F1 sounds crap

[cidered77]

24lemons said:

cidered77 said:

This has been posted on the race thread but to repeat here: today F1 cars were a about 3 seconds per lap slower than 2013, a gap that will by the end of the season be won back.

They did this on 100kg of fuel, vs. 160kg last year.

This tells us the V8s were an anachronism, and not reflective of what the world's best engineers can achieve in 2014.

If you lament the sound of the V8s you might as well wish for the sound of a webber carb fed v12 - this is the sound of modern performance, it doesn't sound like the old ways because the old ways were slower.

(And i know not literally slower - they cannot and should not make the cars faster than 2004 because that's about the safe limit - but doing similar pace on half the energy? That's just much, much better technology )

Thats progress I suppose. It just sounds crap!!

Relative to the old days or even the V8s then yeah, it does. "interesting" noise , but not "better"

So thanks f**k for goodwood and historic racing where we can hear those amazing old sounds in the right context- as (glorious) things of the past!

[S0 What]

I love the sound of squeeling tyres !
I love the sound of the crowd
i even love the sound of the PA in the background/nut guns ect ect
Take from that what you will

[mollytherocker]

stephen300o said:

mollytherocker said:

stephen300o said:

This thread is a good list of folks who cannot cope with change.

I am afraid good people, that change is enevitable.

Rubbish.

Good change is good.
Bad change is bad.

"It wasn't like this when I was a lad"

They wailed.

So just to be clear, are you saying that they sound better than the V10's?

[thegreenhell]

cidered77 said:

This has been posted on the race thread but to repeat here: today F1 cars were a about 3 seconds per lap slower than 2013, a gap that will by the end of the season be won back.

They did this on 100kg of fuel, vs. 160kg last year.

This tells us the V8s were an anachronism, and not reflective of what the world's best engineers can achieve in 2014.

If you lament the sound of the V8s you might as well wish for the sound of a webber carb fed v12 - this is the sound of modern performance, it doesn't sound like the old ways because the old ways were slower.

(And i know not literally slower - they cannot and should not make the cars faster than 2004 because that's about the safe limit - but doing similar pace on half the energy? That's just much, much better technology )

That's all very well, but this is supposed to be a show for the benefit of the viewing public.

Teams build exciting, loud racing cars that people will pay to watch go round in circles. Commercial companies want access to that captive audience, so pay sponnsorship money to the teams, which the teams then spend on racing loud and exciting racing cars that the public want to watch. Break a link in that chain and then what happens?

[entropy]

Personally I find the noise irritable. It's like its from old video games.

It's going to take time and maybe not at all.

Interestingly, in a Motorsport podcast Allan McNish claims the next generation will perhaps prefer quiet race cars...

[otolith]

You know what would really save fuel? Run the whole thing in a simulator. No need to ship cars and equipment and people round the world, so much more efficient. Get with the future!

[Alicatt1]

otolith said:

You know what would really save fuel? Run the whole thing in a simulator. No need to ship cars and equipment and people round the world, so much more efficient. Get with the future!

That and not having the F/A18 doing aerobatics before the start.

[entropy]

otolith said:

You know what would really save fuel? Run the whole thing in a simulator. No need to ship cars and equipment and people round the world, so much more efficient. Get with the future!

Drones? They could look and sound like an F1 car should!

[bobs280i]

How many times have we all gone to a F1 GP and you've a bit to walk to get to your vantage point......the deafening noise of those v8s and v12s especially in hockenheim that sounded like the devil......they made my legs go weak.

Edited by 930s forever on Sunday 16th March 18:30

[/quote]
YES I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN! !!!'

[dr_gn]

Alicatt1 said:

otolith said:

You know what would really save fuel? Run the whole thing in a simulator. No need to ship cars and equipment and people round the world, so much more efficient. Get with the future!

That and not having the F/A18 doing aerobatics before the start.

That was the best bit of the coverage IMO.

[Davidonly]

Philb1 said:

Don't like the sound at all. I liked the high pitched violence of the old engines but these don't do anything for me. I don't think this is a change for the better in regards to F1 as a sport to watch. I definitely won't be going to see any races now as they just don't excite me.

I have watched quite a few F1 races at Silverstone. The Sound was 75% of the experience, the violence and energy of these cars was amplified by the noise and the adrenaline rises when you hear the scream of the real racing engines.

I also visited the FoS a few times. You could see people look up and start to move toward the hill-climb when the V10 and V8 F1's started up. THEY drew the crowds with the NOISE.

Its over.

My M3 sounds more like a race engine that these admittedly advanced cars do. We have Formula E for silly gadgets. F1 should be fast, hard and a test of the driver on the limit for 2 hours....

Makes me sad but I think I am done with F1 as a live event. On TV I can turn the sound down and do something else so perhaps that fits with the 'on-demand' generation?

[dr_gn]

Davidonly said:

Philb1 said:

Don't like the sound at all. I liked the high pitched violence of the old engines but these don't do anything for me. I don't think this is a change for the better in regards to F1 as a sport to watch. I definitely won't be going to see any races now as they just don't excite me.

I have watched quite a few F1 races at Silverstone. The Sound was 75% of the experience, the violence and energy of these cars was amplified by the noise and the adrenaline rises when you hear the scream of the real racing engines.

I also visited the FoS a few times. You could see people look up and start to move toward the hill-climb when the V10 and V8 F1's started up. THEY drew the crowds with the NOISE.

Its over.

My M3 sounds more like a race engine that these admittedly advanced cars do. We have Formula E for silly gadgets. F1 should be fast, hard and a test of the driver on the limit for 2 hours....

Makes me sad but I think I am done with F1 as a live event. On TV I can turn the sound down and do something else so perhaps that fits with the 'on-demand' generation?

Some people actually saying it's now better live becasue you can hear the commentary and don't need ear defenders. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

[Spawn]

otolith said:

You know what would really save fuel? Run the whole thing in a simulator. No need to ship cars and equipment and people round the world, so much more efficient. Get with the future!

Internet lag would cause so many arguments though.

[Fantuzzi]

cidered77 said:

they cannot and should not make the cars faster than 2004 because that's about the safe limit

Could you expand on that point? I'd be interested to hear why you thank that.



For the record I don't like the noise at all, the introduction to the BBC coverage was rather more a requiem to the old distinctly vespid F1 sound, rather than warming you up for the spectacle to come. I used to think that F1 should be about pioneering technology but now I wonder how much of that will at the expense of the sport. The 'Green issue' is the most important thing for the mass car designer, but I question if F1 should need to participate in the issue, given motorsport's tiny contribution to automotive co2.

I look forward to seeing how the season will pan out however, I'm sure some good racing will make up for any aural disappointment.

[cidered77]

thegreenhell said:

cidered77 said:

This has been posted on the race thread but to repeat here: today F1 cars were a about 3 seconds per lap slower than 2013, a gap that will by the end of the season be won back.

They did this on 100kg of fuel, vs. 160kg last year.

This tells us the V8s were an anachronism, and not reflective of what the world's best engineers can achieve in 2014.

If you lament the sound of the V8s you might as well wish for the sound of a webber carb fed v12 - this is the sound of modern performance, it doesn't sound like the old ways because the old ways were slower.

(And i know not literally slower - they cannot and should not make the cars faster than 2004 because that's about the safe limit - but doing similar pace on half the energy? That's just much, much better technology )

That's all very well, but this is supposed to be a show for the benefit of the viewing public.

Teams build exciting, loud racing cars that people will pay to watch go round in circles. Commercial companies want access to that captive audience, so pay sponnsorship money to the teams, which the teams then spend on racing loud and exciting racing cars that the public want to watch. Break a link in that chain and then what happens?

So how about a straight 20 quid bet that this season delivers higher TV audiences than last. Handled over PM. If you're right and noise is literally *the most important* factor in F1 people will switch off.... Right?

[cidered77]

Fantuzzi said:

cidered77 said:

they cannot and should not make the cars faster than 2004 because that's about the safe limit

Could you expand on that point? I'd be interested to hear why you thank that.



For the record I don't like the noise at all, the introduction to the BBC coverage was rather more a requiem to the old distinctly vespid F1 sound, rather than warming you up for the spectacle to come. I used to think that F1 should be about pioneering technology but now I wonder how much of that will at the expense of the sport. The 'Green issue' is the most important thing for the mass car designer, but I question if F1 should need to participate in the issue, given motorsport's tiny contribution to automotive co2.

I look forward to seeing how the season will pan out however, I'm sure some good racing will make up for any aural disappointment.

I say that because any faster than 2004 then you get to a point where regardless of run off area, the deceleration injuries alone have the potential to be lethal (more specifically - skeleton stops at very high G, brain and organs continue onwards and smash against bone and skin, causing terrible injury).

I want F1 to be fast, dangerous, intimidating to the layman... But i do not want to watch men die, thankyou. Too much of that recently.

Engineers have been able to easily build 2004- beating cars for years now but regulators slow them down and "we want to do fastest ever lap-times " isn't s complaint you hear from teams , and they complain about everything else! You don't hear drivers wanting to lap melbourne in 1:20 either!

Laptimes will be be kept about this level - as in "massively quicker than any other formula on the planet", but they'll do it with less and less energy . I have no idea how much fuel the V10s used, but if it were twice today's 100kg (V8s being 160kg) then i would not be surprised. How is that not incredible!?

I also think the general public will find that as amazing as i do, not as loud, but so much more impressive. Let the sounds of the past be played at goodwood, and let f1 be on cutting edge always i say!!

[mollytherocker]

cidered77 said:

So how about a straight 20 quid bet that this season delivers higher TV audiences than last. Handled over PM. If you're right and noise is literally *the most important* factor in F1 people will switch off.... Right?

Audience numbers are not a reliable measure of quality. I assume you have seen the X Factor?

[bobs280i]

cidered77 said:

So how about a straight 20 quid bet that this season delivers higher TV audiences than last. Handled over PM. If you're right and noise is literally *the most important* factor in F1 people will switch off.... Right?

I think people were getting sick off vettel winning all the time ...if there is a different winner every race this year the Tv audience will be more ...not because they made a v6 turbo sounding engine...

[cidered77]

mollytherocker said:

cidered77 said:

So how about a straight 20 quid bet that this season delivers higher TV audiences than last. Handled over PM. If you're right and noise is literally *the most important* factor in F1 people will switch off.... Right?

Audience numbers are not a reliable measure of quality. I assume you have seen the X Factor?

Pretty good measure of money though. And the money buys the engineers , funds the equipment, and keeps the sport at thr pinnacle of technology.

F1 means a lot of things to a lot of people but pretty consistently throughout history it's been the most technologically advanced , and unless you want them to built cars only robots in g-suits can drive you need to keep changing the rules to slow them down and make it harder so those clever bds can find ways to bend them again and still hit same lap-times

It's not about being the loudest, it's about being the best . And somebody needs to pay the best else they'll all bugger off to build America's cup yachts or worse , be bankers.

[cidered77]

bobs280i said:

cidered77 said:

So how about a straight 20 quid bet that this season delivers higher TV audiences than last. Handled over PM. If you're right and noise is literally *the most important* factor in F1 people will switch off.... Right?

I think people were getting sick off vettel winning all the time ...if there is a different winner every race this year the Tv audience will be more ...not because they made a v6 turbo sounding engine...

Well despite 20 wuid bet ( which still stands) of course you right, am not disagreeing.

• the sport will benefit from higher viewing figures because the order has been mixed up* and seb doesn't dominate

• the sport will benefit from renewed sponsor and manufacturer investment because the technology is more relevant than NA V8s that nobody buys anymore

... So, good thing in all, shame about noise, but ah well.

• worse case and it's Mercedes who dominate then at least it's not possible to call who wins. No team orders, one driver quick and very very smart , the other very very quick but less able or willing to think things through - now what does that remind me of!?