Fixing F1 - tracklimits
Discussion
lots of chat for a while around track limits, kerb design, inconsistent penalties and advantage vs loss.
how do we fix it?
F1 is the pinnacle of technology, the cars are packed with sensors so it should be relatively easy to determine whether a car has exceeded track limits in key areas which are deemed beneficial. Drivers should be able exceed track limits if they need to without risk of flying over bumps and damaging cars or causing an accident. If through the affected sector the driver who has left the track gains a position or is measurably faster than their previous 2-3 laps they should be punished.
I would disable DRS and ERS boost for a determined amount of time/length of track, this should give opportunity for those around them to attack
how do we fix it?
F1 is the pinnacle of technology, the cars are packed with sensors so it should be relatively easy to determine whether a car has exceeded track limits in key areas which are deemed beneficial. Drivers should be able exceed track limits if they need to without risk of flying over bumps and damaging cars or causing an accident. If through the affected sector the driver who has left the track gains a position or is measurably faster than their previous 2-3 laps they should be punished.
I would disable DRS and ERS boost for a determined amount of time/length of track, this should give opportunity for those around them to attack
Personally I think they should look for a solution which doesn't involve artificial penalties but rather has its own implicit penalty by being much slower than staying on the track. Putting a strip of some sort of low-friction surface (rather than tarmac) just outside the kerbs would be a good start - grass would do.
kambites said:
Personally I think they should look for a solution which doesn't involve artificial penalties but rather has its own implicit penalty by being much slower than staying on the track. Putting a strip of some sort of low-friction surface (rather than tarmac) just outside the kerbs would be a good start - grass would do.
Problem with this solutions is tracks aren't just used for F1. Stick a motorcycle on a low friction surface and you're massively increasing the risk of a serious accident.andburg said:
Problem with this solutions is tracks aren't just used for F1. Stick a motorcycle on a low friction surface and you're massively increasing the risk of a serious accident.
If F1 can afford to lay and then remove special carbon reinforced tarmac over cobbles for a fair bit of the Baku circuit every year, I'm sure they could afford to put something slippery over the tarmac just outside the kerbs on the conventional circuits. Most circuits only have a handful of places where it'd be required. What annoys me is the whole thing where a car is allowed to go outside the track limits on certain parts of certain tracks as it is deemed to not be gaining an advantage in that specific area, it should just be a blanket "no going off the track anywhere", unless of course you are pushed or make an obvious mistake.
It's just another F1 thing that makes it that little bit more confusing and not transparent.
It's just another F1 thing that makes it that little bit more confusing and not transparent.
HTP99 said:
What annoys me is the whole thing where a car is allowed to go outside the track limits on certain parts of certain tracks as it is deemed to not be gaining an advantage in that specific area, it should just be a blanket "no going off the track anywhere", unless of course you are pushed or make an obvious mistake.
It's just another F1 thing that makes it that little bit more confusing and not transparent.
I’m with you. It’s a track, stay in the limits at all times at every corner (unless you are pushed/make a mistake/avoiding an incident).It's just another F1 thing that makes it that little bit more confusing and not transparent.
There are enough cameras st an F1 race to cover every single piece of tarmac. If it’s questionable (ie a cm here or there) then the driver gets the benefit of the doubt. Obvious out of track limits. 1 strike. Do it three times. Add a time penalty at the next stop or there finishing time if no more stops. Then another 3 strikes. Repeat but with a more severe time penalty. They will learn not to exceed track limits.
Anything that is just blatant cheating. Just impose a straight time penalty. No 3 strikes.
Cutting engine power/ERS boost could be a safety issue if there's a car close behind. It's hard to think of an artificial surface that could prove slippery enough to deter drivers from running on it.
Perhaps we should go back to natural grass? Maybe even 10ft of grass before the tarmac begins.
Or we could have a 'Tabac' style solution, nobody ever runs wide there...
Perhaps we should go back to natural grass? Maybe even 10ft of grass before the tarmac begins.
Or we could have a 'Tabac' style solution, nobody ever runs wide there...
The Moose said:
I’ve said before, why not have sensors that slow the car down. A bit like Mario kart when you go off the track it’s like driving through treacle?
Agree,,,, from a safety perspective if your off the track you shouldn't be able to affect anyone else..... just drop the power 10% for the time your offending....Oh and Baku pay for the cobbles to be covered.... not F1!
kambites said:
Personally I think they should look for a solution which doesn't involve artificial penalties but rather has its own implicit penalty by being much slower than staying on the track. Putting a strip of some sort of low-friction surface (rather than tarmac) just outside the kerbs would be a good start - grass would do.
What about if they go in the opposite direction and deploy high friction surfaces, to the point where they're so abrasive they slow the cars down and wear the tyres quicker. In fact i'm pretty sure that's what all that stripey tarmac is at the Paul Ricard circuit.Turbojuice said:
I distinctly remember BTCC installing pressure pads in the kerbing on the outside of Graham Hill bend at one point to detect those drivers who disobey the limits.
With a system like that there can be no arguments. F1 should do something similar.
That's not BTCC it's MSV owned circuits. They all have them to police the far stricter UK MSA version of track limits which is all four wheels, not just two as in FIA, must be on the track.With a system like that there can be no arguments. F1 should do something similar.
Jonathan Palmer was getting fed up with the grass on his nice circuits getting torn to shreds every weekend...
Immediately beyond the designated track limit there should be a strip of grass/gravel/something else that will bugger up your lap should you run over it.
That should sort out the deliberate use of areas outside track limits much like a barrier does at Monaco. Beyond that, the tarmac run off should do its job for out of control cars and allow cars to rejoin when they get it really wrong.
The current situation is not satisfactory as it relies on penalties being applied by race stewards which are often inconsistent.
That should sort out the deliberate use of areas outside track limits much like a barrier does at Monaco. Beyond that, the tarmac run off should do its job for out of control cars and allow cars to rejoin when they get it really wrong.
The current situation is not satisfactory as it relies on penalties being applied by race stewards which are often inconsistent.
What about a strip of puddle with tarmac after that? 1 meter or whatever wide water trough (very gently sloped sides so it's only an inch or two deep in the middle)
Car runs wide, slips over water splash strip onto tarmac runoff but can immediately regain control, but now has slightly cooler tyres therefore bit of a penalty especially if they have to lose a few secs being calm for a lap or two to bring them back in, but not a race ruiner, so encouragement to push the limit still there. And as we must, it'd satisfy promoters desires to see more things that look obviously dramatic too...
Motorbikes and other series that dont want it can just pull the plug out.
Car runs wide, slips over water splash strip onto tarmac runoff but can immediately regain control, but now has slightly cooler tyres therefore bit of a penalty especially if they have to lose a few secs being calm for a lap or two to bring them back in, but not a race ruiner, so encouragement to push the limit still there. And as we must, it'd satisfy promoters desires to see more things that look obviously dramatic too...
Motorbikes and other series that dont want it can just pull the plug out.
LP670 said:
what was wrong with grass and gravel traps?
Flat bottomed race cars skate over gravel at speed so no much deceleration.There has been the issue of drivers going off and bringing gravel on to the track.
I don't see why they can't have a 'car width's' strip of gravel/natural grass beyond the kerbs.
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