RE: PH Carpool: Porsche 911 Carrera RS (964)
Discussion
thewheelman said:
J4CKO said:
Great thing about the 944 is that mortals can afford it and the fact it is even being compared to something like this is high praise, it says a lot for my chances of getting something like this when a cheap LHD one is 30 grand. I guess a RHD model from a dealers is going to be fifty grand with the associated costs to run it.
For me a 944 made sense as I have a thing for well aged Pork and a tidy 944 cab is what I could afford and have a fighting chance of not binning in comparison to this, suspect it is one for the absolute afficiando who has owned plenty of 911's and not for the uninitiated/cack handed/realtively poor, i.e. me, don't write the 944 off as being boring as it just isn't, or maybe some of us arent quite ready for a fifty grand white knuckle ride just yet.
Driven, bought & sold countless Porsches. Trust me, a 944 is not even close to being anywhere near as good as even a base 964.......it just isn't. The best front engine Porsche was the 968, & i'd still take a base 964 over that. For me a 944 made sense as I have a thing for well aged Pork and a tidy 944 cab is what I could afford and have a fighting chance of not binning in comparison to this, suspect it is one for the absolute afficiando who has owned plenty of 911's and not for the uninitiated/cack handed/realtively poor, i.e. me, don't write the 944 off as being boring as it just isn't, or maybe some of us arent quite ready for a fifty grand white knuckle ride just yet.
I drove a 964 turbo in Geneva on a streaming wet day a few years back, got talking with a family member on my wife's side about cars and he introduced me to his PA whose husband had said car (amongst others) and I expressed my appreciation, following day he turns up in it and gives me a (scary) run in it, pulls into a layby and jumps out and says "ok your turn" with a hangover and that made me realise you really need to know what you are doing, he made it look easy and I wasnt by any means going for it but I got a couple of opportunities to get an idea, could get an amazing amount of power down considering it was wet but if too abrupt with the throttle it did seem to warn you it was about to kill you by twitching.
Not sure that I am not a bit too much of a scaredy cat for old school 911's, both in financial terms and the handling, think I may be more of a 996 turbo kind of guy
J4CKO said:
Think you missed my point to a certain extent, My 944 S2 is better than any 964 that I can afford, which would be fron the Dinky, Corgi or Tamiya ranges. These were way more expensive when new so it stands to reason its going to be better, I think for a fairly inexperienced driver like myself, in terms of fast RWD stuff a 944 is a better place to start than a hardcore 911 variant.
I drove a 964 turbo in Geneva on a streaming wet day a few years back, got talking with a family member on my wife's side about cars and he introduced me to his PA whose husband had said car (amongst others) and I expressed my appreciation, following day he turns up in it and gives me a (scary) run in it, pulls into a layby and jumps out and says "ok your turn" with a hangover and that made me realise you really need to know what you are doing, he made it look easy and I wasnt by any means going for it but I got a couple of opportunities to get an idea, could get an amazing amount of power down considering it was wet but if too abrupt with the throttle it did seem to warn you it was about to kill you by twitching.
Not sure that I am not a bit too much of a scaredy cat for old school 911's, both in financial terms and the handling, think I may be more of a 996 turbo kind of guy
Didn't they come to a similar conclusion in 'CAR' sometime back?I drove a 964 turbo in Geneva on a streaming wet day a few years back, got talking with a family member on my wife's side about cars and he introduced me to his PA whose husband had said car (amongst others) and I expressed my appreciation, following day he turns up in it and gives me a (scary) run in it, pulls into a layby and jumps out and says "ok your turn" with a hangover and that made me realise you really need to know what you are doing, he made it look easy and I wasnt by any means going for it but I got a couple of opportunities to get an idea, could get an amazing amount of power down considering it was wet but if too abrupt with the throttle it did seem to warn you it was about to kill you by twitching.
Not sure that I am not a bit too much of a scaredy cat for old school 911's, both in financial terms and the handling, think I may be more of a 996 turbo kind of guy
930 vs 944
The 944 Turbo was less liable to bite you but the 930 was more 'raw'?
Edited by s m on Tuesday 31st January 21:52
Its interesting to read the air vs. watercooled debate.
FWIW around 7 years ago I took money in my hand to go and buy a lhd 964RS. It had a track biased set-up and a fresh motor. I was allowed out in it for 40 minutes or so, and took on the highways and byways of Oxfordshire. It was intensely exciting but it became tiresome quickly, with harsh suspension, ridiculous tramlining, loads of noise, wierd driving position, poor ventilation and heavy steering. While quick, it was always felt about a tenth of a second from throwing me in a ditch, so trying to get WOT was a battle. It was just a lousy road car, and after half an hour I realised that in spite of the hype I just wasn't enjoying myself.
I hopped back in my old 968CS for an early evening 60 miles run back home, and had one of the best drives of my life. The 968's fantastic balance meant I could really commit without getting bitten, and enjoy gentle slides on slower corners. At the same time it was quiet enough on the dual carriageways and quick enough for A road overtaking. And in Maritime blue it looked fabulous. So I stuck the RS money back in my account.
Oh, I could have bought that 964 for £25k.
SS7
FWIW around 7 years ago I took money in my hand to go and buy a lhd 964RS. It had a track biased set-up and a fresh motor. I was allowed out in it for 40 minutes or so, and took on the highways and byways of Oxfordshire. It was intensely exciting but it became tiresome quickly, with harsh suspension, ridiculous tramlining, loads of noise, wierd driving position, poor ventilation and heavy steering. While quick, it was always felt about a tenth of a second from throwing me in a ditch, so trying to get WOT was a battle. It was just a lousy road car, and after half an hour I realised that in spite of the hype I just wasn't enjoying myself.
I hopped back in my old 968CS for an early evening 60 miles run back home, and had one of the best drives of my life. The 968's fantastic balance meant I could really commit without getting bitten, and enjoy gentle slides on slower corners. At the same time it was quiet enough on the dual carriageways and quick enough for A road overtaking. And in Maritime blue it looked fabulous. So I stuck the RS money back in my account.
Oh, I could have bought that 964 for £25k.
SS7
Bought my 1992 Cup car in 2002- never been registered - at the Porsche RS day Oulton Park. 10years on it's going no where!
£22K....now agreed value £105K.... don't mind the 3 engine builds, gearbox and diff builds with that sort of value.
However it's all a matter of who will actually pay that sort of crackers money for an RS.
I was offered 105K Euro for it, in June of this year by a German dealer.
It's in my will!
Now who's fitting 285's to the back of their RS, i would be very interested to know? Never tried them on mine but the 265's with the 10" X 18" and a 5mm spacer are very tight.
£22K....now agreed value £105K.... don't mind the 3 engine builds, gearbox and diff builds with that sort of value.
However it's all a matter of who will actually pay that sort of crackers money for an RS.
I was offered 105K Euro for it, in June of this year by a German dealer.
It's in my will!
Now who's fitting 285's to the back of their RS, i would be very interested to know? Never tried them on mine but the 265's with the 10" X 18" and a 5mm spacer are very tight.
RSCUP said:
Now who's fitting 285's to the back of their RS, i would be very interested to know? Never tried them on mine but the 265's with the 10" X 18" and a 5mm spacer are very tight.
Well, I am.Yes it's very tight but they do fit and never rub, even on the Nordschleife. The camber is extreme though - and I think the arches were mildly rolled.
s m said:
Didn't they come to a similar conclusion in 'CAR' sometime back?
964 vs 944
The 944 Turbo was less liable to bite you but the 964 was more 'raw'?
Thats a 930 not a 964 - Good find, though. Love the 928 in gear figures. Quick car964 vs 944
The 944 Turbo was less liable to bite you but the 964 was more 'raw'?
Edited by HAB on Tuesday 31st January 21:44
Just wondering how many folk that comment on the 911's dodgy handling have actually driven one in anger, or even sat in the passenger seat. I do feel that a lot of 'armchair' experts listen to and believe the ramblings of the like of our dear 'Jeremy C' and the likes.
I'll agree that in the wet or slippery conditions an older 911 (2WD up to and including the 3.2 Carrera)is to be treated with respect. However, in the dry, and driven properly with a good set of tyres on, there is little on the road that will match there ability to corner quickly through a country winding road.
And yes, I've got one ('88 3.2 Carrera) so I do know what they are like. The 964RS will be the same, if not even better.
Not sure that I am not a bit too much of a scaredy cat for old school 911's, both in financial terms and the handling, think I may be more of a 996 turbo kind of guy
[/quote]
I'll agree that in the wet or slippery conditions an older 911 (2WD up to and including the 3.2 Carrera)is to be treated with respect. However, in the dry, and driven properly with a good set of tyres on, there is little on the road that will match there ability to corner quickly through a country winding road.
And yes, I've got one ('88 3.2 Carrera) so I do know what they are like. The 964RS will be the same, if not even better.
Not sure that I am not a bit too much of a scaredy cat for old school 911's, both in financial terms and the handling, think I may be more of a 996 turbo kind of guy
[/quote]
[quote=cjb1]Just wondering how many folk that comment on the 911's dodgy handling have actually driven one in anger, or even sat in the passenger seat. I do feel that a lot of 'armchair' experts listen to and believe the ramblings of the like of our dear 'Jeremy C' and the likes.
I'll agree that in the wet or slippery conditions an older 911 (2WD up to and including the 3.2 Carrera)is to be treated with respect. However, in the dry, and driven properly with a good set of tyres on, there is little on the road that will match there ability to corner quickly through a country winding road.
And yes, I've got one ('88 3.2 Carrera) so I do know what they are like. The 964RS will be the same, if not even better.
In my experience of the 964RS it is badly hobbled by it's suspension set up on the road. Lets face it - there are few billiard table surfaces in the UK and even then there is no way you can turn in to a corner with the same speed of an inherently better balaced car, not to mention a typical bumpy B road where the tyres are making a nodding aquaintance with tarmac and your bouncing around like a jack hammer on amphetamines. Yes - I do get the 911 thing, they are a challenge and have some unique characteristics,but on a typical B road you wouldnt see which way a well driven fast Seven went.
I'll agree that in the wet or slippery conditions an older 911 (2WD up to and including the 3.2 Carrera)is to be treated with respect. However, in the dry, and driven properly with a good set of tyres on, there is little on the road that will match there ability to corner quickly through a country winding road.
And yes, I've got one ('88 3.2 Carrera) so I do know what they are like. The 964RS will be the same, if not even better.
In my experience of the 964RS it is badly hobbled by it's suspension set up on the road. Lets face it - there are few billiard table surfaces in the UK and even then there is no way you can turn in to a corner with the same speed of an inherently better balaced car, not to mention a typical bumpy B road where the tyres are making a nodding aquaintance with tarmac and your bouncing around like a jack hammer on amphetamines. Yes - I do get the 911 thing, they are a challenge and have some unique characteristics,but on a typical B road you wouldnt see which way a well driven fast Seven went.
Hooch747 said:
In my experience of the 964RS it is badly hobbled by it's suspension set up on the road. Lets face it - there are few billiard table surfaces in the UK and even then there is no way you can turn in to a corner with the same speed of an inherently better balaced car, not to mention a typical bumpy B road where the tyres are making a nodding aquaintance with tarmac and your bouncing around like a jack hammer on amphetamines. Yes - I do get the 911 thing, they are a challenge and have some unique characteristics,but on a typical B road you wouldnt see which way a well driven fast Seven went.
A fast Seven - being 1/2 the weight - will see off pretty much anything on the twisties - they are great cars, though they have their disadvantages. Every car has pro's and con's.The standard suspension on a 4RS is challenging (sometimes dangerous), though not quite as bad as some make out, on uneven surfaces. I think it is more of a problem hitting bumps under braking, than being too stiff for cornering. A fast, fun, road drive is very possible - though with suspension upgrades the problem is eliminated - that is what most owners have chosen to do.
There is something about older 911's (it's odd even thinking that the 964 is 'older' - I used to think if the 73RS as 'older') that fascinates and thrills.
Yes there was something undeniably charismatic about that car. All that sensory stuff before youve even driven it, the narrow cockpit, simple dials, upright screen, chuntering diff, not to mention the engine ( with cup bypass ). Ive never driven another 911 so have nothing to compare it to. I hankered after a 993GT2 for a while. I should have tried different suspension but never got around to it. As I said in a previous post, I loved it on track, but only after I dropped the front to kill some of the understeer in the quicker stuff. I can see why you would change to wider rubber. Do you use track biased tyres on yours ?
OK I will admit the 7 is maybe a bad example, I always wondered since I sold the RS how it would have driven on proper suspension.
OK I will admit the 7 is maybe a bad example, I always wondered since I sold the RS how it would have driven on proper suspension.
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