The Official 2014 Italian GP Thread ***Spoilers***
Discussion
Norfolkit said:
Mojocvh said:
suffolk009 said:
Slidingpillar said:
With my tinfoil hat firmly in place, anyone else reckon Nico overshot the chicane on purpose? And now have done that, back as before. With him still in the lead for drivers championship.
Crofty on sky just raised that point too.
t if he raised it, I didn't see the Sky coverage as we were at the race. The whole weekend drivers were doing exactly what Rosberg did at that chicane, GP3, GP2 and F1 it happened time after time in practice, quali and race.What I would say is what a fantastic atmosphere there was at the track and in Monza after the race, brilliant, brilliant weekend.
Inertiatic said:
Rosberg has form for mistakes under pressure - similar thing happened in Canada and I'm sure he has outbraked himself elsewhere as well. You could see it coming when Hamilton started catching him quickly after the pit stops. No tin foil hat here.
Excellent race. Bottas and Ricciardo are stars and even the McLarens looked up there. Perez held on well under pressure. Massa had a quiet afternoon for once and subsequently podiumed...
Excellent race, as you say.Excellent race. Bottas and Ricciardo are stars and even the McLarens looked up there. Perez held on well under pressure. Massa had a quiet afternoon for once and subsequently podiumed...
And to reemphasise, I don't think NR conceded the lead deliberately. The only reason I mentioned it was because my friend tweets and told me about the hysteria there and he felt it was a laugh. The question we looked at was whether we felt it likely/logical.
I agree that NR has a bit of difficulty with locking up. It cost him, and his team, a win at Spa. There he wasn't under any pressure, apart from having taken his team mate off of course. I would assume he realised that wasn't going to make him the toast of the team. He might even have been worried about becoming toast.
The thing people are forgetting with this conspiracy theory stuff is that team orders are allowed at the moment. If Nico had been told that he has to give up a win for Lewis at some point this season as a punishment then why wouldn't he give the place up in a very obvious manner.
At the moment the big talk of the season is "Who has the measure of whom?". As a driver who not only wants to win the championship, but also win his place in history as a deserving champion, why would Nico want people to think that the moment he comes under pressure from his team mate he out brakes himself and loses the battle before it starts.
If he has to give the place up (which I don't believe for a second was the case) he has three options:
1) Fail to defend a overtake from Lewis - Fans point out that he isn't as good as Lewis at balls out racing
2) Deliberately make a mistake which lets Lewis passed - Fans say that he's broken mentally and kind cope with the pressure of racing wheel to wheel with Lewis
3) Pull up and give the place up to Lewis along a straight - Perfectly legal and everyone knows it was an order from the team.
I know the fans would go mad at yet again being denied the opportunity of seeing these two guys battle it out. But the anger would be directed at the team as a whole.
At the moment the big talk of the season is "Who has the measure of whom?". As a driver who not only wants to win the championship, but also win his place in history as a deserving champion, why would Nico want people to think that the moment he comes under pressure from his team mate he out brakes himself and loses the battle before it starts.
If he has to give the place up (which I don't believe for a second was the case) he has three options:
1) Fail to defend a overtake from Lewis - Fans point out that he isn't as good as Lewis at balls out racing
2) Deliberately make a mistake which lets Lewis passed - Fans say that he's broken mentally and kind cope with the pressure of racing wheel to wheel with Lewis
3) Pull up and give the place up to Lewis along a straight - Perfectly legal and everyone knows it was an order from the team.
I know the fans would go mad at yet again being denied the opportunity of seeing these two guys battle it out. But the anger would be directed at the team as a whole.
I was watching the BBC, and was surprised to hear NR,during LH charge behind, at one point tell his race engineer,who was giving NR information,''I don't want to know how fast Lewis is catching me, don't tell me''
My wife, and I thought this sounded like a person very much up against it, so to speak..
I also smiled when LH race engineer told Lewis ''It's hammer time''
Riciardo,is having a ball, I would say,nice to see the dummy passes he pulled.
My wife, and I thought this sounded like a person very much up against it, so to speak..
I also smiled when LH race engineer told Lewis ''It's hammer time''
Riciardo,is having a ball, I would say,nice to see the dummy passes he pulled.
zoom star said:
I was watching the BBC, and was surprised to hear NR,during LH charge behind, at one point tell his race engineer,who was giving NR information,''I don't want to know how fast Lewis is catching me, don't tell me''
My wife, and I thought this sounded like a person very much up against it, so to speak..
I also smiled when LH race engineer told Lewis ''It's hammer time''
Riciardo,is having a ball, I would say,nice to see the dummy passes he pulled.
The demeanour of both Merc drivers pre, during and post the Monza race somehow does not ring true to me. Quite puzzling. Why would any "competing" driver NOT want to know information like that? Most odd.My wife, and I thought this sounded like a person very much up against it, so to speak..
I also smiled when LH race engineer told Lewis ''It's hammer time''
Riciardo,is having a ball, I would say,nice to see the dummy passes he pulled.
BlimeyCharlie said:
If Mercedes wanted Nico Rosberg to let Hamilton through, the easy way would be a slow pit stop, with Niki and Toto actually changing the wheels.
"Need to know" basis ~ the fewer the better.zoom star said:
I was watching the BBC, and was surprised to hear NR,during LH charge behind, at one point tell his race engineer,who was giving NR information,''I don't want to know how fast Lewis is catching me, don't tell me''
My wife, and I thought this sounded like a person very much up against it, so to speak..
I also smiled when LH race engineer told Lewis ''It's hammer time''
Riciardo,is having a ball, I would say,nice to see the dummy passes he pulled.
I felt it a bit odd as well. That said, perhaps he felt it compromised his concentration. If he was driving as fast as he could, then what use was the information? If you are being chased by a tiger, what's the point in looking behind you? It is just a case of RLF.My wife, and I thought this sounded like a person very much up against it, so to speak..
I also smiled when LH race engineer told Lewis ''It's hammer time''
Riciardo,is having a ball, I would say,nice to see the dummy passes he pulled.
However, the reply seemed to accept that LH would close.
It was a shame the pursuit didn't last longer. I felt a bit cheated at the time.
Derek Smith said:
I felt it a bit odd as well. That said, perhaps he felt it compromised his concentration. If he was driving as fast as he could, then what use was the information?
Exactly. He wants to concentrate on his own driving. And when he sees a Merc in his mirrors, he knows he has to defend.Let's face it, these Mercs are having brake problems quite frequently (and they are not alone), it is not hard to believe Nico made an error.
I find any suggestion of the deliberate mistake by NR pretty ridiculous.
Someone fighting for their first world title would not even entertain it.
You think merc wants to also play these games!
Look, he went too pushy in belguim. Not the first and not the last teammate to hit one another. But it's hardly something he needed actively punishing over. Hamilton isn't exactly innocent when it comes to squeezing people wide. Perhaps a bit more thinking on his part could have avoided the accident. But I'm not here bashing either in the silly arguments that go on here. Nor am I particularly a NR fan I might add.
If Lewis hadn't come back and NR hadn't cocked up, all the talk would be of merc fixing Hamiltons car to be slow off the line. Whatever happens, there is always someone thinking something's been rigged.
Someone fighting for their first world title would not even entertain it.
You think merc wants to also play these games!
Look, he went too pushy in belguim. Not the first and not the last teammate to hit one another. But it's hardly something he needed actively punishing over. Hamilton isn't exactly innocent when it comes to squeezing people wide. Perhaps a bit more thinking on his part could have avoided the accident. But I'm not here bashing either in the silly arguments that go on here. Nor am I particularly a NR fan I might add.
If Lewis hadn't come back and NR hadn't cocked up, all the talk would be of merc fixing Hamiltons car to be slow off the line. Whatever happens, there is always someone thinking something's been rigged.
Edited by DS240 on Monday 8th September 11:22
I find any suggestion of the deliberate mistake by NR pretty ridiculous.
Someone fighting for their first world title would not even entertain it.
You think merc wants to also play these games!
Look, he went too pushy in belguim. Not the first and not the last teammate to hit one another. But it's hardly something he needed actively punishing over. Hamilton isn't exactly innocent when it comes to squeezing people wide. Perhaps a bit more thinking on his part could have avoided the accident. But I'm not here bashing either in the silly arguments that go on here. Nor am I particularly a NR fan I might add.
If Lewis hadn't come back and NR hadn't cocked up, all the talk would be of merc fixing Hamiltons car to be slow off the line. Whatever happens, there is always someone thinking something's been rigged.
Someone fighting for their first world title would not even entertain it.
You think merc wants to also play these games!
Look, he went too pushy in belguim. Not the first and not the last teammate to hit one another. But it's hardly something he needed actively punishing over. Hamilton isn't exactly innocent when it comes to squeezing people wide. Perhaps a bit more thinking on his part could have avoided the accident. But I'm not here bashing either in the silly arguments that go on here. Nor am I particularly a NR fan I might add.
If Lewis hadn't come back and NR hadn't cocked up, all the talk would be of merc fixing Hamiltons car to be slow off the line. Whatever happens, there is always someone thinking something's been rigged.
Edited by DS240 on Monday 8th September 11:54
MGJohn said:
Why would any "competing" driver NOT want to know information like that?
Simple really - if you know he's closing and are feeling the pressure and unable to respond being reminded that you're not up to the task is just going to add to the pressure and be a distraction.He could see Lewis behind him and that he was gaining.
Totally different being kept aware of a gap to a driver in front/behind when they're not in sight though.
You've no good evidence of a conspiracy but that doesn't seem to stop you flogging it.
DS240 said:
I find any suggestion of the deliberate mistake by NR pretty ridiculous.
Someone fighting for their first world title would not even entertain it.
You think merc wants to also play these games!
Look, he went too pushy in belguim. Not the first and not the last teammate to hit one another. But it's hardly something he needed actively punishing over. Hamilton isn't exactly innocent when it comes to squeezing people wide. Perhaps a bit more thinking on his part could have avoided the accident. But I'm not here bashing either in the silly arguments that go on here. Nor am I particularly a NR fan I might add.
If Lewis hadn't come back and NR hadn't cocked up, all the talk would be of merc fixing Hamiltons car to be slow off the line. Whatever happens, there is always someone thinking something's been rigged.
Yup. LH was faster all weekend and is an aggressive little bugger. The title is NR's to lose at this point and he knows that despite LH being arguably a better racer that he is the calmer more steady of the two and this is still a big advantage.Someone fighting for their first world title would not even entertain it.
You think merc wants to also play these games!
Look, he went too pushy in belguim. Not the first and not the last teammate to hit one another. But it's hardly something he needed actively punishing over. Hamilton isn't exactly innocent when it comes to squeezing people wide. Perhaps a bit more thinking on his part could have avoided the accident. But I'm not here bashing either in the silly arguments that go on here. Nor am I particularly a NR fan I might add.
If Lewis hadn't come back and NR hadn't cocked up, all the talk would be of merc fixing Hamiltons car to be slow off the line. Whatever happens, there is always someone thinking something's been rigged.
Edited by DS240 on Monday 8th September 11:22
However, NR got spooked when LH was reeling him in. It's quite clear that he wasn't relishing a toe to toe, wheel to wheel series of laps as he has done in earlier races and the thought of LH bashing past was clearly taking a little bit of his attention, enough for him to make a tiny error that others had been making all weekend.
It was just very similar to when Button spooked Vettel off the track in Canada the other year. The slightest deviation from 100% focus on that split second is going to massively increase the odds on an error. Just look at the few times MS went off the track while leading by a mile as he got bored and his focus wandered for a split second.
There is a nasty side to LH and I suspect that Button will transpire to be the first and last relatively equal partner to ever handle it well. But I like LH's little nasty side. It makes a refreshing change to see a Brit not talking about it being the taking part that matters. It is all about the winning and it makes great entertainment to watch LH as he is almost certainly the fastest racer alongside Alonso but he does suffer from mild bouts of Maldonardoism.
That was an enjoyable race to watch yesterday. Lots of good driving and contests. I liked Ricciardo's couple of dummies!
Coulthard made the comment a few times in commentary that he couldn't emphasise enough how difficult it is to brake (well) from 220mph into the first chicane. It's hardly a surprise to see a few drivers were not as good as others at it.
Amazing that it was Alonso's first DNF car failure in 5 years??!!
Coulthard made the comment a few times in commentary that he couldn't emphasise enough how difficult it is to brake (well) from 220mph into the first chicane. It's hardly a surprise to see a few drivers were not as good as others at it.
Amazing that it was Alonso's first DNF car failure in 5 years??!!
I'm 50/50 on whether ROS deliberately let Lewis make the pass. However, I just can't see Mercedes as a team being behind that kind of gung-ho move.
As already mentioned a poor pitstop would allow the same result in a more controlled and safe way. As would imaginary tyres going off or imaginary fuel saving needed. The no-brake-slalom-rejoin track move is pretty dangerous and could have potentially cost the constructor 17 points.
All in all I think that if ROS did let Lewis through it was something he decided to do himself rather than with the blessing/instruction of the team overall.
All that said I think it was probably just what it was - a lad who has had a week of bad media attention letting things get on top of him.
As already mentioned a poor pitstop would allow the same result in a more controlled and safe way. As would imaginary tyres going off or imaginary fuel saving needed. The no-brake-slalom-rejoin track move is pretty dangerous and could have potentially cost the constructor 17 points.
All in all I think that if ROS did let Lewis through it was something he decided to do himself rather than with the blessing/instruction of the team overall.
All that said I think it was probably just what it was - a lad who has had a week of bad media attention letting things get on top of him.
JonRB said:
I don't have a problem with him. I think he's been one of the best commentators we've had for years.
Crofty's fine except for all the mistakes. Tens of them in every race. He can't figure out which driver is which even when it is plainly obvious to those of us at home, and he surely has better data to work from. speedysoprano said:
Crofty's fine except for all the mistakes. Tens of them in every race. He can't figure out which driver is which even when it is plainly obvious to those of us at home, and he surely has better data to work from.
Just small screen mistakes I think. We all have bigger screen TVs to look at.FourWheelDrift said:
speedysoprano said:
Crofty's fine except for all the mistakes. Tens of them in every race. He can't figure out which driver is which even when it is plainly obvious to those of us at home, and he surely has better data to work from.
Just small screen mistakes I think. We all have bigger screen TVs to look at.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff