move by Massa around three successive corners.
I seem to remember Vettel having problems getting past Alonso. Twice. There were other battles, many of which the director caught.
If you looked at the lap times it was obvious that LH was having to manage the distance between him and NR. Sometimes the gap came down to 1 sec. He might have been playing with NR but I doubt it. He was, it appears, low of fuel and an earlier suggestion he had no problems should have read no problems if you keep it at this speed.
We had tyres that lasted 40 laps with little degradation, surely the wet dream of many on here.
F1 has always been a race of parts: there's the initial period where the drivers sort themselves out, then there's the tactical period, and then the end game. With just 20 cars on the grid we are always going to have limited options. Mind you, I don't see this changing all that much when Ferrari run four cars next season.
It was an enjoyable race, with some excitement at the front.
The shame was the short run into the first corner. If it had been a fair distance they KR would have taken NR and probably challenged for the lead. That would have made things fun for a while.
Not a great race, but the runs of Massa and Vettel were quite good.
Yes, your correct, it was entertaining. Everyone else who got bored, looked at their phone for most of it, or watched it while they ate their tea is wrong.I seem to remember a fabulous battle which ended with a brave move by Massa around three successive corners.
I seem to remember Vettel having problems getting past Alonso. Twice. There were other battles, many of which the director caught.
If you looked at the lap times it was obvious that LH was having to manage the distance between him and NR. Sometimes the gap came down to 1 sec. He might have been playing with NR but I doubt it. He was, it appears, low of fuel and an earlier suggestion he had no problems should have read no problems if you keep it at this speed.
We had tyres that lasted 40 laps with little degradation, surely the wet dream of many on here.
F1 has always been a race of parts: there's the initial period where the drivers sort themselves out, then there's the tactical period, and then the end game. With just 20 cars on the grid we are always going to have limited options. Mind you, I don't see this changing all that much when Ferrari run four cars next season.
It was an enjoyable race, with some excitement at the front.
The shame was the short run into the first corner. If it had been a fair distance they KR would have taken NR and probably challenged for the lead. That would have made things fun for a while.
Not a great race, but the runs of Massa and Vettel were quite good.
hairyben said:
even when they had disposable engines and unlimited tyres/fuel there was still a gap. perhaps even moreso with 12 laps & in-the-bin qually engines and one hot lap & bin qually tyres.
not so.2004, pole time 1:12.275 (Ralf Schumacher)
Fastest lap 1:13.622 (Rubens Barrichello)
2005, Pole time 1:15.217 (Jenson Button)
Fastest lap 1:14.384 (Kimi Räikkönen)
Scuffers said:
hairyben said:
even when they had disposable engines and unlimited tyres/fuel there was still a gap. perhaps even moreso with 12 laps & in-the-bin qually engines and one hot lap & bin qually tyres.
not so.2004, pole time 1:12.275 (Ralf Schumacher)
Fastest lap 1:13.622 (Rubens Barrichello)
2005, Pole time 1:15.217 (Jenson Button)
Fastest lap 1:14.384 (Kimi Räikkönen)
Scuffers said:
hairyben said:
even when they had disposable engines and unlimited tyres/fuel there was still a gap. perhaps even moreso with 12 laps & in-the-bin qually engines and one hot lap & bin qually tyres.
not so.2004, pole time 1:12.275 (Ralf Schumacher)
Fastest lap 1:13.622 (Rubens Barrichello)
2005, Pole time 1:15.217 (Jenson Button)
Fastest lap 1:14.384 (Kimi Räikkönen)
2004 had everyone lapped up to 4th place. Only 10 cars finished and that car was 4 laps down.
2005 everyone up to 6th lapped only 11 finishers.
Edited by London424 on Monday 8th June 13:50
Scuffers said:
hairyben said:
even when they had disposable engines and unlimited tyres/fuel there was still a gap. perhaps even moreso with 12 laps & in-the-bin qually engines and one hot lap & bin qually tyres.
not so.2004, pole time 1:12.275 (Ralf Schumacher)
Fastest lap 1:13.622 (Rubens Barrichello)
2005, Pole time 1:15.217 (Jenson Button)
Fastest lap 1:14.384 (Kimi Räikkönen)
Megaflow said:
That was hardly a golden era of racing. I couldn't think of much worse that going back to that.
never said it was, just showing that it's been the case in the past that quali times and fastest laps have been both ways round.these days, fastest lap is never going to be close to pole time (weather aside) because of tyres (as in by the time the fuel load is down, the tyres will be stuffed)
Vaud said:
JonRB said:
And the austerity measures on fuel and tyres are equally to blame as they force the "lift & coast" and "only drive at 80%" situation that has already been mentioned by others.
Does anyone know how much additional fuel would be negate the need for lift and coast at the current engine output?i.e. no more power, no change to fuel flow, but more fuel available, so that we reduce the constraining factors a little
I know each track varies, but would 10kg make the difference? 20? 30?
hard to answer as if they had more fuel available, at what point would the change mean changes in tyre strategy etc?
hard to know, this is the first race where we have seen them use all 100Kg's from memory...
IIRC 10kg of fuel is roughly worth 0.3s per lap.
If you go back to 2010 with no refuelling and rock hard tyres the cars were often marginally fuelled.
Edited by entropy on Monday 8th June 16:05
Vaud said:
Golden eras are generally a myth through rose tinted glasses.
Have to agree, if one of the moaners could actually tell us what era they are dreaming about then maybe we could discuss it better.I also feel like some think that if the drivers were going flat out then it would miraculously change the outcome. You will find Mercedes,Ferrari and Williams would probably still be the top 3 teams.
moanthebairns said:
Derek Smith said:
I struggle to understand some of these comments.
I seem to remember a fabulous battle which ended with a brave move by Massa around three successive corners.
I seem to remember Vettel having problems getting past Alonso. Twice. There were other battles, many of which the director caught.
If you looked at the lap times it was obvious that LH was having to manage the distance between him and NR. Sometimes the gap came down to 1 sec. He might have been playing with NR but I doubt it. He was, it appears, low of fuel and an earlier suggestion he had no problems should have read no problems if you keep it at this speed.
We had tyres that lasted 40 laps with little degradation, surely the wet dream of many on here.
F1 has always been a race of parts: there's the initial period where the drivers sort themselves out, then there's the tactical period, and then the end game. With just 20 cars on the grid we are always going to have limited options. Mind you, I don't see this changing all that much when Ferrari run four cars next season.
It was an enjoyable race, with some excitement at the front.
The shame was the short run into the first corner. If it had been a fair distance they KR would have taken NR and probably challenged for the lead. That would have made things fun for a while.
Not a great race, but the runs of Massa and Vettel were quite good.
Yes, your correct, it was entertaining. Everyone else who got bored, looked at their phone for most of it, or watched it while they ate their tea is wrong.I seem to remember a fabulous battle which ended with a brave move by Massa around three successive corners.
I seem to remember Vettel having problems getting past Alonso. Twice. There were other battles, many of which the director caught.
If you looked at the lap times it was obvious that LH was having to manage the distance between him and NR. Sometimes the gap came down to 1 sec. He might have been playing with NR but I doubt it. He was, it appears, low of fuel and an earlier suggestion he had no problems should have read no problems if you keep it at this speed.
We had tyres that lasted 40 laps with little degradation, surely the wet dream of many on here.
F1 has always been a race of parts: there's the initial period where the drivers sort themselves out, then there's the tactical period, and then the end game. With just 20 cars on the grid we are always going to have limited options. Mind you, I don't see this changing all that much when Ferrari run four cars next season.
It was an enjoyable race, with some excitement at the front.
The shame was the short run into the first corner. If it had been a fair distance they KR would have taken NR and probably challenged for the lead. That would have made things fun for a while.
Not a great race, but the runs of Massa and Vettel were quite good.
evenmoremoanthebairns said:
I just wonder, what kind of person finds that exciting. We all get car racing is boring for most, but who watches that and thinks, edge of seat stuff.
I turned on the TT half an hour later, guys doing the same distance flat out, mm away from walls, over jumps, knee down etc.
lift and coast, f
k sake, that's what I do on a track day when im
a) learning the track for the first time
b) to hungover from the night before to go for it
c) shat myself on full throttle the lap before
Anyone who has driven on track will tell you how easy it becomes if you lift and coast. I'm not for a second saying I could drive like these guys, I never will but for guys with talent like this, its essentially like getting out and walking round
Next time your doing a trackday, 50m before where you should be braking, come off the throttle, coast and see how easy it is for you now to make this corner.
F1 is a glorified trackday now. How anyone can watch that race and call it racing is beyond me. The only decent part was the massa tussle, and that lasted 3 corners.
All the other overtakes were done on drs and boring as fk, who wants to see someone straight-line pass.
The seasons that lots of moaners reminisce about never actually existed. There has always, but always, been a variation between races throughout each season.I turned on the TT half an hour later, guys doing the same distance flat out, mm away from walls, over jumps, knee down etc.
lift and coast, f
k sake, that's what I do on a track day when im a) learning the track for the first time
b) to hungover from the night before to go for it
c) shat myself on full throttle the lap before
Anyone who has driven on track will tell you how easy it becomes if you lift and coast. I'm not for a second saying I could drive like these guys, I never will but for guys with talent like this, its essentially like getting out and walking round
Next time your doing a trackday, 50m before where you should be braking, come off the throttle, coast and see how easy it is for you now to make this corner.
F1 is a glorified trackday now. How anyone can watch that race and call it racing is beyond me. The only decent part was the massa tussle, and that lasted 3 corners.
All the other overtakes were done on drs and boring as f
k, who wants to see someone straight-line pass.There was never a time when all drivers went flat out from the drop of the flag.
If you don't like the last few seasons then you are watching the wrong sport.
There is a lot wrong with the current rules and regulations, and F1 management seems to be doing its best to ruin the sport, but it hasn't succeeded yet. So enjoy it while you may.
F1 racing has been there for those who enjoy subtlety as well as wheel to wheel racing. Look beyond lap times to what's actually happening in front of your eyes, read Autosport and some of the more informed blogs.
We are witnessing one of the great teams, perhaps the second greatest in the history of F1, fall apart in front of our eyes. We see teams struggling to catch the dominating giant, and one of the minnows (comparatively) came third yesterday. We see teams sticking to racing despite being lapped any number of times, and a small incident with a thoughtless opponent has cost the team a fortune, one that it can't really afford.
There's drama all the way through the sport. If you can't see it, then you ain't looking.
As I said in my first, rather polite, post, the one that generated your rather sarcastic response, I struggle to understand some of these comments. If you don't like the sport as it is, which is generally as it always has been more or less, then the answer to your dissatisfaction is rather obvious.
If you want wheel to wheel racing every lap with bits of fibreglass shards littering the track, then there's always Ginetta Juniors.
I'm not saying the sport is perfect, far from it. It has been on self-destruct mode for some time. But the Canadian race has lots to interest the committed fan, with lots of action, especially at the final chicane.
You can laugh or cry at McLaren's problems, depending whether you are a committed fan or not. But drama it is. Edge of the seat stuff in some ways.
Alan-11oc0 said:
LordGrover said:
Maybe it's just info-overflow.
If we weren't given so much superfluous information we could concentrate on the racing instead of moaning about team orders, excessive 'deg', delta times, etc.
Thats a good point. If we weren't given so much superfluous information we could concentrate on the racing instead of moaning about team orders, excessive 'deg', delta times, etc.
in the old days they just drive till it broke,
then fingers crossed to get to the finish.
Derek Smith said:
moanthebairns said:
Derek Smith said:
I struggle to understand some of these comments.
I seem to remember a fabulous battle which ended with a brave move by Massa around three successive corners.
I seem to remember Vettel having problems getting past Alonso. Twice. There were other battles, many of which the director caught.
If you looked at the lap times it was obvious that LH was having to manage the distance between him and NR. Sometimes the gap came down to 1 sec. He might have been playing with NR but I doubt it. He was, it appears, low of fuel and an earlier suggestion he had no problems should have read no problems if you keep it at this speed.
We had tyres that lasted 40 laps with little degradation, surely the wet dream of many on here.
F1 has always been a race of parts: there's the initial period where the drivers sort themselves out, then there's the tactical period, and then the end game. With just 20 cars on the grid we are always going to have limited options. Mind you, I don't see this changing all that much when Ferrari run four cars next season.
It was an enjoyable race, with some excitement at the front.
The shame was the short run into the first corner. If it had been a fair distance they KR would have taken NR and probably challenged for the lead. That would have made things fun for a while.
Not a great race, but the runs of Massa and Vettel were quite good.
Yes, your correct, it was entertaining. Everyone else who got bored, looked at their phone for most of it, or watched it while they ate their tea is wrong.I seem to remember a fabulous battle which ended with a brave move by Massa around three successive corners.
I seem to remember Vettel having problems getting past Alonso. Twice. There were other battles, many of which the director caught.
If you looked at the lap times it was obvious that LH was having to manage the distance between him and NR. Sometimes the gap came down to 1 sec. He might have been playing with NR but I doubt it. He was, it appears, low of fuel and an earlier suggestion he had no problems should have read no problems if you keep it at this speed.
We had tyres that lasted 40 laps with little degradation, surely the wet dream of many on here.
F1 has always been a race of parts: there's the initial period where the drivers sort themselves out, then there's the tactical period, and then the end game. With just 20 cars on the grid we are always going to have limited options. Mind you, I don't see this changing all that much when Ferrari run four cars next season.
It was an enjoyable race, with some excitement at the front.
The shame was the short run into the first corner. If it had been a fair distance they KR would have taken NR and probably challenged for the lead. That would have made things fun for a while.
Not a great race, but the runs of Massa and Vettel were quite good.
evenmoremoanthebairns said:
I just wonder, what kind of person finds that exciting. We all get car racing is boring for most, but who watches that and thinks, edge of seat stuff.
I turned on the TT half an hour later, guys doing the same distance flat out, mm away from walls, over jumps, knee down etc.
lift and coast, fk sake, that's what I do on a track day when im
a) learning the track for the first time
b) to hungover from the night before to go for it
c) shat myself on full throttle the lap before
Anyone who has driven on track will tell you how easy it becomes if you lift and coast. I'm not for a second saying I could drive like these guys, I never will but for guys with talent like this, its essentially like getting out and walking round
Next time your doing a trackday, 50m before where you should be braking, come off the throttle, coast and see how easy it is for you now to make this corner.
F1 is a glorified trackday now. How anyone can watch that race and call it racing is beyond me. The only decent part was the massa tussle, and that lasted 3 corners.
All the other overtakes were done on drs and boring as fk, who wants to see someone straight-line pass.
The seasons that lots of moaners reminisce about never actually existed. There has always, but always, been a variation between races throughout each season.I turned on the TT half an hour later, guys doing the same distance flat out, mm away from walls, over jumps, knee down etc.
lift and coast, f
k sake, that's what I do on a track day when im a) learning the track for the first time
b) to hungover from the night before to go for it
c) shat myself on full throttle the lap before
Anyone who has driven on track will tell you how easy it becomes if you lift and coast. I'm not for a second saying I could drive like these guys, I never will but for guys with talent like this, its essentially like getting out and walking round
Next time your doing a trackday, 50m before where you should be braking, come off the throttle, coast and see how easy it is for you now to make this corner.
F1 is a glorified trackday now. How anyone can watch that race and call it racing is beyond me. The only decent part was the massa tussle, and that lasted 3 corners.
All the other overtakes were done on drs and boring as f
k, who wants to see someone straight-line pass.There was never a time when all drivers went flat out from the drop of the flag.
If you don't like the last few seasons then you are watching the wrong sport.
There is a lot wrong with the current rules and regulations, and F1 management seems to be doing its best to ruin the sport, but it hasn't succeeded yet. So enjoy it while you may.
F1 racing has been there for those who enjoy subtlety as well as wheel to wheel racing. Look beyond lap times to what's actually happening in front of your eyes, read Autosport and some of the more informed blogs.
We are witnessing one of the great teams, perhaps the second greatest in the history of F1, fall apart in front of our eyes. We see teams struggling to catch the dominating giant, and one of the minnows (comparatively) came third yesterday. We see teams sticking to racing despite being lapped any number of times, and a small incident with a thoughtless opponent has cost the team a fortune, one that it can't really afford.
There's drama all the way through the sport. If you can't see it, then you ain't looking.
As I said in my first, rather polite, post, the one that generated your rather sarcastic response, I struggle to understand some of these comments. If you don't like the sport as it is, which is generally as it always has been more or less, then the answer to your dissatisfaction is rather obvious.
If you want wheel to wheel racing every lap with bits of fibreglass shards littering the track, then there's always Ginetta Juniors.
I'm not saying the sport is perfect, far from it. It has been on self-destruct mode for some time. But the Canadian race has lots to interest the committed fan, with lots of action, especially at the final chicane.
You can laugh or cry at McLaren's problems, depending whether you are a committed fan or not. But drama it is. Edge of the seat stuff in some ways.
k fed up of the, oh in the good old days it was like this or it never was close etc.You're basically saying, its been s
t before, its st again, this is acceptable.Its a pathetic answer, burry you're head in the sand, wait for it to be all ok again. But it isn't going to be with, huge dwindling tv and attendance audiences, no sponsors and circuits not able to make money from it.
As for, read into it, get autosport, I ask you, I f
king asking you, get up of youre arse and watch moto gp this week. Who the fk wants to read about a race, why he never pitted etc, its all bks, you sound like a sad pathetic, stay at home virgin, you want to see 30 or 40 laps with guys fighting it out, every corner, every straight.That's motor racing, what you have described is world of war craft, or chess.
moanthebairns said:
I'm sick to fk fed up of the, oh in the good old days it was like this or it never was close etc.
You're basically saying, its been st before, its st again, this is acceptable.
Its a pathetic answer, burry you're head in the sand, wait for it to be all ok again. But it isn't going to be with, huge dwindling tv and attendance audiences, no sponsors and circuits not able to make money from it.
As for, read into it, get autosport, I ask you, I fking asking you, get up of youre arse and watch moto gp this week. Who the fk wants to read about a race, why he never pitted etc, its all bks, you sound like a sad pathetic, stay at home virgin, you want to see 30 or 40 laps with guys fighting it out, every corner, every straight.
That's motor racing, what you have described is world of war craft, or chess.
To be fair what you describe isn't moto gp it's moto3.k fed up of the, oh in the good old days it was like this or it never was close etc.You're basically saying, its been s
t before, its st again, this is acceptable.Its a pathetic answer, burry you're head in the sand, wait for it to be all ok again. But it isn't going to be with, huge dwindling tv and attendance audiences, no sponsors and circuits not able to make money from it.
As for, read into it, get autosport, I ask you, I f
king asking you, get up of youre arse and watch moto gp this week. Who the fk wants to read about a race, why he never pitted etc, its all bks, you sound like a sad pathetic, stay at home virgin, you want to see 30 or 40 laps with guys fighting it out, every corner, every straight.That's motor racing, what you have described is world of war craft, or chess.
moanthebairns said:
I'm sick to fk fed up of the, oh in the good old days it was like this or it never was close etc.
You're basically saying, its been st before, its st again, this is acceptable.
Its a pathetic answer, burry you're head in the sand, wait for it to be all ok again. But it isn't going to be with, huge dwindling tv and attendance audiences, no sponsors and circuits not able to make money from it.
As for, read into it, get autosport, I ask you, I fking asking you, get up of youre arse and watch moto gp this week. Who the fk wants to read about a race, why he never pitted etc, its all bks, you sound like a sad pathetic, stay at home virgin, you want to see 30 or 40 laps with guys fighting it out, every corner, every straight.
That's motor racing, what you have described is world of war craft, or chess.
Quite frankly, chap, I'd rather you got "up of youre arse" (Jesus, how hard is it to run a spell checker?) and bugger off to non-F1 threads rather than moaning on and on in a semi-literate way about how you hate F1. We get it. So why do you bother watching it? So you can have a good moan? k fed up of the, oh in the good old days it was like this or it never was close etc.You're basically saying, its been s
t before, its st again, this is acceptable.Its a pathetic answer, burry you're head in the sand, wait for it to be all ok again. But it isn't going to be with, huge dwindling tv and attendance audiences, no sponsors and circuits not able to make money from it.
As for, read into it, get autosport, I ask you, I f
king asking you, get up of youre arse and watch moto gp this week. Who the fk wants to read about a race, why he never pitted etc, its all bks, you sound like a sad pathetic, stay at home virgin, you want to see 30 or 40 laps with guys fighting it out, every corner, every straight.That's motor racing, what you have described is world of war craft, or chess.
moanthebairns said:
I should add that I assume you are not a 40 odd something, that stays at home with the folks, reading autosport, getting excited about tyre deg.
But it paints a picture of comic book guy from simpsons your post.
I'm too polite to say what your posts paint a picture of. But it paints a picture of comic book guy from simpsons your post.
Edited by JonRB on Monday 8th June 18:12
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