+++ The Official Italian (Monza) Grand Prix Thread 2015 +++

[moanthebairns]

leglessAlex said:

RichB said:

moanthebairns said:

...Then complained like a whining bh that I was now needing to push for 5 laps.

It really gets under your skin doesn't it!

I'm not a fan of Hamilton, in fact I think he's pretty annoying a lot of the time, but this time I think he was right to be a bit pissed off with the team. It can't be pleasant to be way out in front and then suddenly be told to go hell for leather for no reason. Hell, my heart was in my mouth wondering what was wrong and I was only watching!

What gets under my skin is a driver getting paid millions, who's meant to be the best in the world, in a car that's 5 or 6 seconds slower than a decade ago, moaning about driving quick for half a dozen laps, with a huge lead in the championship, a 20 second cushion, in a car that's by far the quickest out there and had the easiest race.

Deal with it. Hardly like they asked him to drive without a seatbelt. Its what your paid for.

[Derek Smith]

Hungrymc said:

No class you say? We know you're upset as Nico had another very bad weekend (I feel for him, he's in a bad place at the moment and everything that can go wrong is going wrong) but you're making yourself look rather foolish.

Ignoring your response the the bloke who, not only doesn't care, but spends time on here telling us how much he doesn't care, I was quite surprised by Rosberg's demeanor post race. He was quite laid back - I know he's not the most excitable of people - despite the loss of 25 points ensuring he requires DHFs from Hamilton and none from him. That is, right up until his daughter was mentioned when he became quite excited.

The thought that crossed my mind was that his hunger might well have gone. I remember when my first was born: everything changed, it looked different. When I got married I'd wake up in the morning and be quite surprised. As soon as my son came home, I was a father. Being a parent changes attitudes massively for some blokes.

[Zoobeef]

moanthebairns said:

leglessAlex said:

RichB said:

moanthebairns said:

...Then complained like a whining bh that I was now needing to push for 5 laps.

It really gets under your skin doesn't it!

I'm not a fan of Hamilton, in fact I think he's pretty annoying a lot of the time, but this time I think he was right to be a bit pissed off with the team. It can't be pleasant to be way out in front and then suddenly be told to go hell for leather for no reason. Hell, my heart was in my mouth wondering what was wrong and I was only watching!

What gets under my skin is a driver getting paid millions, who's meant to be the best in the world, in a car that's 5 or 6 seconds slower than a decade ago, moaning about driving quick for half a dozen laps, with a huge lead in the championship, a 20 second cushion, in a car that's by far the quickest out there and had the easiest race.

Deal with it. Hardly like they asked him to drive without a seatbelt. Its what your paid for.

So you completely missed why he was worried? He wasn't questioning it because he was scared.

[London424]

moanthebairns said:

leglessAlex said:

RichB said:

moanthebairns said:

...Then complained like a whining bh that I was now needing to push for 5 laps.

It really gets under your skin doesn't it!

I'm not a fan of Hamilton, in fact I think he's pretty annoying a lot of the time, but this time I think he was right to be a bit pissed off with the team. It can't be pleasant to be way out in front and then suddenly be told to go hell for leather for no reason. Hell, my heart was in my mouth wondering what was wrong and I was only watching!

What gets under my skin is a driver getting paid millions, who's meant to be the best in the world, in a car that's 5 or 6 seconds slower than a decade ago, moaning about driving quick for half a dozen laps, with a huge lead in the championship, a 20 second cushion, in a car that's by far the quickest out there and had the easiest race.

Deal with it. Hardly like they asked him to drive without a seatbelt. Its what your paid for.

I looked at it from the POV that he was nervous. He was already asking his team what he could do to save the car as much as possible (no point putting extra stress on it when you're miles out front), then out of nowhere they ask for HammerTime qualifying type laps, oh but don't take any risks, oh and don't ask what it's about we'll tell you later.

This in a sport where they tell the drivers pretty much every worthless piece of information they can at all times.

[moanthebairns]

Zoobeef said:

moanthebairns said:

leglessAlex said:

RichB said:

moanthebairns said:

...Then complained like a whining bh that I was now needing to push for 5 laps.

It really gets under your skin doesn't it!

I'm not a fan of Hamilton, in fact I think he's pretty annoying a lot of the time, but this time I think he was right to be a bit pissed off with the team. It can't be pleasant to be way out in front and then suddenly be told to go hell for leather for no reason. Hell, my heart was in my mouth wondering what was wrong and I was only watching!

What gets under my skin is a driver getting paid millions, who's meant to be the best in the world, in a car that's 5 or 6 seconds slower than a decade ago, moaning about driving quick for half a dozen laps, with a huge lead in the championship, a 20 second cushion, in a car that's by far the quickest out there and had the easiest race.

Deal with it. Hardly like they asked him to drive without a seatbelt. Its what your paid for.

So you completely missed why he was worried? He wasn't questioning it because he was scared.

did I once say he was scared?

[RobGT81]

moanthebairns said:

What gets under my skin is a driver getting paid millions, who's meant to be the best in the world, in a car that's 5 or 6 seconds slower than a decade ago, moaning about driving quick for half a dozen laps, with a huge lead in the championship, a 20 second cushion, in a car that's by far the quickest out there and had the easiest race.

Deal with it. Hardly like they asked him to drive without a seatbelt. Its what your paid for.

Quite. He would have a nervous breakdown if he drove a P1 in WEC. Leena Gade on the radio telling him to "push with no risk" would properly confuse him. He does seem to rely on the team giving him information a lot more than other drivers.

[StevieBee]

Derek Smith said:

Ignoring your response the the bloke who, not only doesn't care, but spends time on here telling us how much he doesn't care, I was quite surprised by Rosberg's demeanor post race. He was quite laid back - I know he's not the most excitable of people - despite the loss of 25 points ensuring he requires DHFs from Hamilton and none from him. That is, right up until his daughter was mentioned when he became quite excited.

The thought that crossed my mind was that his hunger might well have gone. I remember when my first was born: everything changed, it looked different. When I got married I'd wake up in the morning and be quite surprised. As soon as my son came home, I was a father. Being a parent changes attitudes massively for some blokes.

Enzo Ferrari said that becoming a father would cost a driver at least a second a lap.

I think different drivers react in different ways. Vettel has just had a second child and doesn't seem to have lost any of his speed.

I do wonder if Rosberg has simply conceded that he will ever be a very good number two driver in the same vein as Patrese, Massa at Ferrari and countless others.

[Derek Smith]

StevieBee said:

Enzo Ferrari said that becoming a father would cost a driver at least a second a lap.

I think different drivers react in different ways. Vettel has just had a second child and doesn't seem to have lost any of his speed.

I do wonder if Rosberg has simply conceded that he will ever be a very good number two driver in the same vein as Patrese, Massa at Ferrari and countless others.

I feel sorry for him, well a bit. He's still got the dream job of course.

But if you try your hardest, as we've seen in qualifying, and still lose a tenth to your team mate in an identical car, then the feeling of 'why do I bother' has got to drift in.

Monaco last year showed a certain desperation I thought. Then Spa.

But he is very fast. There's no doubt about that. He took on Schumacher. He's no Eddy Irvine, in it for the good life and counting the hours to get back to the beech. But I take our point with Patrese and he reminds me of him in many ways. He was very similar to Rosberg: intelligent, quick both intellectually and in the car, somewhat reserved, but, in his time at Williams, paired against someone who fitted the car.

But then I look at his lifestyle, his money, the accolades and being made for life, and I often think to myself: Just get on with it and back your team leader.

On another point, I found Wolff's response to the pressure problems quite amusing. I'm really getting to like the bloke. His demeanor after the 'no penalty' decision was a classic. Great big smile across his great big face. The way he dealt with the questions when it was obvious he was going to say nothing was quite polite as well. He even gave a smile or two. Vettel, with his 'sticking microphones in my face' fell a little short I felt.

Livened the race up a bit towards the end. I was really looking forward to the battle between Vettel and Rosberg. The former would have had to try and get NR to overheat his brakes. It would have been fun.

[Jasandjules]

StevieBee said:

I do wonder if Rosberg has simply conceded that he will ever be a very good number two driver in the same vein as Patrese, Massa at Ferrari and countless others.

That is what I was wondering, especially now with a 50 point deficit, unless Lewis has major unreliability (and oddly poor Nico seems to have had most of the gremlins this year) then the title is his.

Not to mention no matter what Nico does, Lewis is pretty much faster.

[swisstoni]

moanthebairns said:

Zoobeef said:

moanthebairns said:

leglessAlex said:

RichB said:

moanthebairns said:

...Then complained like a whining bh that I was now needing to push for 5 laps.

It really gets under your skin doesn't it!

I'm not a fan of Hamilton, in fact I think he's pretty annoying a lot of the time, but this time I think he was right to be a bit pissed off with the team. It can't be pleasant to be way out in front and then suddenly be told to go hell for leather for no reason. Hell, my heart was in my mouth wondering what was wrong and I was only watching!

What gets under my skin is a driver getting paid millions, who's meant to be the best in the world, in a car that's 5 or 6 seconds slower than a decade ago, moaning about driving quick for half a dozen laps, with a huge lead in the championship, a 20 second cushion, in a car that's by far the quickest out there and had the easiest race.

Deal with it. Hardly like they asked him to drive without a seatbelt. Its what your paid for.

So you completely missed why he was worried? He wasn't questioning it because he was scared.

did I once say he was scared?

He could have done any number of maximum speed laps and probably have preferred it personally. What he was concerned about was getting his car to the finish line. The engine was the same as the one that went pop in Rosbergs car earlier in the weekend. He was nursing the car home and suddenly gets told to go like hell.
Wouldn't any driver worth a damn ask what was going on?

[iandc]

swisstoni said:

He could have done any number of maximum speed laps and probably have preferred it personally. What he was concerned about was getting his car to the finish line. The engine was the same as the one that went pop in Rosbergs car earlier in the weekend. He was nursing the car home and suddenly gets told to go like hell.
Wouldn't any driver worth a damn ask what was going on?

Lewis had the new engine and Rosberg the old one which had done 6 races so NOT the same engine that went pop. Anyway it was all a set up so Ferrari could see just how fast the Merc went when it needed to as nobody could challenge Lewis on the track they needed a "spoof" to get him to show true capability of the new engine!

[IainT]

Derek Smith said:

On another point, I found Wolff's response to the pressure problems quite amusing. I'm really getting to like the bloke. His demeanor after the 'no penalty' decision was a classic. Great big smile across his great big face. The way he dealt with the questions when it was obvious he was going to say nothing was quite polite as well. He even gave a smile or two. Vettel, with his 'sticking microphones in my face' fell a little short I felt.

I really like Wolff, a decent balance between politically astute and quite amusing - very dry sense of humour.

I though Seb's point was well made if a little blunt - he wasn't in a position to know anything about something he hadn't been briefed on. I put his bluntness down to language - good as his English is it's still a second language and people tend to rephrase things from their native language somewhat verbatim. I think his question "was that rude?" made it clear he didn't intend it to be but wanted to make sure his point was understood. I've quite grown to like Seb's character, something I never did with Schumacker...

[DJRC]

RobGT81 said:

moanthebairns said:

What gets under my skin is a driver getting paid millions, who's meant to be the best in the world, in a car that's 5 or 6 seconds slower than a decade ago, moaning about driving quick for half a dozen laps, with a huge lead in the championship, a 20 second cushion, in a car that's by far the quickest out there and had the easiest race.

Deal with it. Hardly like they asked him to drive without a seatbelt. Its what your paid for.

Quite. He would have a nervous breakdown if he drove a P1 in WEC. Leena Gade on the radio telling him to "push with no risk" would properly confuse him. He does seem to rely on the team giving him information a lot more than other drivers.

To be fair though when Leena comes over the airwaves and gives an order she manages to make it sound like Bodicea on her war chariot whilst having you cuffed to her bed as she is about to spank you! Leena Gade rocks

[leglessAlex]

RobGT81 said:

moanthebairns said:

What gets under my skin is a driver getting paid millions, who's meant to be the best in the world, in a car that's 5 or 6 seconds slower than a decade ago, moaning about driving quick for half a dozen laps, with a huge lead in the championship, a 20 second cushion, in a car that's by far the quickest out there and had the easiest race.

Deal with it. Hardly like they asked him to drive without a seatbelt. Its what your paid for.

Quite. He would have a nervous breakdown if he drove a P1 in WEC. Leena Gade on the radio telling him to "push with no risk" would properly confuse him. He does seem to rely on the team giving him information a lot more than other drivers.

I doubt it. As other people have said and I agree with, it was the fact he wasn't given a reason as to why he should go balls to the wall when he was 20+ seconds in front and with five laps remaining. For all he knew, there could have been any number of unpleasant reasons as to why he was being told to push five laps from the end and because the team weren't telling him anything, I'm sure they would have been going around in his head. You may say the cars are slower now but that doesn't mean they are outright easy to drive, especially when you're worried your car may be about to break or some other unpleasant thing happening.

Can you seriously not see why he might not be a little annoyed at the team for that? Do you really think any of the other drivers would be happy in that situation? Remember this is Hamilton, who has traditionally showed his emotions more than other drivers anyway.

[Vaud]

DJRC said:

To be fair though when Leena comes over the airwaves and gives an order she manages to make it sound like Bodicea on her war chariot whilst having you cuffed to her bed as she is about to spank you! Leena Gade rocks

And then with a until .

Since then I've been banned from the paddock.

[Asterix]

Vaud said:

And then with a goat until .

Since then I've been banned from the paddock.

[swisstoni]

iandc said:

swisstoni said:

He could have done any number of maximum speed laps and probably have preferred it personally. What he was concerned about was getting his car to the finish line. The engine was the same as the one that went pop in Rosbergs car earlier in the weekend. He was nursing the car home and suddenly gets told to go like hell.
Wouldn't any driver worth a damn ask what was going on?

Lewis had the new engine and Rosberg the old one which had done 6 races so NOT the same engine that went pop. Anyway it was all a set up so Ferrari could see just how fast the Merc went when it needed to as nobody could challenge Lewis on the track they needed a "spoof" to get him to show true capability of the new engine!

Rosberg suffered two engine failures over the weekend. I was referring to the original engine, that Rosberg and Hamilton started the weekend with. There would have been concerns that Hamilton's engine would go the same way as Rosbergs original engine went.

[IainT]

swisstoni said:

Rosberg suffered two engine failures over the weekend. I was referring to the original engine, that Rosberg and Hamilton started the weekend with. There would have been concerns that Hamilton's engine would go the same way as Rosbergs original engine went.

At least Nico's first engine (the uprated unit) is apparently going to be fine for the next race, they just couldn't sort out the oil/water contamination in time.

[Hungrymc]

Jasandjules said:

StevieBee said:

I do wonder if Rosberg has simply conceded that he will ever be a very good number two driver in the same vein as Patrese, Massa at Ferrari and countless others.

That is what I was wondering, especially now with a 50 point deficit, unless Lewis has major unreliability (and oddly poor Nico seems to have had most of the gremlins this year) then the title is his.

Not to mention no matter what Nico does, Lewis is pretty much faster.

The odds have certainly lengthened for Nico and being a dad can change many things. I guess the saftey improvements probably reduce Enzo's second a lap, but if it's 5/100ths it's enough to make a big difference.

I don't think Nico will give up though. He knows that momentum can swing back and forth so quickly. He will do everything he can to stay with a mathematical possibility, one or two DNFs, a tyre letting go, getting tangled with a back marker, anything can happen yet and I'm sure Nico will be pushing as hard as he can. It must be very frustrating to be getting out driven and getting the bad luck on reliability, but these situations can turn in a weekend.

[London424]

Hungrymc said:

Jasandjules said:

StevieBee said:

I do wonder if Rosberg has simply conceded that he will ever be a very good number two driver in the same vein as Patrese, Massa at Ferrari and countless others.

That is what I was wondering, especially now with a 50 point deficit, unless Lewis has major unreliability (and oddly poor Nico seems to have had most of the gremlins this year) then the title is his.

Not to mention no matter what Nico does, Lewis is pretty much faster.

The odds have certainly lengthened for Nico and being a dad can change many things. I guess the saftey improvements probably reduce Enzo's second a lap, but if it's 5/100ths it's enough to make a big difference.

I don't think Nico will give up though. He knows that momentum can swing back and forth so quickly. He will do everything he can to stay with a mathematical possibility, one or two DNFs, a tyre letting go, getting tangled with a back marker, anything can happen yet and I'm sure Nico will be pushing as hard as he can. It must be very frustrating to be getting out driven and getting the bad luck on reliability, but these situations can turn in a weekend.

Let's be honest though. The new gap to Nico, although unfortunate for him, is probably more reflective of the domination Hamilton has had over him this season.