Christian Horner

[Evercross]

Gazzab said:

Anything else re power plays, Austria, Jos, Geri, completeness of messages etc is probably irrelevant to the central issue ie the grievance.

Or probably not if the grievance was intended to precipitate a desired result (ie. a summary dismissal of Horner) which then didn't happen.

Jos Verstappen - not a man known for his circumspection - maybe should not have been so publicly vocal about forcing an outcome when things weren't going the way he appeared to want them to...

There are some people in here who still genuinely believe that maybe he was just motivated by his sense of seeing a woman (allegedly) wronged get justice!

Edited by Evercross on Monday 1st April 15:46

[Blib]

Jos Verstappen has shown himself over the years to be a selfish fool of the first order.

He couldn't strategise himself out of a wet paper bag.

Right now he's a liability to Max. The sooner Max is shot of him the better, IMO.

[skwdenyer]

Blib said:

Jos Verstappen has shown himself over the years to be a selfish fool of the first order.

He couldn't strategise himself out of a wet paper bag.

Right now he's a liability to Max. The sooner Max is shot of him the better, IMO.

Jos does seem to have been his own worst enemy sometimes. He was undoubtedly a talented driver. And he was arguably promoted to F1 far too soon (and, unlike Max, was not allowed to crash his way to enlightenment without losing his seat). But his inability to attract and/or retain sponsors (arguably not helped by his apparently ah-hem volatile personal relationships) did him no favours.

[suffolk009]

PhilAsia said:

Yep. His defense of AD21 was a shot in the foot. I feel he is another RB guy.

Exactly, prior to his response to AD21 I thought of Saward highly. Now clearly he's too afraid to rock the RB boat. Credibility - blown.

[skwdenyer]

suffolk009 said:

PhilAsia said:

Yep. His defense of AD21 was a shot in the foot. I feel he is another RB guy.

Exactly, prior to his response to AD21 I thought of Saward highly. Now clearly he's too afraid to rock the RB boat. Credibility - blown.

If you read his piece after AD21, I don’t think he took sides as between RB and Merc. What he did was defend Masi and opine he thought the rules allowed for what had happened.

That’s importantly different to the accusations of partisanship.

[Gazzab]

Evercross said:

Gazzab said:

Anything else re power plays, Austria, Jos, Geri, completeness of messages etc is probably irrelevant to the central issue ie the grievance.

Or probably not if the grievance was intended to precipitate a desired result (ie. a summary dismissal of Horner) which then didn't happen.

Jos Verstappen - not a man known for his circumspection - maybe should not have been so publicly vocal about forcing an outcome when things weren't going the way he appeared to want them to...

There are some people in here who still genuinely believe that maybe he was just motivated by his sense of seeing a woman (allegedly) wronged get justice!

Edited by Evercross on Monday 1st April 15:46

I don’t recall a single person suggesting that Jos was motivated by a sense of justice.

[Muzzer79]

Evercross said:

PhilAsia said:

The affair is not really the problem. It is the alleged sexual predation after.

FTFY.

tommyx1 said:

So, the fact that no one is speaking about against CH indicates that this is an isolated incident and more to the story than what we see publicly.

This is a key point that I made way back when the leaks appeared (just after certain journalists started briefing against Horner). Someone was clearly fishing for a Harvey Weinstein moment hoping that other allegations of "controlling behaviour" regarding Horner would appear.

Instead, nothing!

Then, an accusation of dishonesty directed at one person....

Edited by Evercross on Monday 1st April 14:27

See, if you with any ounce practiced what you preach with the

“We have no evidence”
“Nothing is proven”
“Everything is speculation”

Stance then I might, just might, respect your point of view.

But the fact that you are on the other end of the spectrum and staunchly leaning towards presuming Horner’s innocence blows that to pieces.

[Evercross]

Muzzer79 said:

But the fact that you are on the other end of the spectrum and staunchly leaning towards presuming Horner’s innocence blows that to pieces.

The presumption of innocence is a basic human right in a free society. There's a certain irony in anyone accusing anyone else of wrongthink for holding that position.

Ponder that before you climb on your high horse again.

[Muzzer79]

Evercross said:

Muzzer79 said:

But the fact that you are on the other end of the spectrum and staunchly leaning towards presuming Horner’s innocence blows that to pieces.

The presumption of innocence is a basic human right in a free society. There's a certain irony in anyone accusing anyone else of wrongthink for holding that position.

Ponder that before you climb on your high horse again.

Your logic is correct.

But consider someone standing over a dead body holding a gun and think again how much you presume their innocence.

I’m all for impartiality and considering all options. Horner may have been the victim of a huge stitch up. But he also may be a creepy perv.

Right now he looks like a creepy perv. I have no issue in you calling out people taking that idea as gospel.

What I do have issue with is people implying that Horner’s (alleged) behaviour is somehow excused because the woman was a willing participant in the relationship, or because the relationship was revealed as part of a bigger power play by someone in Red Bull.

[Forester1965]

Suggestion in F1 tattle rag F1 Business that the independent lawyer asked to investigate Horner is actually a regular one used by the Thai owners' who was infrastructed to clear him.

No idea of the veracity of that information.

[540TORQUES]

And now he is in a scrap with the locals over his planning application for an outdoor swimming pool.

This is just after a similar scrap to build a stables block.

How to win friends and influence people.

[skwdenyer]

Forester1965 said:

Suggestion in F1 tattle rag F1 Business that the independent lawyer asked to investigate Horner is actually a regular one used by the Thai owners' who was infrastructed to clear him.

No idea of the veracity of that information.

Not just that:

BusinessF1 said:

Finally this month’s cover story asks whether Chalerm Yoovidhya, the 51 percent shareholder in Red Bull GmbH, is a fit and proper person to control two Formula One teams.

I’d say the power struggle is just getting started

[NRS]

Evercross said:

Muzzer79 said:

But the fact that you are on the other end of the spectrum and staunchly leaning towards presuming Horner’s innocence blows that to pieces.

The presumption of innocence is a basic human right in a free society. There's a certain irony in anyone accusing anyone else of wrongthink for holding that position.

Ponder that before you climb on your high horse again.

Lol, you’re the one that accused Humza of paying a bribe to Hamas based on nothing more than your personal opinion. Do you know the meaning of irony?

[PhilAsia]

NRS said:

Evercross said:

Muzzer79 said:

But the fact that you are on the other end of the spectrum and staunchly leaning towards presuming Horner’s innocence blows that to pieces.

The presumption of innocence is a basic human right in a free society. There's a certain irony in anyone accusing anyone else of wrongthink for holding that position.

Ponder that before you climb on your high horse again.

Lol, you’re the one that accused Humza of paying a bribe to Hamas based on nothing more than your personal opinion. Do you know the meaning of irony?

That fits...

[Jasandjules]

skwdenyer said:

If you read his piece after AD21, I don’t think he took sides as between RB and Merc. What he did was defend Masi and opine he thought the rules allowed for what had happened.

That’s importantly different to the accusations of partisanship.

Not really. The rules are and were extremely clear and Masi knew them to be so.

Anyone attempting to defend that decision which was plainly in breach of the rules was partisan, it is that simple.

[Evercross]

NRS said:

Lol, you’re the one that accused Humza of paying a bribe to Hamas based on nothing more than your personal opinion. Do you know the meaning of irony?

NRS - how many times do I have to tell you that I am on the inside as far as Scottish Government stuff is concerned?

It wasn't a bribe - it was a ransom payment.

Edited by Evercross on Monday 1st April 20:04

[Forester1965]

Jasandjules said:

Not really. The rules are and were extremely clear and Masi knew them to be so.

Anyone attempting to defend that decision which was plainly in breach of the rules was partisan, it is that simple.

This.

[Leithen]

skwdenyer said:

Not just that:

BusinessF1 said:

Finally this month’s cover story asks whether Chalerm Yoovidhya, the 51 percent shareholder in Red Bull GmbH, is a fit and proper person to control two Formula One teams.

I’d say the power struggle is just getting started

Mr Haas would seem to puncture that argument.

[Catweazle]

Muzzer79 said:

I’m all for impartiality and considering all options. Horner may have been the victim of a huge stitch up. But he also may be a creepy perv.

There is a possibility that it's both.

[TheDeuce]

Catweazle said:

Muzzer79 said:

I’m all for impartiality and considering all options. Horner may have been the victim of a huge stitch up. But he also may be a creepy perv.

There is a possibility that it's both.

It's definitely the latter, dirty sod!! It's always an issue if your boss messages you to tell you he's just knocked one out on a plane

And probably also the former. And she probably did have a game plan in mind... Or at least was aware of the potential future power of saving the messages even if she didn't have a plan when the less than appropriate messages were sent.