Firm Suspension, Low Profile tyres etc...
Discussion
I reckon they actually slow you down ! my Saab has fairly low profile tyres and the Sports suspension option (Eibach Springs to replace cracked standard Aero Springs) and I have to pick my way through the local streets to avoid having my teeth rattled out by potholes or bursting a tyre. I had an older Saab 9-3 on the 15 inch wheels and I reckon my average journey time was faster down to much softer suspension and 60 profile tyres, it just used to glide over stuff.
So, is it actually worth going for the sportier suspension/tyres option for the additional feedback and occasional well surfaced B road where it is of benefit.
Do we see people in expensive high end cars and assume they are having loads of fun but are actually getting pummeled and driving everywhere with gritted teeth, things like RS4's etc or do they just cope better than my Saab.
How do those who choose that dumped in the weeds cope, the Saxo Brigage, the Dub scene and the like ?
What cars are there that manage to handle nicely and cope with the current terrible state of the roads that arent off roaders (Saying that, drove an X5 and that weas pretty bad, like a big Golf GTI)
So, is it actually worth going for the sportier suspension/tyres option for the additional feedback and occasional well surfaced B road where it is of benefit.
Do we see people in expensive high end cars and assume they are having loads of fun but are actually getting pummeled and driving everywhere with gritted teeth, things like RS4's etc or do they just cope better than my Saab.
How do those who choose that dumped in the weeds cope, the Saxo Brigage, the Dub scene and the like ?
What cars are there that manage to handle nicely and cope with the current terrible state of the roads that arent off roaders (Saying that, drove an X5 and that weas pretty bad, like a big Golf GTI)
J4CKO said:
I reckon they actually slow you down ! my Saab has fairly low profile tyres and the Sports suspension option (Eibach Springs to replace cracked standard Aero Springs) and I have to pick my way through the local streets to avoid having my teeth rattled out by potholes or bursting a tyre. I had an older Saab 9-3 on the 15 inch wheels and I reckon my average journey time was faster down to much softer suspension and 60 profile tyres, it just used to glide over stuff.
So, is it actually worth going for the sportier suspension/tyres option for the additional feedback and occasional well surfaced B road where it is of benefit.
Do we see people in expensive high end cars and assume they are having loads of fun but are actually getting pummeled and driving everywhere with gritted teeth, things like RS4's etc or do they just cope better than my Saab.
How do those who choose that dumped in the weeds cope, the Saxo Brigage, the Dub scene and the like ?
What cars are there that manage to handle nicely and cope with the current terrible state of the roads that arent off roaders (Saying that, drove an X5 and that weas pretty bad, like a big Golf GTI)
My X5 on 20inch wheels drives much smoother and IS faster A to B in London than Z3M.So, is it actually worth going for the sportier suspension/tyres option for the additional feedback and occasional well surfaced B road where it is of benefit.
Do we see people in expensive high end cars and assume they are having loads of fun but are actually getting pummeled and driving everywhere with gritted teeth, things like RS4's etc or do they just cope better than my Saab.
How do those who choose that dumped in the weeds cope, the Saxo Brigage, the Dub scene and the like ?
What cars are there that manage to handle nicely and cope with the current terrible state of the roads that arent off roaders (Saying that, drove an X5 and that weas pretty bad, like a big Golf GTI)
rottie102 said:
My X5 on 20inch wheels drives much smoother and IS faster A to B in London than Z3M.
Having ridden in a Z3M the impression I got is that the car had no suspension whatsoever! Horrid thing.Skinny tyres on big rims are IMO all about looks and very little to do with performance. Also ruin the ride. I'd never get a saloon car with "sports" suspension. The compromise just doesn't work for me and the car ends up being neither one thing nor another on our lousy UK roads.
I recon my Mondeo handles as good as you'll get on UK roads. 205-55-16 tyres on steel rims, Eibach springs, Monroe Reflex dampers, brand new bushes, ARB links, the lot. The Mk3 Mondeo handles well enough as standard, my carefully selected improvements make it possible to go in to corners faster than you'd think was possible. Yet, it's still more comfortable than the OH's standard i30 on 15" rims.
rottie102 said:
But average UK streets? Softer suspension and bigger tires are always faster.
^ This, when do you ever see taxis slowing down for speedbumbs and potholes? 
I constanly cringe in taxis as the driver aims for a pothole that in my car would bounce my head off the lining and smack my sump into 5 pieces but the old octavia's just bound across.
I've kind'a stopped using my 300ZX, (18"wheels with rubber bands and very stiff suspenders), on my commute in favour of my old airport snotter Laguna estate.
The few weeks I've used it my spine's tried to escape through the top of my head. I might go shopping for some 17" wheels and thicker tyres to see if that makes it a bit more comfortable.
The few weeks I've used it my spine's tried to escape through the top of my head. I might go shopping for some 17" wheels and thicker tyres to see if that makes it a bit more comfortable.
Remember also that the grip of the tyre is proportional to vertical load. Soft suspension allows the wheel and tyre to move up and down over bumps, maintaining a fairly constant load. Hard suspension bounces the car, and the vertical load on the tyres (and therefore grip) varies massively. If you then fit low profile tyres, these flex less than large donut tyres and cause the vertical load to vary even more. This is in addition to ruining the ride quality as mentioned in the OP, punishing the suspension links and chassis, making it easy to damage wheels on kerbs.
This doesn't stop some people from making their road car suspension harder than would be suitable for a racing circuit though.
This doesn't stop some people from making their road car suspension harder than would be suitable for a racing circuit though.
My RR Sport is generally much quicker (and more comfortable) than my old 997S on most roads/short journeys purely because I dont have to dodge potholes, and I can tackle speedbumps at the legal limit.
For this reason, its also more relaxing to drive.
I'd rather have the Carrera on the motorway though.
For this reason, its also more relaxing to drive.
I'd rather have the Carrera on the motorway though.
J4CKO said:
Do we see people in expensive high end cars and assume they are having loads of fun but are actually getting pummeled and driving everywhere with gritted teeth, things like RS4's etc or do they just cope better than my Saab.
A mate of mine just offloaded his RS6 for this very reason - he ended up with a RRS.I bought an E Class with 17's not 18's and switchable air suspension. That way I can have Sport II when I want - and not when battering over the 100's of speedbumps and pot holes that surround me.
A lot of BMW's ride quality are ruined by their low profiles - 330 sports in particular are ruined due to the 35 series rubber, the SE drives better in many ways.
My Integra has little 15" wheels with 50 series rubber, but in winter I use all season tyres that have 65 series rubber - so much better at coping with our pot holed / rutted roads it soaks it up so much better.
OK you can feel it move around a lot more due to the comedy high sidewalls but they are superb for absorbing the bumps and helps protect my alloys having the extra lee-way.
My Integra has little 15" wheels with 50 series rubber, but in winter I use all season tyres that have 65 series rubber - so much better at coping with our pot holed / rutted roads it soaks it up so much better.
OK you can feel it move around a lot more due to the comedy high sidewalls but they are superb for absorbing the bumps and helps protect my alloys having the extra lee-way.
philmots said:
The ride on my ST220 in 40's is super smooth... My OH's 206 GTI is rubbish on 45's!
You do know that those numbers mean percentage of the width of the tyre, not centimetres? 235/40 will have higher sidewall than for example 195/45.Plus bigger, heavier car will always be better at absorbing bumps than smaller, lighter one.
MK_Bob said:
Remember also that the grip of the tyre is proportional to vertical load. Soft suspension allows the wheel and tyre to move up and down over bumps, maintaining a fairly constant load. Hard suspension bounces the car, and the vertical load on the tyres (and therefore grip) varies massively. If you then fit low profile tyres, these flex less than large donut tyres and cause the vertical load to vary even more.
Well that's just wrong.... Softer suspension makes the vehicles oscillations larger and last longer, which means that for more time you have rebound, which is effectively a reduction in vertical load, and larger oscillations mean larger rebounds meaning greater loss in vertical load.I think you may be confusing the properties of hard and soft suspension under cornering with straight line. In a corner harder suspension loads the outer tyre to a greater extent than soft suspension which is not beneficial based on tyre slip angle vs grip.
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