Winter vs summer tyres - comprehensive review?

[Dan Friel]

There's plenty on the forums about the benefits of winter tyres in extreme conditions, but I haven't been able to find any independent tests that cover each of the following scenarios:

1.    Extreme winter conditions - obviously the winter tyre will excel.
2.    Intermediate conditions (normal winter, possibly damp conditions) - what are the actual benefits?
3.    Fine winter conditions (dry roads reasonable temps) - how bad are winter tyres in comparison with good summer tyres.

Seems to me that everything focuses on the extreme conditions, but always ignores the "normal" conditions. Perhaps it's been covered before, but I haven't been able to find anything that covers the above.

[Daaaveee]

From my limited understanding, winter tyres are better than summer tyres below 7c, which is most of the time during winter. SO you don't have to be driving in snow all the time to see a benefit.

[Dog Star]

Dan Friel said:

Seems to me that everything focuses on the extreme conditions, but always ignores the "normal" conditions. Perhaps it's been covered before, but I haven't been able to find anything that covers the above.

You'll find, if you read a bit more, that the "winter" tyres work much much better then normal/summer when temperatures are below about 7 degrees - so basically mid-October through to March.

[NorthernBoy]

In London it's above 7 degrees for much of the winter, so winter tyres here are about as good as normal tyres much of the time, worse for a decent amount of time, and a bit better for a small amount of the time.

There's no harm in fitting them here, but not all that much advantage either, and there's no way in he'll that they should be mandatory.

It'd probably be better in general to spend the money on some advanced driving lessons.

[HellDiver]

NorthernBoy said:

In London

There is more to the UK than London.

[NorthernBoy]

HellDiver said:

NorthernBoy said:

In London

There is more to the UK than London.

What a stupid comment. Of course there is, but that doesn't mean that there's no point mentioning the situation here.

If I lived in Aberdeen I'd have likely posted instead about how useful cold weather tyres are for much of the winter there. Would you have posted a similar comment in response to that?

Edited by NorthernBoy on Monday 4th October 10:28

[HellDiver]

NorthernBoy said:

HellDiver said:

NorthernBoy said:

In London

There is more to the UK than London.

What a stupid comment.

I was getting in before the 30-odd posts from Londoneers and those who liv on the south coast who think that the whole of the UK is the same as where they live, and that winter tyres are pointless. Which they clearly aren't for anyone who live in the northerly end of the UK.

[NorthernBoy]

Yes, I can see it's better to get a pointless post in early, instead of taking a few minutes to add something of value.

Are you going to post something that adds to the discussion now, or is the above inanity all that you had fir us?

[Scraggles]

nice idea, but with no garage, where am I and anyone who lives in a flat supposed to put the winter / summer tyres when they are changed ?

when every winter is well below 7 C for a good few months like in sweden or denmark, might be worth it

[nbetts]

I used to read the whole winter tyre thing from afar - and enjoyed the banter between the 'Tis all down to driver skill' brigade and the 'Optimum tyre for conditions' brigade.

Anyway, that was then. Nowadays I am truly converted. My friend and I took a drive from good Old Blighty last December (think frozen Eurostar trains stuck in tunnels - we got the last Shuttle out before the closures) to VW Wolfsburg, for a Factory Visit. He is a big VW buff and he decided he wanted to drive his 4WD R32 Golf to the factory from whence it came - so we set off...

Cue, massive snowfalls and temperatures as low as -18 degrees C in the Fatherland -
My point?
Simple, we were riding on the normal summer performance OEM tyre that ships with the 4WD R32 to the UK - and we could not go anywhere without major difficulty - how we ever got into the Town of Kassel without a major incident I am still amazed at to this day. I was astonished at the numerous BMW 1,3,5 series flying past us in the treachorous conditions and pulling to a controlled stop at every street corner - where, by way of comparison, in the 4WD Golf had to plan our every move about 5 minutes in advance. And we all know the RWD Beemers are crap in the snow - I have one.

With much head scratching - I asked one of the locals in his rear wheel drive 1 - series how the hell he was finding it so easy to get about - I drive a 1-Series in the UK and the slightest dusting of snow and you may as well walk - The German Local, who laughed at us 'Crazy Englishmen' the words "Winter Reifen"

Winter Reifen is German for, yes you guessed it, Winter Tyres.

So we booked an appointment in Reifen.com in the town of Kassel and had our winter reifen fitted to the car and the summer tyres stashed into the back of the Golf in tyre bags...

The rest is history as they say. The transformation from the Summer to Winter Tyres was like Night and Day. We could drive normally everywhere, pull-up at a junction without planning. Conduct lane manouveres without thinking of the Final Will and testament... and all that bum-clenching terror just dissapeared.

We returned from Germany - to a Snow covered Blighty. Where I tried to move my 1-Series BMW shod with Summer run-flats off of my mates drive in Tunbridge Wells - only to find the car would not get off the drive due to lack of grip. It stayed there for another week.

So there you have it.

I have ordered my Winter Reifen/Tyres already for my Beemer and they will go on - in a few weeks time when the weather has chilled a bit further.

Optimal tyres for conditions should always be on your car. Below 7 Degrees C - Winter Tyres are better suited. Not to mention Snow and ice.

Edited by nbetts on Monday 4th October 11:06

[NDT]

Are you going to carry on swapping tyres on the same rims or get a spare set of wheels?

[nbetts]

NDT said:

Are you going to carry on swapping tyres on the same rims or get a spare set of wheels?

Set of new wheels makes life much easier - and I have the space to stash them.

[Larry Dickman]

Where does this 7 degrees actually come from? I was looking for tyres online the other night & noticed the site I was on said 5 degrees. Surely, as with anything tyre related, there are too many variables to pinpoint a temperature, & what are the percentages of lost tyre performance under that temperature? Also, I was always lead to believe that the temperature of tyres increase when driving, probably not by much on your daily commute in traffic, but still, I've never seen anyone comment on this in the many winter tyre threads & I am interested in what the experts opinion is.

As I've said in other threads, I have nothing against winter tyres & I understand the safety aspects of them, but I do think there's a lot of daily mailish, we're all going to die under 7 degrees, type of attitude going on.

[Zod]

NorthernBoy said:

In London it's above 7 degrees for much of the winter, so winter tyres here are about as good as normal tyres much of the time, worse for a decent amount of time, and a bit better for a small amount of the time.

Not correct. It is indeed above 7 degrees during the middle of the day for much of the winter, but in the mornings, it is 7 degrees or below on most days from late November through to mid-March.

[jon-]

Yes. I'm working on converting the autobild all season tyre test which included a summer and winter tyre, I'll link it once it's done but here are the headline stats you're after.

Snow: Summer tyre offered 48% braking and 51% of the cornering of winter
Warm wet: Winter tyre offered 90% braking and 95% cornering of the summer tyre
Dry: Winter tyre offered 83% braking and 97% of the cornering

[Dan Friel]

That's exactly the sort of test I'm looking for..

[NDT]

jon- said:

Yes. I'm working on converting the autobild all season tyre test which included a summer and winter tyre, I'll link it once it's done but here are the headline stats you're after.

Snow: Summer tyre offered 48% braking and 51% of the cornering of winter
Warm wet: Winter tyre offered 90% braking and 95% cornering of the summer tyre
Dry: Winter tyre offered 83% braking and 97% of the cornering

It's interesting that the winter tyre didn't outperform the summer tyre in warm wet conditions. The summer tyre obviously does enough of a good job of clearing water off the surface to allow the softer rubber to take effect.

[Ozzie Osmond]

IMO for 99% of the UK it's a better plan to buy one really good quality set of tyres so you don't have to,

- fiddle about changing wheels when the sun comes out
- find somewhere to keep a very large pile of unused wheels all year round
- spend a great deal of money buying two sets of wheels and tyres.

Oviously doesn't apply if you live in a frozen wasteland....

[Zod]

NDT said:

jon- said:

Yes. I'm working on converting the autobild all season tyre test which included a summer and winter tyre, I'll link it once it's done but here are the headline stats you're after.

Snow: Summer tyre offered 48% braking and 51% of the cornering of winter
Warm wet: Winter tyre offered 90% braking and 95% cornering of the summer tyre
Dry: Winter tyre offered 83% braking and 97% of the cornering

It's interesting that the winter tyre didn't outperform the summer tyre in warm wet conditions. The summer tyre obviously does enough of a good job of clearing water off the surface to allow the softer rubber to take effect.

"Warm wet" conditions. In cold wet conditions, the winter tyre will outperform by a significant margin.

[jon-]

NDT said:

jon- said:

Yes. I'm working on converting the autobild all season tyre test which included a summer and winter tyre, I'll link it once it's done but here are the headline stats you're after.

Snow: Summer tyre offered 48% braking and 51% of the cornering of winter
Warm wet: Winter tyre offered 90% braking and 95% cornering of the summer tyre
Dry: Winter tyre offered 83% braking and 97% of the cornering

It's interesting that the winter tyre didn't outperform the summer tyre in warm wet conditions. The summer tyre obviously does enough of a good job of clearing water off the surface to allow the softer rubber to take effect.

The tracks were "hot" (I'm awaiting the actual temperature) but under the test conditions I would have imagined the winter tyre would have overheated.

The summer tyre also did a better job of aquaplaning than the all season or winter.