Slightly different footage of Senna's crash...
Discussion
ELUSIVEJIM said:
If Senna had crashed on the first lap after the safety car then you could state the tyre pressures or the tyres were cold but Senna did a full racing lap before his accident.
The pressures and tyres would have been perfect.
Not after one lap.The pressures and tyres would have been perfect.
Damon Hill was still being very circumspect as he felt the car was trying to get away from him.
Tyre pressure and temperatures were only two of the issues they were having to contend with.
Eric Mc said:
After the crash at the Italian GP of 1961 which claimed the life of Wolfgang Von Tripps and 14 spectators, the Italian authorities issued a warrant for the arrest of Colin Chapman.
They also tried the same after the 1970 crash that killed Jochen Rindt.
When you think of all the accidents involving Alfa Romeos, Ferraris and Maseratis and how many times did the Italian courts try to detaim Enzo Ferrari or the other Italian team bosses?
Enzo Ferrari did receive censure back in the day, but I think it was from the Pope - not sure about any legal attempts against him.They also tried the same after the 1970 crash that killed Jochen Rindt.
When you think of all the accidents involving Alfa Romeos, Ferraris and Maseratis and how many times did the Italian courts try to detaim Enzo Ferrari or the other Italian team bosses?
It was a Ferrari that went into the crowd on the last Mille Miglia, but it was possibly after Monza and von Trips that there was a bust-up between Ferrari and the Catholic church.
I have a photo which whilst i have no proof, only the word of a security guard as the car is under a cover, i am certain is of the car only a few months after the crash at Didcot that i took as a child ie way before it is stated that they ever recieved the car back.
Either the security guard lied to me, he did not seem that kind of chap and had a lot of knowledge of the site.
Or the photo is truly of the car tucked away in a corner of the factory and for some reason this has forever been denied by others.
Either the security guard lied to me, he did not seem that kind of chap and had a lot of knowledge of the site.
Or the photo is truly of the car tucked away in a corner of the factory and for some reason this has forever been denied by others.
amgmcqueen said:
The fact is there is only one person who knows what really happened and he is sadly no longer with us.
The rest is just pure speculation.
I'd agree with this - which makes it odd that Eric Mc's has his absolute 100% certainty that it was not a steering failure, we don't know and you'd have to keep an open mind on this there are too many question marks for it to be 100% anything. The rest is just pure speculation.
It's interesting We are still talking about this 22 years after the (very sad) day it happened.
Sheetmaself said:
I have a photo which whilst i have no proof, only the word of a security guard as the car is under a cover, i am certain is of the car only a few months after the crash at Didcot that i took as a child ie way before it is stated that they ever recieved the car back.
Either the security guard lied to me, he did not seem that kind of chap and had a lot of knowledge of the site.
Or the photo is truly of the car tucked away in a corner of the factory and for some reason this has forever been denied by others.
There was more than 1 tub that Senna drove that was taken out of use, you may have seen one of the others.Either the security guard lied to me, he did not seem that kind of chap and had a lot of knowledge of the site.
Or the photo is truly of the car tucked away in a corner of the factory and for some reason this has forever been denied by others.
I believe that the other tub may be in the picture as well, see this thread from a while back
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=942...
Again i have no proof apart from i was told at the time, but all hree of us that were there remember the same story being told to us.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=942...
Again i have no proof apart from i was told at the time, but all hree of us that were there remember the same story being told to us.
rallycross said:
I'd agree with this - which makes it odd that Eric Mc's has his absolute 100% certainty that it was not a steering failure, we don't know and you'd have to keep an open mind on this there are too many question marks for it to be 100% anything.
It's interesting We are still talking about this 22 years after the (very sad) day it happened.
Because it's a seminal moment in the history of motor sport and it was possibly the beginning of its gradual slide into irrelevance - which F1 in particular seems to be doing now.It's interesting We are still talking about this 22 years after the (very sad) day it happened.
And I don't have 100% certainty about the cause of the accident. All I can go in is what I saw on TV at the time, what I've seen subsequently and what people who were there and were following on the track. i.e. Damon Hill have also said.
I certainly would place not a jot of credence on anything stated by an Italian judge.
Sheetmaself said:
I believe that the other tub may be in the picture as well, see this thread from a while back
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=942...
Again i have no proof apart from i was told at the time, but all hree of us that were there remember the same story being told to us.
The car was released from the Italian Court and returned to Williams March 14 2002http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=942...
Again i have no proof apart from i was told at the time, but all hree of us that were there remember the same story being told to us.
http://www.ayrton-senna.com/s-files/noticebd.html
Derek Smith said:
F1GTRUeno said:
I believe that would be key to knowing. If they both had the same modification to the steering column (something that Senna requested for himself to be more comfortable in the car) then the steering column argument doesn't hold too much water, but if they only did it (and I'm pretty sure it's the case) to Senna's car and in such a hasty manner, something that has been admitted by Newey and several other Williams employees then it's not a surprise if it failed before the crash.
It is unknown when the steering column failed. The engineers might have done the welding as quickly as they could, but an emotive word like hasty is not the one I would have used. Williams had engineers at the peak of their skills. Like Senna, none of them were perfect, but then they were doing a simple cut and shut job that is meat and drink to any mechanic. Edited by F1GTRUeno on Monday 9th January 01:10
Adrian Newey said:
“There’s no doubt that the steering column failed and the big question was whether it failed in the accident or did it cause the accident? It had fatigue cracks in it and it would have failed at some point. There is no question that its design was very poor..”
Given the timing, the fact that Senna had no points and was very demanding and the shock of Schumacher winning the first two races easily, I reckon the mood in the Williams camp was on edge. A hasty hack and slash at the steering column to meet Ayrton's demands wouldn't be out of the question.'Senna did not like the position of the steering column relative to his seating position and had repeatedly asked for it to be changed. Patrick Head and Adrian Newey agreed to Senna’s request to lengthen the FW16′s steering column, but there was no time to manufacture a longer steering shaft. The existing shaft was instead cut, extended by inserting a smaller-diameter piece of tubing and welded together with reinforcing plates'
jsf said:
Sheetmaself said:
I believe that the other tub may be in the picture as well, see this thread from a while back
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=942...
Again i have no proof apart from i was told at the time, but all hree of us that were there remember the same story being told to us.
The car was released from the Italian Court and returned to Williams March 14 2002http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=942...
Again i have no proof apart from i was told at the time, but all hree of us that were there remember the same story being told to us.
http://www.ayrton-senna.com/s-files/noticebd.html
Please note i am not giving this as fact as i have no proof at all, but it has never sat right with me what we have been told vs what my family was told.
jsf said:
Sheetmaself said:
I have a photo which whilst i have no proof, only the word of a security guard as the car is under a cover, i am certain is of the car only a few months after the crash at Didcot that i took as a child ie way before it is stated that they ever recieved the car back.
Either the security guard lied to me, he did not seem that kind of chap and had a lot of knowledge of the site.
Or the photo is truly of the car tucked away in a corner of the factory and for some reason this has forever been denied by others.
There was more than 1 tub that Senna drove that was taken out of use, you may have seen one of the others.Either the security guard lied to me, he did not seem that kind of chap and had a lot of knowledge of the site.
Or the photo is truly of the car tucked away in a corner of the factory and for some reason this has forever been denied by others.
Re the footage, the story IIRC at the time was that the tv producers were switching from Senna's camera feed, the switch failed to occur, the producers attempted again and the switch happened, thus we ended up with more than we should have.
I don't think back in '94 the cameras were recording and storing, I don't think they had that technology at the time, the cameras just provided feeds.
Eta: Does nobody have an opinion on why Senna's car appears to turn right in the footage from Schumacher's in-car footage? I'd have though if the steering column had broken this wouldn't have been possible, Senna's car certainly doesn't appear to have gone straight on as it did with Berger some years before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXKTGz9txTw
That crash also happened due to an aero failure, some minor damage to his front wing iirc.
I don't think back in '94 the cameras were recording and storing, I don't think they had that technology at the time, the cameras just provided feeds.
Eta: Does nobody have an opinion on why Senna's car appears to turn right in the footage from Schumacher's in-car footage? I'd have though if the steering column had broken this wouldn't have been possible, Senna's car certainly doesn't appear to have gone straight on as it did with Berger some years before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXKTGz9txTw
That crash also happened due to an aero failure, some minor damage to his front wing iirc.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 10th January 12:34
heebeegeetee said:
Re the footage, the story IIRC at the time was that the tv producers were switching from Senna's camera feed, the switch failed to occur, the producers attempted again and the switch happened, thus we ended up with more than we should have.
I don't think back in '94 the cameras were recording and storing, I don't think they had that technology at the time, the cameras just provided feeds.
Eta: Does nobody have an opinion on why Senna's car appears to turn right in the footage from Schumacher's in-car footage? I'd have though if the steering column had broken this wouldn't have been possible, Senna's car certainly doesn't appear to have gone straight on as it did with Berger some years before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXKTGz9txTw
That crash also happened due to an aero failure, some minor damage to his front wing iirc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qYXVfY_9IEI don't think back in '94 the cameras were recording and storing, I don't think they had that technology at the time, the cameras just provided feeds.
Eta: Does nobody have an opinion on why Senna's car appears to turn right in the footage from Schumacher's in-car footage? I'd have though if the steering column had broken this wouldn't have been possible, Senna's car certainly doesn't appear to have gone straight on as it did with Berger some years before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXKTGz9txTw
That crash also happened due to an aero failure, some minor damage to his front wing iirc.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 10th January 12:34
I still do not see Senna's car stepping out before the car head towards the wall.
He is about to exit tamburello when the car clear just goes straight on.
Tamburello was a long curve and not even a corner as such. Without a car issue the corner was easily flat out.
Name one driver who lost it at Tamburello with a driving error. They were all mechanical or due to a coming together.
Sheetmaself said:
jsf said:
Sheetmaself said:
I believe that the other tub may be in the picture as well, see this thread from a while back
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=942...
Again i have no proof apart from i was told at the time, but all hree of us that were there remember the same story being told to us.
The car was released from the Italian Court and returned to Williams March 14 2002http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=942...
Again i have no proof apart from i was told at the time, but all hree of us that were there remember the same story being told to us.
http://www.ayrton-senna.com/s-files/noticebd.html
Please note i am not giving this as fact as i have no proof at all, but it has never sat right with me what we have been told vs what my family was told.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff