The Official 2016 Spanish Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[johnfm]

Some Gump said:

johnfm said:

I think this tells me what I need to know

That you don' take the normal racing line when someone is trying to overtake you?
Come oh John, I know you are a hell of a lot more knowledgeable than this post implies.

(1) I am not that knowledgable; and

(2) it shows me that there was ZERO reason he couldn't leave a car width as required - it isn;t like he had no room on the other side.

Just looks like NR pushed LH off the circuit because he had fked up his own engine settings.

Poor form. And really poor not to have the decency to admit he made a mistake. Even in his statement after the incident he claimed the car was in the wrong mode. He fails to admit he put it in that mode.

[deadslow]

johnfm said:

Some Gump said:

johnfm said:

I think this tells me what I need to know

That you don' take the normal racing line when someone is trying to overtake you?
Come oh John, I know you are a hell of a lot more knowledgeable than this post implies.

(1) I am not that knowledgable; and

(2) it shows me that there was ZERO reason he couldn't leave a car width as required - it isn;t like he had no room on the other side.

Just looks like NR pushed LH off the circuit because he had fked up his own engine settings.

Poor form. And really poor not to have the decency to admit he made a mistake. Even in his statement after the incident he claimed the car was in the wrong mode. He fails to admit he put it in that mode.

Yes, Hamilton was entitled to pass. It was Someone Else's fault. The End.

[HustleRussell]

HustleRussell said:

deadslow said:

He did, after all, lose control of his car and bounce into his team-mate.

You're just being silly.

deadslow said:

Yes, Hamilton was entitled to pass. It was Someone Else's fault. The End.

I think you're just looking to get a rise out of people. You don’t have to be a Hamilton fan (I’m not) to have a basic grasp of the rules of engagement in motor racing.

[deadslow]

HustleRussell said:

HustleRussell said:

deadslow said:

He did, after all, lose control of his car and bounce into his team-mate.

You're just being silly.

deadslow said:

Yes, Hamilton was entitled to pass. It was Someone Else's fault. The End.

I think you're just looking to get a rise out of people. You don’t have to be a Hamilton fan (I’m not) to have a basic grasp of the rules of engagement in motor racing.

Feel free to ignore my posts and cut the ad hominem. I hold the same opinion as just about every F1 professional, so I don't apologise for my view. The only people losing sleep over this are the fanbois and the self-styled internet experts, of which, I am, according to you, neither

[HustleRussell]

deadslow said:

I hold the same opinion as just about every F1 professional

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your opinion seems to be that the incident was Hamilton's fault and Jackie Stewart is 'just about every F1 professional'?

[deadslow]

HustleRussell said:

deadslow said:

I hold the same opinion as just about every F1 professional

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your opinion seems to be that the incident was Hamilton's fault and Jackie Stewart is 'just about every F1 professional'?

Yes, you are indeed wrong. I believe its a racing incident which was bound to happen sooner rather than later. Each of them could have avoided it, but neither blinked (which could be good for future races).

I think LH had more to lose, so maybe a different guy would have taken a bit more care.

If NR really sees himself as a potential champ, then he couldn't let Lewis through. James Allen explains this better than me on his website.

I am not aware of any serious commentator who sees it as anything other than the inevitable first lap incident between these two guys, in these cars at this point in their careers.

[HustleRussell]

Excellent. You're doing great. What were these two posts about then (If not being silly / trying to get a rise out of people)?

deadslow said:

He did, after all, lose control of his car and bounce into his team-mate.

deadslow said:

Yes, Hamilton was entitled to pass. It was Someone Else's fault. The End.

Edited by HustleRussell on Wednesday 18th May 11:54

[deadslow]

HustleRussell said:

Excellent. You're doing great. What were these two posts about then (If not being silly / trying to get a rise out of people)?

deadslow said:

He did, after all, lose control of his car and bounce into his team-mate.

deadslow said:

Yes, Hamilton was entitled to pass. It was Someone Else's fault. The End.

Edited by HustleRussell on Wednesday 18th May 11:54

I didn't realise you had taken it upon yourself to police other's input.

comment 1 is just fact, and intended to show it couldn't be solely Rosgerg's fault.
comment 2 just exasperation at the blinkered views commonly expressed on here.
But you knew that already.

As I say, please do feel free to ignore my posts if they are giving you psychological problems.

[Dr Z]

After looking at the lap times, I'm convinced that Red Bull didn't do anything funny to make Verstappen win, and he won it on merit by having better pace. I plotted the gaps to the other three cars in contention for the win, from Verstappen's perspective below (marked Verstappen pitting on the x-axis):



Vettel and Raikkonen lose a lot of time to Ricciardo and Verstappen, stuck behind Sainz but you can see once they both clear him (arrows 1 and 2), they steadily catch the Red Bulls. Even in the first stint, Ricciardo wasn't exactly running away from Verstappen, the gap just over 1s at the end of the stint.

I'm convinced that Ricciardo pretty much lost the race in the second stint. Firstly, when his gap to Verstappen steadily decreases from 3 sec (L13) to within the 1 sec DRS range (L25). This isn't necessarily because Vettel was putting any pressure on Verstappen...that only happens from lap 19 on (arrow marked 3) but interestingly Vettel continually stays out of DRS range for the remainder of the stint. This suggests that Vettel was content to show himself in Verstappen's mirrors to give him a move on, and was not intending to attack. He was possibly saving his tyres to do what he did at the end of the first stint--to go longer than the Red Bulls in the second stint.

I don't know what Ricciardo was doing to be honest, was he trying to back Verstappen in to Vettel's clutches? If so, it back fired. The deg rate on all three cars in that stint suggests that they weren't pushing very hard. In any case, Ricciardo was again not showing the pace he should in order to win, as clearly by lap 24, Red Bull were getting very concerned about both of their cars being jumped by Vettel when they pit next.

So, they move the slower car out of the way by pitting, and cleverly bait Ferrari in to reacting by putting the Soft tyres on Ricciardo. Ferrari fall for it and end up chasing their tail, focusing on jumping Ricciardo. They do in the end, but Red Bull again do a long enough 3rd stint for Ricciardo to keep Vettel bothered for the rest of the race.

To my mind, if Red Bull were intending to have a faster car at the end to give Ricciardo a chance to win as implied by Horner, they should have gone for a long 3rd stint on the Medium tyre and Soft tyre at the end. But they did not do that. Now, the only threat remaining to a Red Bull win was Raikkonen and whilst he was steadily catching the leading pack, he was far enough away from Verstappen to not be an undercut threat.

I don't believe it when Horner says that they didn't know if Verstappen could make it to the end on those tyres because during Free Practice, the long runs suggested that these cars could do a 1:30 all day long on those tyres, especially for the last stint and that was the pace Verstappen was setting towards the end of the final stint. And the rest is as they say, history.

[NRS]

Thing is DR didn't need to push too much if he didn't want to, since it's such a hard track to pass on. I agree that they gave up one driver to get the win though. They went for two strategies which meant they forced Ferrari to make a decision and covered off an alternative ending depending what happened with safety cars etc. They do tend to go for all or nothing when they get the chance of a win when their car is not the best.

Actually before the race I had posted this:

NRS said:

RB tend to do very well on strategy and tactics near the front end. It could be VERY interesting to see what happens as they will quite happily sacrifice a driver to get a win/ podium for the team. Will either of their drivers being willing to follow orders to help their team mate if asked (for example the potential of whichever one is behind after the first corner stuff sorts itself out to hold up the Ferrari cars if needed so their teammate gets a lead)?

It just developed in a slightly different way to I predicted - using different strategy instead of team orders.

[pc.iow]

deadslow said:

HustleRussell said:

Excellent. You're doing great. What were these two posts about then (If not being silly / trying to get a rise out of people)?

deadslow said:

He did, after all, lose control of his car and bounce into his team-mate.

deadslow said:

Yes, Hamilton was entitled to pass. It was Someone Else's fault. The End.

Edited by HustleRussell on Wednesday 18th May 11:54

I didn't realise you had taken it upon yourself to police other's input.

comment 1 is just fact, and intended to show it couldn't be solely Rosgerg's fault.
comment 2 just exasperation at the blinkered views commonly expressed on here.
But you knew that already.

As I say, please do feel free to ignore my posts if they are giving you psychological problems.

I think what pisses most people off is the constant 'fan-boy' comments you and yours keep trotting out.

[El Guapo]

Some Gump said:

johnfm said:

I think this tells me what I need to know

That you don' take the normal racing line when someone is trying to overtake you?
Come oh John, I know you are a hell of a lot more knowledgeable than this post implies.

I'm with johnfm on this. It's one thing to compromise the line of someone trying to overtake you, quite another to force them onto the grass.

[S0 What]

NJK44 said:

,,, let's hope Rosberg learns how to defend properly.

I doubt he will TBH, the whole leaving room at all times was bought it BECAUSE of Nico, 2012 i think it was ? round 4 possably? when he used the exact same manouver to push LH and Alonso (in speerate incidents) off the track (but onto hard painted run off not grass), kinda ironic no ? lol

[Mr_Thyroid]

johnfm said:

Even in his statement after the incident he claimed the car was in the wrong mode. He fails to admit he put it in that mode.

Who else do you think he thinks we would think put it in that mode?

Try not to get bogged down by semantics.

[Wills2]

El Guapo said:

Some Gump said:

johnfm said:

I think this tells me what I need to know

That you don' take the normal racing line when someone is trying to overtake you?
Come oh John, I know you are a hell of a lot more knowledgeable than this post implies.

I'm with johnfm on this. It's one thing to compromise the line of someone trying to overtake you, quite another to force them onto the grass.

Plus the fact that Nico has form for this (Monaco/spa) there was no need to crowd him off the track.

My feeling is he is so desperate to win the WDC he'll do anything, Lewis is the better driver and he knows his bad luck won't last so has started the silliness again.

[NJK44]

S0 What said:

I doubt he will TBH, the whole leaving room at all times was bought it BECAUSE of Nico, 2012 i think it was ? round 4 possably? when he used the exact same manouver to push LH and Alonso (in speerate incidents) off the track (but onto hard painted run off not grass), kinda ironic no ? lol

Should be called 'The Rosberg Rule'

Equating to, don't be a bellend

[Dr Z]

NRS said:

Thing is DR didn't need to push too much if he didn't want to, since it's such a hard track to pass on. I agree that they gave up one driver to get the win though.

From what I've seen, Rosberg does this sort of thing very well, and so he should--he's used to leading races consistently now for a few years. I'd put Vettel in that camp too. If Ricciardo had kept the gap to Verstappen around 2.5-3 sec throughout that stint, Red Bull would have no excuse and Ricciardo would be well within his rights to be bitter after the race, IMO.

[Flooble]

I'm surprised that people aren't discussing how Hamilton came to have to attempt the overtake in the first place. For the third race this season he gave away his pole position. Not as badly as in the first two, but still he would not have been punted off the track had he managed to actually stay in first place ...

[hairyben]

Flooble said:

I'm surprised that people aren't discussing how Hamilton came to have to attempt the overtake in the first place. For the third race this season he gave away his pole position. Not as badly as in the first two, but still he would not have been punted off the track had he managed to actually stay in first place ...

He got off the line okay.. it was after that rosberg seemed to have a massive power advantage wasn't it?

Either used up all his KERS in one go or (tin foil hat time) the "mode" he was in was a bit naughty and not half as innocent mistake as we've been led to believe hence him distracting himself getting out of it.

[ZX10R NIN]

Wills2 said:

Plus the fact that Nico has form for this (Monaco/spa) there was no need to crowd him off the track.

My feeling is he is so desperate to win the WDC he'll do anything, Lewis is the better driver and he knows his bad luck won't last so has started the silliness again.

I don't agree with this, Lewis was desperate not to let Rosberg complete the first lap in the lead as that would mean he'd win the race as per Mercedes policy plus it would put Nico into the history books & continue his domination, he made a split second decision to go right.

Nico was desperate not to let Lewis lead the first lap as that would mean Lewis would as per Mercedes policy plus it might let Lewis build up momentum, when you watch the on board didn't stop turning right as he came out of the corner he didn't straighten the wheel & then jink right, so that part of the track was always closing to Lewis.

Lewis needed to jink left but he didn't then we had what we had, even Patrick Head said the onus is on the person overtaking to get it done cleanly in this case Lewis didn't, which is unlike Lewis but it's not like Lewis hasn't done exactly what Nico did, Japan anyone even that classic in Bahrain if there had been walls/grass along the side of the track I didn't see Lewis worrying about racing room then.

It was a 50/50 from two guys that didn't want the other to win so both lost but that left us with a decent race.