The Official 2016 Malaysian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[Gary C]

tommunster10 said:

sandman77 said:

tommunster10 said:

you honestly think any driver winning a WDC is more important to Mercedes than the WCC?

Absolutely yes! Did you see the interview with Christian Horner on Ch4 after the Grand Prix on Sunday? He mentioned that when Red Bull had sewn up the constructors championship but it was looking like Vettel might not win the drivers championship (cant remember what year) that he and the team tried to convince themselves that the constructors was the most important thing anyway.

OK I should have pointed out that aside from the one just selling fizzy drinks, with Mercedes they are selling an actual brand which makes cars, like Ferrari, I mean Red Bull have a Renault engine but have Infinity and Aston Martin brands on the car?! It's a Fizzy drink team which sells the dream of a drink giving you wings and crazy dare devils so their drivers are more important in that respect granted.

But i take your point and it's my fault for not saying what I've just mentioned in my prior post.

Lol, the only teams that state that the WCC is more important to them than the WDC, is the team that just lost the WDC.

[andyps]

Gary C said:

Lol, the only teams that state that the WCC is more important to them than the WDC, is the team that just lost the WDC.

For the team the WCC is more important for one simple reason - money. Publicity is higher for the drivers championship, but the driver is not always associated with the team when the championship is discussed.

[Hungrymc]

We rarely hear the public talk about F1 constructors winner. They will far more often know who is the drivers champion and do generally associate them to the car. I'd be surprised from a PR perspective if drivers championship isn't far more valuable?

Is a little irrelevant in this case as be it Nico or Lewis, it will be a Mercedes car.

[tommunster10]

It must be pretty important to them I mean historically all the money in Motorsport is from the factory teams. BTCC's glory days of vast money were when Alfa came over with 6 million budget and the ST days of factory teams, they weren't just there to help the drivers look good I doubt.
The drivers are a part of the team, 10% of the package according to Brundle, so yes they get the rabid fans and that attracts people to the sport who would not normally be bothered (this is why Lewis is perfect for the X Factor generation, Bieber, Farell)
But Mercedes would be wanting both a WDC and to claim the WCC title I'd of thought.
Anyway Mercedes are not happy when they don't get a 1-2 as that is what the car should be getting every race on paper as its sheer dominance.
In fact do we say "Lewis and Nico dominated F1" in these seasons or will history say "Mercedes F1 dominated".. already people talk of the Red Bull dominance and not Sebs necessarily..

[Derek Smith]

I'm a fan on constructors. Started with Lotus, moved to Brabham, at least for their glory days, and moved to my current team, McLaren, at the start of MP4.

I was a big fan of Clark, but haven't picked a driver since.

I like my way. I enjoy drivers for what they do. If they beat another one, as long as it was fair, I've got no problem. I like watching exciting drivers, so it doesn't matter what team they are in. I can sympathise with Hamilton's frustration without feeling obliged to suggest he brought it on himself. I can accept stewards' decisions - as long as they don't hurt McLaren - without having to suggest they are biased.

I also have, over recent years, been used to failure, but I feel sure they'll come back. It's like following a football team. Drivers/players are ephemeral, less so now than in the past thankfully, but the teams go on.

I think Ferrari are fairly consistent in their attempts at the WCC rather than WDC.

[Gary C]

andyps said:

Gary C said:

Lol, the only teams that state that the WCC is more important to them than the WDC, is the team that just lost the WDC.

For the team the WCC is more important for one simple reason - money. Publicity is higher for the drivers championship, but the driver is not always associated with the team when the championship is discussed.

So ask Mercedes who pay the bills which they would prefer. When I say team, i suppose I mean the ones running it ( I imagine some of the engineers see the WCC as a proof of their ability) but the 'team' need the WDC, its remembered LONG after the WCC has faded.

Senna, & McLaren (and Honda)
Vettel Red Bull
Damon Hill Williams
Schmacher Ferrari & Benetton
Hakionen Mclaren
Mansell Williams
Hamilton Merc & Mclaren

Cant even remember if they won the WCC at the same time.

The public remember the WDC winners and who they raced for when they won, the sponsors remember the WDC winners and the image of the winning cars, I mean who can forget the Cannon Logo across the rear wing of Mansells WDC car. I dont think a sponsor would pour money into any team that said "well, we are targeting the WCC not the WDC as it doesn't mater as much to us", do you ?

Edited by Gary C on Wednesday 5th October 22:32

[stemll]

Senna never won the WDC at Williams. Never finished a race

[Gary C]

stemll said:

Senna never won the WDC at Williams. Never finished a race

Oops, finger trouble, my mistake.

[rsbmw]

Gary C said:

...I mean who can forget the Cannon Logo across the rear wing of Mansells WDC car...

Edited by Gary C on Wednesday 5th October 22:32

#

Well, clearly you, it's spelt Canon

[tommunster10]

Gary C said:

andyps said:

Gary C said:

Lol, the only teams that state that the WCC is more important to them than the WDC, is the team that just lost the WDC.

For the team the WCC is more important for one simple reason - money. Publicity is higher for the drivers championship, but the driver is not always associated with the team when the championship is discussed.

So ask Mercedes who pay the bills which they would prefer. When I say team, i suppose I mean the ones running it ( I imagine some of the engineers see the WCC as a proof of their ability) but the 'team' need the WDC, its remembered LONG after the WCC has faded.

Senna, & McLaren (and Honda)
Vettel Red Bull
Damon Hill Williams
Schmacher Ferrari & Benetton
Hakionen Mclaren
Mansell Williams
Hamilton Merc & Mclaren

Cant even remember if they won the WCC at the same time.

The public remember the WDC winners and who they raced for when they won, the sponsors remember the WDC winners and the image of the winning cars, I mean who can forget the Cannon Logo across the rear wing of Mansells WDC car. I dont think a sponsor would pour money into any team that said "well, we are targeting the WCC not the WDC as it doesn't mater as much to us", do you ?

Edited by Gary C on Wednesday 5th October 22:32

Christ all i said was that Mercedes would like to win the WCC! Obviously if they have a good car they should be winning the WDC and the WCC, just look at the ruddy margin they have!
I don't personally think Mercedes F1 exist just to make Lewis and Nico look better than everyone else just for them personally, they exist to win races and to make Mercedes brand look good.
I personally don't think that without Nico or Lewis Mercedes would be missing out on WDC or WCC over last few seasons. But yes in truth the WCC should be wrapped up with the WDC, not sure what stats are for times that's not happened?

It's like Jim Clark, legend yes, but Coiln Chapman was the true legend really, Brundle driving Jim Clarks Lotus "Well i can see why Jim loved driving this thing every race, it's so easy to drive and far ahead of its competition" or words to that effect....
The engineers and constructors may not be as cool as a bloke in a baseball cap at a jornty angle, but they are the true stars behind it all.

Also saying "I mean who can forget the Cannon Logo across the rear wing of Mansells WDC car" just proves my point, Mansell didn't make the car did he IIRC? He is driving the car yes but its the car we all see? See...Constructors made that they did.

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 6th October 08:22

[sandman77]

Take 1994 for example. Who do you think was happiest - Benetton because Michael Schumacher just won the WDC or Williams who won the WCC? Also what team got the most publicity out of the result?

[sandman77]

Actually also 1999 when Ferrari won the WCC and Hakkinen won the WDC. Do you think Ferrari were satisfied with just the WCC?

[HustleRussell]

Interesting article here which describes Hamilton's engine failure as a 'big end failure proceeded by a loss of oil pressure' and outlining technical changes to Mercedes' PU for Suzuka which will apparently make the PUs slower and safer.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37571364

[Gary C]

tommunster10 said:

Christ all i said was that Mercedes would like to win the WCC! Obviously if they have a good car they should be winning the WDC and the WCC, just look at the ruddy margin they have!
I don't personally think Mercedes F1 exist just to make Lewis and Nico look better than everyone else just for them personally, they exist to win races and to make Mercedes brand look good.
I personally don't think that without Nico or Lewis Mercedes would be missing out on WDC or WCC over last few seasons. But yes in truth the WCC should be wrapped up with the WDC, not sure what stats are for times that's not happened?

It's like Jim Clark, legend yes, but Coiln Chapman was the true legend really, Brundle driving Jim Clarks Lotus "Well i can see why Jim loved driving this thing every race, it's so easy to drive and far ahead of its competition" or words to that effect....
The engineers and constructors may not be as cool as a bloke in a baseball cap at a jornty angle, but they are the true stars behind it all.

Also saying "I mean who can forget the Cannon Logo across the rear wing of Mansells WDC car" just proves my point, Mansell didn't make the car did he IIRC? He is driving the car yes but its the car we all see? See...Constructors made that they did.

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 6th October 08:22

And the canon logo is imprinted on a williams image in the minds of those that matter.

All I'm saying it, the WDC is more important than the WCC as that what attracts the sponsors, attracts the halo. If merc had only won the WCC for the last two years (I know the odds mean that if you can win the WDC then the WCC is likely) do you think merc would have got the positive publicity it's had ?

The general public remember the driver and the press show pictures of them in cars covered with sponsors logos. Sponsors want to invest in teams that win the WDC, so teams want to win the WDC, it's the most important.

[Gary C]

rsbmw said:

Gary C said:

...I mean who can forget the Cannon Logo across the rear wing of Mansells WDC car...

Edited by Gary C on Wednesday 5th October 22:32

#

Well, clearly you, it's spelt Canon

Oh fk off.

Edit, ipad missed the

Edited by Gary C on Thursday 6th October 18:57

[HustleRussell]

Language.

[eps]

Timothy

[rsbmw]

My monocle hit the deck when I checked back at the thread.

[tommunster10]

Gary C said:

tommunster10 said:

Christ all i said was that Mercedes would like to win the WCC! Obviously if they have a good car they should be winning the WDC and the WCC, just look at the ruddy margin they have!
I don't personally think Mercedes F1 exist just to make Lewis and Nico look better than everyone else just for them personally, they exist to win races and to make Mercedes brand look good.
I personally don't think that without Nico or Lewis Mercedes would be missing out on WDC or WCC over last few seasons. But yes in truth the WCC should be wrapped up with the WDC, not sure what stats are for times that's not happened?

It's like Jim Clark, legend yes, but Coiln Chapman was the true legend really, Brundle driving Jim Clarks Lotus "Well i can see why Jim loved driving this thing every race, it's so easy to drive and far ahead of its competition" or words to that effect....
The engineers and constructors may not be as cool as a bloke in a baseball cap at a jornty angle, but they are the true stars behind it all.

Also saying "I mean who can forget the Cannon Logo across the rear wing of Mansells WDC car" just proves my point, Mansell didn't make the car did he IIRC? He is driving the car yes but its the car we all see? See...Constructors made that they did.

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 6th October 08:22

And the canon logo is imprinted on a williams image in the minds of those that matter.

All I'm saying it, the WDC is more important than the WCC as that what attracts the sponsors, attracts the halo. If merc had only won the WCC for the last two years (I know the odds mean that if you can win the WDC then the WCC is likely) do you think merc would have got the positive publicity it's had ?

The general public remember the driver and the press show pictures of them in cars covered with sponsors logos. Sponsors want to invest in teams that win the WDC, so teams want to win the WDC, it's the most important.

OK but they want to win the WDC to aid the team not necessarily just a driver is what I mean, the part of the team which is the driver is driven by many factors, Lewis is marketing gold dust to reaching those Bieber fans and X Factor children and people who wear skinny jeans and baseball caps sideways, it has become a bit like X Factor with Lewis the whole woe is me back story of living on the breadline (failing to mention Ron Dennis behind his family since he was 12 odd).

Of course Mercedes F1 want Lewis to be wining they pay him the most and he's No 1 driver in the team, but they do it for Team Mercedes rather than a philanthropic reason to make Lewis look awesome.
But by making him look awesome it sells cars and the brand...
I'd be shocked if Ron Dennis wasn't at first excited by the possibility of a "first black F1 champion" from a marketing perspective, i mean Tiger Woods came first and look at his draw, it sells!

All this makes it all the more bizarre that Lewis would want to arm his more rabid fans with the possibility that Mercedes are the big bad Wolff trying to ruin him.......

[anonymous-user]

Lewis Hamilton engine issue


Mercedes has discovered the cause of Lewis Hamilton's Formula 1 engine failure during the Malaysian Grand Prix.

The reigning world champion was leading the Sepang F1 race when his engine let go 15 laps from the end in what was his third power unit failure of the year.

Following investigations, Mercedes has determined a big-end bearing failure in the crankshaft as the root cause of the engine problem, which it says happened without warning after 618km, and was preceded by a loss of oil pressure in Turn 15.

Hamilton will revert to the engine he used in Singapore for the Japanese GP this weekend, while Rosberg will continue with the power unit he ran in Malaysia.

As a precaution, Mercedes is introducing revised running parameters for the works team, as well as customers Williams, Force India and Manor.

Those parameters will include, but are not limited to, a different and more conservative oil specification.

All Mercedes customer drivers excluding Manor's Esteban Ocon were set to take new engines this weekend as part of their planned cycle.

However, those changes have been delayed until Mercedes has conducted further analysis from stripping Hamilton's failed unit.

Those five customer team drivers will continue to use their units from the Malaysian Grand Prix.