Do winter tyres increase lateral grip?
Discussion
Quick question, do winter tyres increase lateral grip in snowy/icy conditions? I know that traction and braking are improved but my wife and I have both had accidents in snowy/icy conditions in the last week in both our cars and in each case despite driving sensibly, we lost control due to loss of lateral grip.
in my car 3 inches of snow was like driving in the wet, cornering and braking wise, i had no problem driving at normal road speeds even in very thick snow
only sheet ice with fresh snow on needed care
in very cold weather even on dry roads cornering was better, but then the summer conti's contacts i have are bloody terrible tyres
only sheet ice with fresh snow on needed care
in very cold weather even on dry roads cornering was better, but then the summer conti's contacts i have are bloody terrible tyres
I think new winter tyres are a bit more aquirmy as everything moves around more, but they should give more grip than an all season tyre
I remember coming over the Snake Pass a couple of winters ago, Manchester to Sheffield bound, overtaking cars who were struggling in the snow/ice no problem. Came to the end of my road, turned into it and understeered into the kerb. Way too complacent of me, I'd lost the gauge of how much grip there was as conditions had changed.
andy-xr said:
Came to the end of my road, turned into it and understeered into the kerb. Way too complacent of me, I'd lost the gauge of how much grip there was as conditions had changed.
I certainly gave myself a fright driving my wife's supermini which has winter tyres. On comapcted snow I started to turn right into an entrance just as another car was coming out so had to straighten up and then turn much tighter. Car understeered quite dramatically under power although killing the power brought it back.The way that winter tyres are designed would suggest that forward / backward movement of some sort is required to achieve grip in ice or snow conditions. Ignoring the rubber's compound, I don't think lateral grip (in the more strict definition of the word) would be better than an ordinary tyre.
Will try find an image which illustrates my point.
Will try find an image which illustrates my point.
hondansx said:
Does anyone experience really bad braking in the wet conditions of late (with winter tyres)?
Over the last 2 years, I've had a winter tyre test winner, followed by a recommended tyre from a tyre fitter and they are both scary on the brakes!
How warm is it where you are?Over the last 2 years, I've had a winter tyre test winner, followed by a recommended tyre from a tyre fitter and they are both scary on the brakes!
They only really work below 7degrees, any more and you are better off on summer tyres.
Down here in the SW I don't think there has been one day where temperatures stayed below 7 all day, and as such my winter wheel/Dunlop wintersport purchase has been a complete waste of money so far this year.
Pints said:
The way that winter tyres are designed would suggest that forward / backward movement of some sort is required to achieve grip in ice or snow conditions. Ignoring the rubber's compound, I don't think lateral grip (in the more strict definition of the word) would be better than an ordinary tyre.
Will try find an image which illustrates my point.
In the snow/ice they certainly do give more lateral grip. Not just from experience, there is a good (Autocar I think) video doing the rounds where they test a Yeti 4wd on regular tyres plus a FWD version with winter tyres. One of the tests is how quickly they can turn circles on full lock before they start to slide out.Will try find an image which illustrates my point.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/winter-tyres-vs...
hondansx said:
Does anyone experience really bad braking in the wet conditions of late (with winter tyres)?
Over the last 2 years, I've had a winter tyre test winner, followed by a recommended tyre from a tyre fitter and they are both scary on the brakes!
How warm is it where you are?Over the last 2 years, I've had a winter tyre test winner, followed by a recommended tyre from a tyre fitter and they are both scary on the brakes!
They only really work below 7degrees, any more and you are better off on summer tyres.
Down here in the SW I don't think there has been one day where temperatures stayed below 7 all day, and as such my winter wheel/Dunlop wintersport purchase has been a complete waste of money so far this year.
white_goodman said:
Quick question, do winter tyres increase lateral grip in snowy/icy conditions? I know that traction and braking are improved but my wife and I have both had accidents in snowy/icy conditions in the last week in both our cars and in each case despite driving sensibly, we lost control due to loss of lateral grip.
If you mean 'can you go round corners' the answer is yes. Is this in the Impreza? Last time out in the snow in my impreza on summer tyres, it would 'go', cornering had to be done mostly with a steering/accelerator mixture, and braking was useless. This year in the alps in a Legacy on ice/snow and winter tyres, I had huge improvements in all three. I was seriously impressed by how much 'grip' winter tyres give in ice/snow.EFClarity
Edited by Orangecurry on Thursday 30th January 17:29
Roughly speaking in percentage terms.... its the same lateral or longditunal.
Summer tyre on ice its less than 10% of the grip of a summer road
With proper winters its about 25%-45% of total dry grip.
On snow the figures are slightly different but very much dependent on tread depth & tends be in the range of 40-55%. Though a bald linglong summer tyre will be about the same as being on ice.
Generally you could drive round "quite normally" on winters in snowy conditions & not struggle for grip at all. Some cars I have owned on decent winters you could not make them loose grip without quite a bit of bravado. I have driven up & down some pretty darn steep hills that you could not stand up on in normal footwear, our Golf in particular was astounding at steep hills on Kumho snowies.
Summer tyre on ice its less than 10% of the grip of a summer road
With proper winters its about 25%-45% of total dry grip.
On snow the figures are slightly different but very much dependent on tread depth & tends be in the range of 40-55%. Though a bald linglong summer tyre will be about the same as being on ice.
Generally you could drive round "quite normally" on winters in snowy conditions & not struggle for grip at all. Some cars I have owned on decent winters you could not make them loose grip without quite a bit of bravado. I have driven up & down some pretty darn steep hills that you could not stand up on in normal footwear, our Golf in particular was astounding at steep hills on Kumho snowies.
Lucas Ayde said:
In the snow/ice they certainly do give more lateral grip. Not just from experience, there is a good (Autocar I think) video doing the rounds where they test a Yeti 4wd on regular tyres plus a FWD version with winter tyres. One of the tests is how quickly they can turn circles on full lock before they start to slide out.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/winter-tyres-vs...
Fair enough. I stand corrected. http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/winter-tyres-vs...
Orangecurry said:
If you mean 'can you go round corners' the answer is yes. Is this in the Impreza? Last time out in the snow in my impreza on summer tyres, it would 'go', cornering had to be done mostly with a steering/accelerator mixture, and braking was useless. This year in the alps in a Legacy on ice/snow and winter tyres, I had huge improvements in all three. I was seriously impressed by how much 'grip' winter tyres give in ice/snow.
EFClarity
Never had any problems in the Impreza in the snow. I was in a Jeep Grand Cherokee and my wife in a FWD Chrysler (need to update my info). Both are on all-season tyres. I don't really have any traction or braking issues in the Jeep unless in really deep snow. Lots of wheelspin in the FWD car though! I expect newer vehicles with ESP may have helped us out a bit more!EFClarity
Edited by Orangecurry on Thursday 30th January 17:29
HertsBiker said:
What happened, and what brand of tyres?
Both cars on all-season tyres. The Jeep on Michelins I think and the car (FWD) on Hankooks. My wife hit a patch of ice in the car whilst accelerating, fishtailed for 150 yards and slid off the road sideways and I hit a snow drift which unbalanced the Jeep and then another before the suspension had fully recovered and slewed into the ditch. Both cars required a tow out but fortunately no damage to us or the cars! white_goodman said:
Both cars on all-season tyres. The Jeep on Michelins I think and the car (FWD) on Hankooks. My wife hit a patch of ice in the car whilst accelerating, fishtailed for 150 yards and slid off the road sideways and I hit a snow drift which unbalanced the Jeep and then another before the suspension had fully recovered and slewed into the ditch. Both cars required a tow out but fortunately no damage to us or the cars!
if she fishtailed for 150 yards I might suggest the gas pedal was being pressed too hard for the conditions?Also I rather suspect that for a canadian winter you would be better off with proper winter tyres, I am not sure that all seasons are as good as full on winters in -25 or whatever you have been enjoying for the last few weeks, although if you have had some of that frozen rain creating a thick layer of ice on everything, no amount of tyre tech is going to save you
Edited by sawman on Thursday 30th January 19:19
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