RE: PDK-only for next Porsche 911 GT3?

[JonRB]

DMC2 said:

The probably don't want to offer both because it costs so much much to develop the car with two different boxes. For example, the traction control systems needs to be tailored individually for PDK and manual boxes.

Oh come on, traction control is just calibration of the ECU and sensors. I very much doubt that the gearbox has anything to do with TC

[wildman0609]

JonRB said:

Oh come on, traction control is just calibration of the ECU and sensors. I very much doubt that the gearbox has anything to do with TC

thats hilarious.

[boxsey]

Krikkit said:

One thing I've never understood (and perhaps someone can enlighten me here) is why the GT3 is thought of as a track day only car and folks are bothered about it being as fast as possible.

Surely, for track use (and the roads there) there's not much can best something like an Ultima or a Radical SR3-SL ?

For £100k's-worth of GT3 I'd think about buying a Range Rover, trailer and an old Formula Renault car. Even after a couple of years of rebuilds that'd be cheaper, and massively, massively faster.

e.g. Formula Renault 2011 quali pole lap: 1:19, GT3 RS Cup: 1:44

The only problem with that idea is that you wouldn't be able to take a formula Renault on a regular track day. You'd have to take up racing instead.

[Garlick]

Krikkit said:

One thing I've never understood (and perhaps someone can enlighten me here) is why the GT3 is thought of as a track day only car and folks are bothered about it being as fast as possible.

Surely, for track use (and the roads there) there's not much can best something like an Ultima or a Radical SR3-SL ?

For £100k's-worth of GT3 I'd think about buying a Range Rover, trailer and an old Formula Renault car. Even after a couple of years of rebuilds that'd be cheaper, and massively, massively faster.

e.g. Formula Renault 2011 quali pole lap: 1:19, GT3 RS Cup: 1:44

GT3 offers a lovely mix of day-to-day usability with the potential to be rather nippy around the track of your choice. It's a cracking car that your nan could drive to the shops (yes, in manual form).

GT3 RS is the more 'focussed' version.

[ging316]

i admit that the figures show that pdk is faster of the line ect but i love a car to feel like an extension f myself i want a clutch and a gearbox !!!!

[SmartVenom]

ging316 said:

i admit that the figures show that pdk is faster of the line ect but i love a car to feel like an extension f myself i want a clutch and a gearbox !!!!

I'd get myself to the doctor's if I were you!

[Himself]

I think you'll see PDK (or it's latest incarnation) as the only box across the whole range in less than ten years from now. 20 years ago I'd have laughed if you'd told me that I'd be driving an auto when I was middle aged. But the truth of it is that PDK is better than I could have imagined only a few years ago, you do have to get used to it though and anyone who's done a trip around the block in a mates car has no idea what PDK is like. Get a few thousand miles on one and then decide, I think even some of the most cynical will be pleasantly surprised.

[Pugsey]

Antj said:

Pedant switch on.

Apostrophy before 'box' Riggers? I know you are hot on grammar after your last sarcastic reply. Keep up the good work fella!

Oops - you've set yourself up there Antj! Shorten gearbox and it becomes 'box. Shorten say photograph and it become photo'.

Pedant switch off.

Back on topic - IF there's going to be just one gearbox then, sadly, it has to be PDK really doesn't it. 21st century and all that!

[RichTBiscuit]

SmartVenom said:

When I went with a friend of mine to buy a Ferrari 360 I had a long chat with the proprietor of the dealers while my friend decided which seats he preferred (Daytona's). The guy told me that there was quite a price differential between F1 boxed cars and manuals with F1 boxes being far more sort after. It seems that residuals were adversly affected by having a manual box. He also told me he considered the F1 boxed cars (with latest software!!!) to be far nicer than manuals (he was a real ferrari fan not just a dealer).

Personally I'd choose PDK (if I could shop at this end of the market) as I'd want the quickest car avaialble for the track, but I don't get why porsche don't offer both. I thought that the way 911s were built pretty much allowed porsche to knock out a million and one different combinations on the same production line (racers built on same production line as road cars).

So you're saying that the 0.5 of a sec makes all the difference to you on a track day.... really?

So you drive at 10/10ths on track days?

[RDMcG]

To be perfectly honest, my next RS will be PDK if offered. I will meet what I have, but I have driven lots of PDKs and also an M6 for the last six years, and I am well aware that I cannot shift a manual better than the PDK. Its also comforting that you can't miss a gear and over rev, as I once did

[sleep envy]

RichTBiscuit said:

SmartVenom said:

When I went with a friend of mine to buy a Ferrari 360 I had a long chat with the proprietor of the dealers while my friend decided which seats he preferred (Daytona's). The guy told me that there was quite a price differential between F1 boxed cars and manuals with F1 boxes being far more sort after. It seems that residuals were adversly affected by having a manual box. He also told me he considered the F1 boxed cars (with latest software!!!) to be far nicer than manuals (he was a real ferrari fan not just a dealer).

Personally I'd choose PDK (if I could shop at this end of the market) as I'd want the quickest car avaialble for the track, but I don't get why porsche don't offer both. I thought that the way 911s were built pretty much allowed porsche to knock out a million and one different combinations on the same production line (racers built on same production line as road cars).

So you're saying that the 0.5 of a sec makes all the difference to you on a track day.... really?

So you drive at 10/10ths on track days?

it's nomex underpants syndrome

interestingly, DCT E9X M3s are holding their price better than the manual cars

personally I hope they offer both, will make my purchase after next that bit cheaper

[TomTVR500]

If this happens the GT3 would be dead to me.

[spyker138]

I'm increasingly thinking the best measure of a car is its status after 5-15 years, when the ratio of jerks:enthusiast owners tends to skew towards the latter (be clear, not all people that buy new are jerks, but quite a few are not buying it for the engineering). I can't help wondering about all this electronic wizardry and the effect on maintenance costs for owners in ten years. Older 911's are known quantities and good marque specialists with reasonable capital outlay can repair and rebuild them. Not sure that will still hold true with PDK and Electronic steering systems?

But then I'm just a grumpy old sod.

[SmartVenom]

RichTBiscuit said:

So you're saying that the 0.5 of a sec makes all the difference to you on a track day.... really?

So you drive at 10/10ths on track days?

Yes!

[RichTBiscuit]

SmartVenom said:

RichTBiscuit said:

So you're saying that the 0.5 of a sec makes all the difference to you on a track day.... really?

So you drive at 10/10ths on track days?

Yes!

Personally I can't see why 0.5 of a sec would make a blind bit of difference to anyone that's not in a competitive race....each to their own i guess.

I'd have a manual box on a track day, PDK for a race.

[SmartVenom]

RichTBiscuit said:

SmartVenom said:

RichTBiscuit said:

So you're saying that the 0.5 of a sec makes all the difference to you on a track day.... really?

So you drive at 10/10ths on track days?

Yes!

Personally I can't see why 0.5 of a sec would make a blind bit of difference to anyone that's not in a competitive race....each to their own i guess.

I'd have much a manual box on a track day, PDK for a race.

Probably too much karting when I was a kid! I'd spend ages tweaking setups just trying to ease out that extra 0.1 of a second. Reality is your lap times were more dependent on who else was on the track than anything else.

[peralta]

Can I offer a response as a 997.2 GT3 owner - and despite all the talk about these cars on the forum, there really aren't many of us! The GT3 is a very limited production car for those who want something special. They are totally different to any other 911 variant, be it Carrera, Turbo or whatever and the appeal is that differnce. These cares are "alive" in a way that other 911s aren't - they are analogue, not digital and as such a PDK gearbox would ,to me , be a retrograde step.
I've driven one of the last 997s with a PDK box and have to say that there is absolutely no way it it would do anything other than detract from the GT3 experience. Don't get me wrong, it's very clever and very efficient but it's dull and uninvolving. There is no particular skill in driving with a PDK box in comparison with getting a series of changes down from say 6th to 2nd in a manual, matching the revs on each downshift as you heel and toe. That's a GT3, not a computer doing it all for you including the throttle blip!
Yes, Ferraris, McLarens etc have flappy paddle boxes and who knows how many other electronic gizmos, but these are different creatures designed for a different market.

On the other hand, if the new model is only going to have a PDK, it's not going to do any harm to the value of the old style GT3's ........

[Streetrod]

A number of factors are pushing companies down the PDK route. First and don’t underestimate how important this is, is economy and CO2 emissions. Legislation is making it difficult for companies like Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche to offer manual anymore.

Then you have the biggest market, the Americans, traditionally a market where few manuals have ever been sold.

Next the PR machine which always tries to forge links with motorsport where paddle type shifts have ruled for years now.

Then you have the economics of producing both which is massively expensive whichever way you look at it.

The thing is now is that the PDK is faster. The fact that we now have a number of production cars that are able to do sub 3 second 0-60 times is almost purely down to these automated transmissions.

Do I like it? Hell no. No automated transmission I have ever tried, and that includes the very good system in the 458, has ever given me the feel and control of a good manual. And it not just when you are pushing on. Around town can be a pain in the likes of a Gallardo, R8 and the 458 with automated gearboxes. They just feel clumsy and lack finesse.

Keep the GT3 with manual, being anti establishment and less of a sheep can be a good thing

[sleep envy]

peralta said:

These cares are "alive" in a way that other 911s aren't - they are analogue, not digital and as such a PDK gearbox would ,to me , be a retrograde step.

may I ask, in light of the above, why did you buy a 997.2 instead of a 997.1?

[drpep]

Adom said:

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

Unbelievable. Anyone who thinks this is a step in the right direction needs a battering.

I give up.

Couldn't agree more. Leave the faster == better nonsense to Ferrari/Lambo/Nissan. Focus on enjoyment, involvement, engaging chassis dynamics.

FFS. This has annoyed me immensely. VW influence?? fk it - I'll stick with my antiquated manual gearbox on my current GT3 and enjoy the improved residuals as markets wake up the that fact that some people actually enjoy being involved in the driving process.

Bad form Porsche, bad form indeed.