***** The Official Mexico Grand Prix thread *****

[NRS]

monamimate said:

NRS said:

You're trying to say we have less information that we used to have 30 years ago? That's just being silly. There is a reason there are so many articles on "too much information" or calling it the information age. How many hours of coverage are dedicated to F1 alone before/ after a race?

I was trying to make clear to him that the discussions here are based on the same few sentences that we could have had years ago. The last pages here refer to LH's comments about the team "being warm to Rosberg" and his comments during and after the race about changing tyres. The tens of pages of posts are just our interpretation of those comments. No more. Social media provides quantity, not to be confused with quality.

Edited by monamimate on Tuesday 3rd November 21:30

Thing is in the past we'd probably have not heard about that comment as there would have been much less reporting, and any reporting would have been much more "local" (only readers of a certain magazine). It's not just Lewis, but all the drivers have far more reported about them since we get more on their radio, more reporting before the race and more after. Before it would have been a few selected bits. Now it is a lot more. I doubt that Hamilton comment would have been reported before, since they would have mostly been covering the race summary. It would be stuff like when they crash or similar that would have been reported before.

[monamimate]

noell35 said:

monamimate said:

noell35 said:

monamimate said:

One can hardly compare the racing/ safety conditions of the mid 70s and today, nor is Hamilton (luckily) just recovering from a near-death accident only a few weeks earlier, so your point is moot.

Edited by monamimate on Tuesday 3rd November 20:28

And therefore you can hardly compare the drivers of the 70's and now so your own point is moot.

Oh dear, can no-one distinguish between an event and a mentality?

The example was simply to demonstrate that Lauda spoke his mind honestly and took responsibility while Hamilton whines and shirks responsibility. Those are qualities that have nothing to do with time or specific events.

I give up.

Hamilton is the greatest of all time, a perfect human being.

Edited by monamimate on Tuesday 3rd November 21:38

Why are you assuming I'm a Hamilton fan? I'm a fan of F1. My point is that your accusing someone of comparing apples to oranges while doing the same to bolster your point.

What exactly was your point BTW?

Can't remember - I think I just died of boredom.

[monamimate]

NRS said:

monamimate said:

NRS said:

You're trying to say we have less information that we used to have 30 years ago? That's just being silly. There is a reason there are so many articles on "too much information" or calling it the information age. How many hours of coverage are dedicated to F1 alone before/ after a race?

I was trying to make clear to him that the discussions here are based on the same few sentences that we could have had years ago. The last pages here refer to LH's comments about the team "being warm to Rosberg" and his comments during and after the race about changing tyres. The tens of pages of posts are just our interpretation of those comments. No more. Social media provides quantity, not to be confused with quality.

Edited by monamimate on Tuesday 3rd November 21:30

Thing is in the past we'd probably have not heard about that comment as there would have been much less reporting, and any reporting would have been much more "local" (only readers of a certain magazine). It's not just Lewis, but all the drivers have far more reported about them since we get more on their radio, more reporting before the race and more after. Before it would have been a few selected bits. Now it is a lot more. I doubt that Hamilton comment would have been reported before, since they would have mostly been covering the race summary. It would be stuff like when they crash or similar that would have been reported before.

You use the word "would" a lot, which leads me to assume that you did not actually experience that period of time. Before we had the internet, we had television, magazines, radio, newspapers, each with their own journalists. So yes, we did get to read all those comments. It wasn't the dark ages, you know. The big difference was that the analysis was done by experienced professionals, not a bunch of amateurs like us on PH relying on second-had info...``

Anyway, enough of this, I have taken up far too much space already.

Edited by monamimate on Tuesday 3rd November 22:53

[noell35]

monamimate said:

Can't remember - I think I just died of boredom.

Self induced

[_Leg_]

longblackcoat said:

Wrong again. Susie Wolff would be my pick.

Youve little going on in your life have you.

[Smollet]

monamimate said:

For all Senna's faults (and he had a few) there was a brazen in-your-face honesty about everything he did. He did not seem concerned about political correctness or upsetting sponsors. Maybe that was part of his appeal?

Yes he was very honest about taking Prost out at Suzuka wasn't he. It was only a year later he came clean with the truth and not the lies he said after the race.

[longblackcoat]

_Leg_ said:

longblackcoat said:

Wrong again. Susie Wolff would be my pick.

Youve little going on in your life have you.

One name, two words, and youve (sic) managed to mis-spell both of them.

Chapeau!

[Vaud]

Drinks? Sebastian, Jenson, Pastor and Taki.

[VolvoT5]

London424 said:

It sounds like the guy can't win with some people.

If he speaks his mind he's petulent/arrogant. If he stays quiet he's a corporate drone with no personality.

The problem is when he 'speaks his mind' he says the most stupid and/or offensive things.

For example:
“I’ve never done the things that Michael did to win my titles,” the Briton is quoted as saying. “I won mine with my natural abilities only.”

^ I actually heard the above interview snippet via twitter but unfortunately didn't save the tweet - it comes across even worse when you actually hear him say it.

[Europa1]

Vaud said:

Drinks? Sebastian, Jenson, Pastor and Taki.

Of the current crop, I'd say Sebastian Vettel, Jenson Button and Daniel Riccardio could make for an entertaining evening.

[longblackcoat]

VolvoT5 said:

London424 said:

It sounds like the guy can't win with some people.

If he speaks his mind he's petulent/arrogant. If he stays quiet he's a corporate drone with no personality.

The problem is when he 'speaks his mind' he says the most stupid and/or offensive things.

For example:
“I’ve never done the things that Michael did to win my titles,” the Briton is quoted as saying. “I won mine with my natural abilities only.”

^ I actually heard the above interview snippet via twitter but unfortunately didn't save the tweet - it comes across even worse when you actually hear him say it.

Well, he won with his natural talent and a bloody good car, but he didn't punt someone off mid-corner as Schumacher did to Hill, did he? He's never stopped a qiualifying session at Monaco to ensure he had pole, either. Nor has he had the advantages that a traction control system of highly dubiously legality gave over all the others.

Hamilton's a winner, and has that natural self-belief that all the the best drivers need to have. And he has supreme racing skills; anyone saying otherwise needs to watch more closely.

That said, it goes the other way. Schumacher didn't just win with natural abilitiers, whereas that's all that Hamilton seems to have. One of Schumacher's fantastic abilities was the way he could control a team so that it focussed on him and pretty much him alone, which Hamilton has yet to do. And Schumacher seemed to be very tuned in politically, which again Hamilton isn't. He simply doesn't have the skillset that Schumacher had; though I think as a pure racer he's better, when it comes to all-round dominance Schumacher wins that contest hands-dowm.

[RichB]

longblackcoat said:

VolvoT5 said:

London424 said:

It sounds like the guy can't win with some people.

If he speaks his mind he's petulent/arrogant. If he stays quiet he's a corporate drone with no personality.

The problem is when he 'speaks his mind' he says the most stupid and/or offensive things.

For example:
“I’ve never done the things that Michael did to win my titles,” the Briton is quoted as saying. “I won mine with my natural abilities only.”

^ I actually heard the above interview snippet via twitter but unfortunately didn't save the tweet - it comes across even worse when you actually hear him say it.

Well, he won with his natural talent and a bloody good car, but he didn't punt someone off mid-corner as Schumacher did to Hill, did he? He's never stopped a qiualifying session at Monaco to ensure he had pole, either. Nor has he had the advantages that a traction control system of highly dubiously legality gave over all the others.

Schumacher also took a punt at Villeneuve the following season but as Martin Brundle said "You've hit the wrong part!" Schumacher also had his team mates pulling over to allow him to win races when he would otherwise have finished 2nd. No one can deny that he was a top driver but certainly a flawed talent so I could not rank him as one of my all time greats.

[longblackcoat]

RichB said:

longblackcoat said:

VolvoT5 said:

London424 said:

It sounds like the guy can't win with some people.

If he speaks his mind he's petulent/arrogant. If he stays quiet he's a corporate drone with no personality.

The problem is when he 'speaks his mind' he says the most stupid and/or offensive things.

For example:
“I’ve never done the things that Michael did to win my titles,” the Briton is quoted as saying. “I won mine with my natural abilities only.”

^ I actually heard the above interview snippet via twitter but unfortunately didn't save the tweet - it comes across even worse when you actually hear him say it.

Well, he won with his natural talent and a bloody good car, but he didn't punt someone off mid-corner as Schumacher did to Hill, did he? He's never stopped a qiualifying session at Monaco to ensure he had pole, either. Nor has he had the advantages that a traction control system of highly dubiously legality gave over all the others.

Schumacher also took a punt at Villeneuve the following season but as Martin Brundle said "You've hit the wrong part!" Schumacher also had his team mates pulling over to allow him to win races when he would otherwise have finished 2nd. No one can deny that he was a top driver but certainly a flawed talent so I could not rank him as one of my all time greats.

Agreed. I imagine the point that Hamilton was trying to make was along those lines, but even so, Schumacher was so much more than a driver. For me, he's the most complete driver there's ever been. Boring as fk and not averse to cheating, but then he didn't care about that. It was all about the win.

[IainT]

monamimate said:

Lewis often comes over as a petty whiner rather than as a heroic figure. Even now, after winning 3 WDC, he's whingeing about the team "being warm" to Rosberg! Hardly inspiring stuff, is it?

That's totally your spin on it - your opinion through your clearly biased view. Some of us have different biases and choose to interpret those comments as something other than "whingeing". Nico does similar in return but, to me, in a really whiney tone, particularly after a completely fair move in Austin at T1.

He's right though the team is supporting Nico and trying to keep him happy. Teams do that with drivers, they do it with Lewis, Ferrari do it with Seb and Kimi.

I'm not sure I'd choose to hold any F1 drivers, past or present, up as heroes in the grand scheme of things - heroic to me is cheapened by such use - but 'petty whiner' in comparison to Nico is quite amusing.

[noell35]

Europa1 said:

Vaud said:

Drinks? Sebastian, Jenson, Pastor and Taki.

Of the current crop, I'd say Sebastian Vettel, Jenson Button and Daniel Riccardio could make for an entertaining evening.

Rosberg, Alonso, Horner narrated by Dave Lamb

Come whinge with me.

[monamimate]

IainT said:

That's totally your spin on it - your opinion through your clearly biased view. Some of us have different biases and choose to interpret those comments as something other than "whingeing".

Indeed, so what's the problem? I never claimed it was anything other than my opinion. Free world etc

[monamimate]

IainT said:

He's right though the team is supporting Nico and trying to keep him happy. Teams do that with drivers, they do it with Lewis, Ferrari do it with Seb and Kimi.

My point exactly (I made it earlier somewhere): teams all look after their drivers. So why is he making such a thing about it...

From BBC F1 site:
"I know the team has felt the need to be extra warm [to Rosberg]."

Pushed to elaborate, the 30-year-old said: "I do know what I mean but I'm not going to say what I mean. You should ask Toto Wolff [Mercedes team boss] and Niki Lauda [Mercedes non-executive chairman].

"You should put those questions to them about how they feel about it, and what they have to do behind the scenes to keep him happy."

Because Lewis has never need any special attention to be kept happy...no, none?

"I do know what I mean but I'm not going to say what I mean"... If that's not whining!? Sounds like what a child would say, not a recently crowned 3x WDC...

[Mr_Thyroid]

monamimate said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

We'll never known unless he does it. I think you're implying that Hamilton would lie about a similar situation - I can't imagine he would do the same because he wouldn't pull out of a race for those reasons - in wet conditions behind the safety car he's usually the first one saying "it's fine - let's go racing".

One can hardly compare the racing/ safety conditions of the mid 70s and today, nor is Hamilton (luckily) just recovering from a near-death accident only a few weeks earlier, so your point is moot.

Edited by monamimate on Tuesday 3rd November 20:28

erm..... therefore I fail to see any point in your point

[RichB]

Mr_Thyroid said:

monamimate said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

We'll never known unless he does it. I think you're implying that Hamilton would lie about a similar situation - I can't imagine he would do the same because he wouldn't pull out of a race for those reasons - in wet conditions behind the safety car he's usually the first one saying "it's fine - let's go racing".

One can hardly compare the racing/ safety conditions of the mid 70s and today, nor is Hamilton (luckily) just recovering from a near-death accident only a few weeks earlier, so your point is moot.

erm..... therefore I fail to see any point in your point

other then to get another dig at Hamilton it's pointless.

[monamimate]

RichB said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

monamimate said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

We'll never known unless he does it. I think you're implying that Hamilton would lie about a similar situation - I can't imagine he would do the same because he wouldn't pull out of a race for those reasons - in wet conditions behind the safety car he's usually the first one saying "it's fine - let's go racing".

One can hardly compare the racing/ safety conditions of the mid 70s and today, nor is Hamilton (luckily) just recovering from a near-death accident only a few weeks earlier, so your point is moot.

erm..... therefore I fail to see any point in your point

other then to get another dig at Hamilton it's pointless.

Reading and comprehension not your strongest suits eh chaps.

Well, I guess it was naive of me to think I might influence the fanboys.