RE: McLaren MP4-12C, Now With Added 'Phwoarr'
Discussion
So Mclaren have taken onboard all the comments from the motoring press and reacted to it by altering the product. This, is very very good.
I can't see Ferrari doing anything like that. EVER. I'm sure the situation would be very different, as in the magazine/journo would know that if they slated the product of the Prancing Horse, chances are, they'd never get to drive another...
I can't see Ferrari doing anything like that. EVER. I'm sure the situation would be very different, as in the magazine/journo would know that if they slated the product of the Prancing Horse, chances are, they'd never get to drive another...
toppstuff said:
The disappointing thing is that the press fail to understand this. When they go blathering on about passion and all that guff, while testing sideways on a track a car they did not spend their own money on, they are not speaking for a significant minority of potential buyers. There are people who want something different and EVO is not speaking for them, but instead falling for the usual supercar cliches - the very cliches that some people want to avoid.
Quite. I don't even understand the whole obsession with going sideways anyway - it has absolutely no place on the public road and if a Police Officer caught you at it you'd very likely have your collar felt and be up for a Road Traffic Offence of some sort. However, you'd think from the likes of Chris Harris and Jeremy Clarkson that going sideways is the ONLY way to drive. It isn't - it's slower, noisier, way more dangerous (inasmuch as you are by definition on the edge of the envelope and nearer to spinning compared to not drifting), and you're shagging your tyres.
"But it's fun" as I'm sure some will reply to this. And I'm sure it is, but it still has no place on the public road.
So when reviewing a road car that will be used for road driving, why concentrate on how well it does on non-road driving on a race track?
toppstuff said:
But the "loud , outlandish sideways supercar" thing is already covered by Ferrari and Lamborghini. For some people this is the "be all and end all of supercar ownership" as you put it. And its well covered.
Mclaren are taking their own path. And the press have effectively tried to benchmark them to the same old criteria and criticised them for not doing the same thing. The Mclaren IS different ( to a 458 for example) . But different does not equal second best.
The disappointing thing is that the press fail to understand this. When they go blathering on about passion and all that guff, while testing sideways on a track a car they did not spend their own money on, they are not speaking for a significant minority of potential buyers. There are people who want something different and EVO is not speaking for them, but instead falling for the usual supercar cliches - the very cliches that some people want to avoid.
Excellent post. Mclaren are taking their own path. And the press have effectively tried to benchmark them to the same old criteria and criticised them for not doing the same thing. The Mclaren IS different ( to a 458 for example) . But different does not equal second best.
The disappointing thing is that the press fail to understand this. When they go blathering on about passion and all that guff, while testing sideways on a track a car they did not spend their own money on, they are not speaking for a significant minority of potential buyers. There are people who want something different and EVO is not speaking for them, but instead falling for the usual supercar cliches - the very cliches that some people want to avoid.
geoffracing said:
Hideous dashboard, and when you think you'll see more of it than of the outside...
The rear is complicated and also ugly.
The rest is so melted-chewing-gum...
Far too soft design; it is lacking a little something masculine, perhaps 1 straight line somewhere ?
Yet despite all that it looks 10x more elegant than the car that everyone seems to be obsessed with comparing it to.The rear is complicated and also ugly.
The rest is so melted-chewing-gum...
Far too soft design; it is lacking a little something masculine, perhaps 1 straight line somewhere ?
Limpet said:
The styling of the MP4-12C in that lurid orange of the early press cars never did it for me, but it looks properly stunning to my eyes in these pics. How can a less dramatic colour make a car look more dramatic?
I'd say this darkish red is elegant and even a bit mysterious, while orange is always vulgar!
geoffracing said:
Hideous dashboard, and when you think you'll see more of it than of the outside...
The rear is complicated and also ugly.
The rest is so melted-chewing-gum...
Far too soft design; it is lacking a little something masculine, perhaps 1 straight line somewhere ?
i think it's one of the nicest interiors i've seen for a very long time. it's simple, and not complicated by 1 million buttons. the 458 interior is a complete mess in comparisonThe rear is complicated and also ugly.
The rest is so melted-chewing-gum...
Far too soft design; it is lacking a little something masculine, perhaps 1 straight line somewhere ?
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lovely and simple, just how it should be.
messy IMO:
All of the head to heads I've read have stated that the 458 is much more enjoyable and desirable car. And in some of the reviews it's faster round the track. McLaren developed the MP412C at the Topgear track, so I think that time should be removed from the TG powerlaps board.
From my point of view, and most reviewers it seems, the looks and sound alone of the 458 make it without rival.
It is a masterpiece, enjoy it.
From my point of view, and most reviewers it seems, the looks and sound alone of the 458 make it without rival.
It is a masterpiece, enjoy it.
10 Pence Short said:
I would imagine McLaren have taken far more feedback from prospective and actual owners who have tried the car than paying particular heed to the press.
The tweaks are small time, low cost high impact with no issue against delivery times, so why not?
If they had wanted to build a car designed to emotionally engage like a pantomime Ferrari, they surely would have done- their own research dictated that wasn't necessary. All they have done in this instance is make small changes to further enhance the experience.
yes,seems Mr Metcalfe wants to take all the credit,but as you say many customers made these points at the customers days in april,i myself thought the paddles were a bit stiff,and couldnt push them to change gear,only pull them.The tweaks are small time, low cost high impact with no issue against delivery times, so why not?
If they had wanted to build a car designed to emotionally engage like a pantomime Ferrari, they surely would have done- their own research dictated that wasn't necessary. All they have done in this instance is make small changes to further enhance the experience.
This had been changed a few months earlier after lewis and jenson wanted it firming up.
A few of the guys there who ran NA cars also wanted more noise,but being used to turbos,i thought it was impressive enough. So i think many of the tweeks were already on the way.
But afterall its more impressive to use this as PR for the mags after the test results ,than keeping it to just the customers,so Harry can have his moment of glory.
As for the better induction noise into the cabin,this will only be in track and sports mode,so still great for a DD,which suits me as i can really only afford this one car as an enthusiast selling everything to own one!!
I like both EVO and Top Gear, and regard both as good entertainment. That is what they are though good entertainment not gospel. If I ever find myself in the fortunate position of being able to afford a 458 or the McLaren I will do what I did when I recently ordered my Audi S3:
1. Ignore what Clarkson says (all Audi drivers are c0cks)
2. Ignore what EVO says (most Audi’s are too clinical and lacking driver involvement)
3. Take an extended (3 day) test drive in all the cars I am interested in (S3, Golf R, Focus RS)
4. Order the one I prefer.
At The CPOP on Saturday I saw both a 458 and the McLaren, both of which look stunning. My favourite car of the day? Probably one of the two T350 TVRs I saw.
1. Ignore what Clarkson says (all Audi drivers are c0cks)
2. Ignore what EVO says (most Audi’s are too clinical and lacking driver involvement)
3. Take an extended (3 day) test drive in all the cars I am interested in (S3, Golf R, Focus RS)
4. Order the one I prefer.
At The CPOP on Saturday I saw both a 458 and the McLaren, both of which look stunning. My favourite car of the day? Probably one of the two T350 TVRs I saw.
alock said:
Or888t said:
Sorry but Ferrari beats McLaren. What are you on about. the macca is better in everyway, except from so called 'soul' or whatever.
Almost every modern car will be better in every measurable way than a MK1 Capri, and yet you still chose to use a picture of one in your profile and have one in your fantasy garage.If you stand back and think why you like the Capri, you'll understand what people mean by the 'soul' of a car.
Murcielago_Boy said:
toppstuff said:
But the "loud , outlandish sideways supercar" thing is already covered by Ferrari and Lamborghini. For some people this is the "be all and end all of supercar ownership" as you put it. And its well covered.
Mclaren are taking their own path. And the press have effectively tried to benchmark them to the same old criteria and criticised them for not doing the same thing. The Mclaren IS different ( to a 458 for example) . But different does not equal second best.
The disappointing thing is that the press fail to understand this. When they go blathering on about passion and all that guff, while testing sideways on a track a car they did not spend their own money on, they are not speaking for a significant minority of potential buyers. There are people who want something different and EVO is not speaking for them, but instead falling for the usual supercar cliches - the very cliches that some people want to avoid.
Excellent post. Mclaren are taking their own path. And the press have effectively tried to benchmark them to the same old criteria and criticised them for not doing the same thing. The Mclaren IS different ( to a 458 for example) . But different does not equal second best.
The disappointing thing is that the press fail to understand this. When they go blathering on about passion and all that guff, while testing sideways on a track a car they did not spend their own money on, they are not speaking for a significant minority of potential buyers. There are people who want something different and EVO is not speaking for them, but instead falling for the usual supercar cliches - the very cliches that some people want to avoid.
I've been mulling over the comments about this being a supercar you can drive every day.
I cant and may never be able to afford to buy a supercar but if I did I would want it to be an event every time I drive it.
If you want a "clinical" daily driver supercar why not just buy 911 turbo and save a fortune?
The last thing in the world I would want is something that feels like a faster version of the clinically efficiant BMW/Audi etc etc on my driveway.
I'd want it to be characterful, mad, intimidating, noisy and all the things that my everyday car isnt.
I used to have a TVR S3 and it was an event everytime I drove it and always put a smile on my face (even though the wing mirror kept falling off!) but I would never have used it as a daily and I think it would have diluted the enjoyment I got from the car if I had.
I find the idea of buying a "supercar" and finding it feels like a faster, lower S class Merc (if you see what I mean) quite depressing and pointless.
I cant and may never be able to afford to buy a supercar but if I did I would want it to be an event every time I drive it.
If you want a "clinical" daily driver supercar why not just buy 911 turbo and save a fortune?
The last thing in the world I would want is something that feels like a faster version of the clinically efficiant BMW/Audi etc etc on my driveway.
I'd want it to be characterful, mad, intimidating, noisy and all the things that my everyday car isnt.
I used to have a TVR S3 and it was an event everytime I drove it and always put a smile on my face (even though the wing mirror kept falling off!) but I would never have used it as a daily and I think it would have diluted the enjoyment I got from the car if I had.
I find the idea of buying a "supercar" and finding it feels like a faster, lower S class Merc (if you see what I mean) quite depressing and pointless.
Nope i havent driven one.... probably never will so i will not comment on the driving dynamics et al...
But by god that looks good in those photo's. The styling is refrained and classic, just looks "right"
the 458 is another great looking car but will date far more rapidly than the macca. 430's look very dated now... the macca F1 looks fantastic despite being much older.
But by god that looks good in those photo's. The styling is refrained and classic, just looks "right"
the 458 is another great looking car but will date far more rapidly than the macca. 430's look very dated now... the macca F1 looks fantastic despite being much older.
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