Daniel Ricciardo

[isaldiri]

Niponeoff said:

isaldiri said:

One decent race weekend doesn't undo seasons of utter dross at Mclaren. If DR can continue on this form into the last few races - fair play to him though.

Maybe watch the link posted above, it explains quite a lot, especially regarding your first sentence.

People can come up with whatever explanation they want to explain why he might be slow but it doesn't change the fact that Ricciardo was thumped at Norris and ended up without a F1 seat until De Vries got binned.

If every other driver could use the 'car didn't suit me that's why I'm slower' then everyone who has been beaten by their team-mate has a ready excuse.

[Muzzer79]

What The Deuces said:

He did ok this weekend, however Tsunoda was right up with him too so it was all car, nothing exceptional on Sunday IMO, was totally mugged by Lando too.

He'd need to be above that level every session not to look a fool in the 2nd RB if he we given the chance

This place boggles the mind sometimes

Tsunoda was only "up right with him" because he took a pit stop on lap 9 and then was massively benefitted by the red flag giving him a free pit stop to change tyres midway through the race. He then binned off that good fortune by crashing into Piastri.

I would remind you aswell that, before this race, AT were plum last in the WCC and therefore, perhaps, one wouldn't expect DR to be able to put up much of a fight with Lando Norris, who was driving a car that has scored 5 second place finishes in the last 9 races?

Edited by Muzzer79 on Monday 30th October 10:26

[What The Deuces]

geeks said:

What The Deuces said:

He did ok this weekend, however Tsunoda was right up with him too so it was all car, nothing exceptional on Sunday IMO, was totally mugged by Lando too.

He'd need to be above that level every session not to look a fool in the 2nd RB if he we given the chance

You mean until Yuki binned it on a desperate move on Piastri. Also with the exception of MV, LH and the two Ferraris, who wasn't mugged by Lando this weekend?

Yuki was still running 8th in sight of DR, so obviously the car was good this weekend. Come on mate its not that hard to see. DR drove well as i said but this weekends result was due to a good car, not an exceptional performance.

Lando made quite a few easy DRS passes against slower cars, i thought DR's defence was a little weak given what was at stake in the constructors.

[Muzzer79]

What The Deuces said:

Yuki was still running 8th in sight of DR

Because of the red flag.

Prior to that he was 10th with Ricciardo running 5th and quite a way up the road.......

[HustleRussell]

What The Deuces said:

Yuki was still running 8th in sight of DR, so obviously the car was good this weekend. Come on mate its not that hard to see. DR drove well as i said but this weekends result was due to a good car, not an exceptional performance.

Lando made quite a few easy DRS passes against slower cars, i thought DR's defence was a little weak given what was at stake in the constructors.

Wrong and condescending at the same time. Interesting.

[MustangGT]

What The Deuces said:

Yuki was still running 8th in sight of DR, so obviously the car was good this weekend. Come on mate its not that hard to see. DR drove well as i said but this weekends result was due to a good car, not an exceptional performance.

Lando made quite a few easy DRS passes against slower cars, i thought DR's defence was a little weak given what was at stake in the constructors.

On the other hand, I thought DRs defence was great and the LN pass on DR should be in contention for overtake of the day.

[geeks]

What The Deuces said:

geeks said:

What The Deuces said:

He did ok this weekend, however Tsunoda was right up with him too so it was all car, nothing exceptional on Sunday IMO, was totally mugged by Lando too.

He'd need to be above that level every session not to look a fool in the 2nd RB if he we given the chance

You mean until Yuki binned it on a desperate move on Piastri. Also with the exception of MV, LH and the two Ferraris, who wasn't mugged by Lando this weekend?

Yuki was still running 8th in sight of DR, so obviously the car was good this weekend. Come on mate its not that hard to see. DR drove well as i said but this weekends result was due to a good car, not an exceptional performance.

Lando made quite a few easy DRS passes against slower cars, i thought DR's defence was a little weak given what was at stake in the constructors.

Isn't that the point though? Good car and potential for a good haul of points and Yuki bins it on a desperate lunge, he was probably going to get past Piastri anyway but he clumsily messed it up. DR had a chance to pass Russell at the end could have gone for a Yuki style desperate move but chose to collect points and bring the car home all the while he had run within sight and in DRS for a while of a Merc (when GR was trying to pass Sainz) for most of the race. As an aside Yuki only got near DR thanks to the Red Flag restart prior to that he was never going to get anywhere near him. Fact remains DR has done 4 races in 2023 and has 6 points, Yuki has done 19 and has 8! All well and good having a car on song but as Max and Checo have proved you need to collect the points when the car works, hence the gap of Max having over double the points of Checo.

I'll ignore the glib comment on Noris on the fact that the commentary teams, pundits and fans all thoroughly disagree with you!

[Dermot O'Logical]

Mexico will often throw up an odd result, or a car which is usually running near the back of the pack will suddenly appear in uncharted territory further up the timesheets.

Mexico's altitude means that Monaco-style wing settings produce Monza levels of downforce, and the engines are strangled slightly, although the latter isn't as much of a factor in the turbo-hybrid era. So a car which usually produces higher levels of downforce, and therefore more drag, will suddenly pick up straight line speed because of the reduction in air density.

Mexico is a one-off circuit in terms of aero setup, it's not necessarily a precursor to an upturn in form for Alpha Tauri, if the car is draggy everywhere else.

Edited by Dermot O'Logical on Monday 30th October 14:43

[asfault]

TheDeuce said:

asfault said:

I've not had great thing to say about Daniel as I just don't rate him but to be fair he did well this weekend . Needs to keep it up though to convince me.

When he first took the seat and instantly beat Yuki fair and square, did you not rate him then, for that?

He's been great this weekend but I would argue that beating his team mate with zero practice was more impressive and more indicative of the potential he still has.

No because equally i didn't write him off at Mclaren until his Austrian GP where Lando had 3 podiums by this point.
And then He was completey trounced by Lando in the 22 season.

[TheDeuce]

asfault said:

TheDeuce said:

asfault said:

I've not had great thing to say about Daniel as I just don't rate him but to be fair he did well this weekend . Needs to keep it up though to convince me.

When he first took the seat and instantly beat Yuki fair and square, did you not rate him then, for that?

He's been great this weekend but I would argue that beating his team mate with zero practice was more impressive and more indicative of the potential he still has.

No because equally i didn't write him off at Mclaren until his Austrian GP where Lando had 3 podiums by this point.
And then He was completey trounced by Lando in the 22 season.

That's really got nothing to do with the current situation. Plainly he struggled in the McLaren, for whatever reason. Luckily his career so far is strong enough that it wasn't ended by that struggle.

That doesn't do anything to explain why he was able to beat Yuki who was by then very used to car, the first time he ever drove it.

Every weekend since then DR has suffered some sort of third party damage to his result. Until this weekend when he got a clean race weekend and excelled again.

What do think about that? Not asking about McLaren... What do you think about him beating Yuki day one and also beating him this weekend with a still damaged hand? Why is he able to do that?

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 30th October 22:32

[asfault]

Well for one i don't really rate Yuki that highly either. He was 3rd I thebseson of f2 thst got him to f1.
He also really got the seat because honda waned a Japanese driver.
I believe I gave my reasons as to why I don't rate Daniel back at old Daniel level yet as a 1 off result means nothing.
Heiki kovelinnon won a race for mclaren but no one rates him as a top tier driver.

[What The Deuces]

TheDeuce said:

.. What do you think about him beating Yuki day one and also beating him this weekend with a still damaged hand? Why is he able to do that?

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 30th October 22:32

Is the benchmark for greatness now measured by being able to just about beat a mildy rubbish Japanese driver who is only there because the engine supplier demanded?

OK

[Muzzer79]

What The Deuces said:

TheDeuce said:

.. What do you think about him beating Yuki day one and also beating him this weekend with a still damaged hand? Why is he able to do that?

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 30th October 22:32

Is the benchmark for greatness now measured by being able to just about beat a mildy rubbish Japanese driver who is only there because the engine supplier demanded?

OK

The first benchmark for any driver is his team-mate. It's the only comparable measure.

Is the benchmark for quality now measured by doing better than qualifying your 10th-place-in-WCC car better than 4th and running in the top 6 every race?

OK.

[Niponeoff]

It's Deuces arguing with himself?

[TheDeuce]

What The Deuces said:

TheDeuce said:

.. What do you think about him beating Yuki day one and also beating him this weekend with a still damaged hand? Why is he able to do that?

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 30th October 22:32

Is the benchmark for greatness now measured by being able to just about beat a mildy rubbish Japanese driver who is only there because the engine supplier demanded?

OK

No, don't be daft.

But beating even a pretty crap driver is impressive of that crap driver has had half the season I the car to practice Vs DR who had never say in it before...

It helps if you keep things in context..

And his showing this weekend was very good. He got the car as high up the order as it can be, failing more top car DNF's.

[Westyn]

He had a great weekend at Mexican GP. A couple of more such performances would surely give a huge boost to his chances of securing a Red Bull seat in the next season or may be in 2025.

[mattdavies]

What The Deuces said:

TheDeuce said:

.. What do you think about him beating Yuki day one and also beating him this weekend with a still damaged hand? Why is he able to do that?

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 30th October 22:32

Is the benchmark for greatness now measured by being able to just about beat a mildy rubbish Japanese driver who is only there because the engine supplier demanded?

OK

What if the benchmark is beating a now WDC in the same car ?

[Purosangue]

What The Deuces said:

TheDeuce said:

.. What do you think about him beating Yuki day one and also beating him this weekend with a still damaged hand? Why is he able to do that?

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 30th October 22:32

Is the benchmark for greatness now measured by being able to just about beat a mildy rubbish Japanese driver who is only there because the engine supplier demanded?

OK

stop it i spilt my tea .............. cant argue with what your saying though

[What The Deuces]

TheDeuce said:

What The Deuces said:

TheDeuce said:

.. What do you think about him beating Yuki day one and also beating him this weekend with a still damaged hand? Why is he able to do that?

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 30th October 22:32

Is the benchmark for greatness now measured by being able to just about beat a mildy rubbish Japanese driver who is only there because the engine supplier demanded?

OK

No, don't be daft.

But beating even a pretty crap driver is impressive of that crap driver has had half the season I the car to practice Vs DR who had never say in it before...

It helps if you keep things in context..

And his showing this weekend was very good. He got the car as high up the order as it can be, failing more top car DNF's.

His showing was decent this weekend, i havent said it wasnt, i still dont think it was brilliant (qualy aside) his team mate could run at the same pace after the Red flag and the car clearly worked very well here. Lets see how he goes the rest of the season, i'd like to see him back to 2018 spec in the RB next year giving it the big un up the inside of the race leader every weekend but i just dont see it at the moment. A man of his experience struggling to beat Yuki is not the mark of greatness....he needs to carry on improving rapidly to get into that RB

[TheDeuce]

What The Deuces said:

TheDeuce said:

What The Deuces said:

TheDeuce said:

.. What do you think about him beating Yuki day one and also beating him this weekend with a still damaged hand? Why is he able to do that?

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 30th October 22:32

Is the benchmark for greatness now measured by being able to just about beat a mildy rubbish Japanese driver who is only there because the engine supplier demanded?

OK

No, don't be daft.

But beating even a pretty crap driver is impressive of that crap driver has had half the season I the car to practice Vs DR who had never say in it before...

It helps if you keep things in context..

And his showing this weekend was very good. He got the car as high up the order as it can be, failing more top car DNF's.

His showing was decent this weekend, i havent said it wasnt, i still dont think it was brilliant (qualy aside) his team mate could run at the same pace after the Red flag and the car clearly worked very well here. Lets see how he goes the rest of the season, i'd like to see him back to 2018 spec in the RB next year giving it the big un up the inside of the race leader every weekend but i just dont see it at the moment. A man of his experience struggling to beat Yuki is not the mark of greatness....he needs to carry on improving rapidly to get into that RB

Personally I don't see any signs he has remotely struggled to beat Yuki - I think he's beaten him soundly as I would expect, on each occasion where both have had a relatively straight-forward race. I'm far from convinced DR will ever get back to his 2018 highs, but I also know that every poor showing he has had this season, there have been external factors at play.