RE: You Know You Want To: BMW E30 M3
Discussion
Mermaid said:
He's pretty much flying it. 
s m said:
'Motor' mag ( the one that got merged into Autocar years back ) did an interesting article ( if you like mechanical/chassis stuff ) comparing the handling/responses of an E30 M3/E30 325i Sport/E30 325iX around a little handling course they had set up
I have a sneaking suspicion a scanned copy of that is somewhere in that humongous Photobucket account? 
Would you mind dropping a link, please?Here's a recent picture of mine. Can't ever envisage a situation when I would sell it. As Falkster says....It's about childhood memories watching the likes of Cecotto, Sytner, Hoy, Minshaw racing the living daylights out of them. And as he (Falkster) admits, despite the current values, anyone who has had theirs for any length of time has spent at least that on keeping it tiptop. I'm on my second ringbinder.
Estoril; love yours! And thanks for all the amazing pictures from Gaydon last year.
Estoril; love yours! And thanks for all the amazing pictures from Gaydon last year.
The prices are mental for these now..
My problem with M-cars is that they seem to rot in a nearly alfaesque style..
They are simply not as well-built as porches and mercs of old..
The train for M3`s have left the station IMO, I would look to 2.3-16s now.. brilliant cars and better ride quality than the bmw..
My problem with M-cars is that they seem to rot in a nearly alfaesque style..
They are simply not as well-built as porches and mercs of old..
The train for M3`s have left the station IMO, I would look to 2.3-16s now.. brilliant cars and better ride quality than the bmw..
I agree the comments about relative lack of performance are missing the point. You buy older cars for the feel and for the experience, not the outright pace.
Evo put an E30 against a cooking 123d on real roads a couple of months ago, and the two were very evenly matched. But the 123d clearly isn't going to deliver the tactile reward and the emotional attachment of the older car.
Many of the cars I loved when growing up, and the E30 M3 is one, would be matched or even trounced by a moderately sporty diesel repmobile of today's era. But that really isn't the point. You get things like steering feel, handling poise achieved through mechanical engineering instead of electronics, and in many cases grip limits that can be explored at half sensible speeds. And a sense of involvement that you simply don't get in modern cars.
I am getting old.
Evo put an E30 against a cooking 123d on real roads a couple of months ago, and the two were very evenly matched. But the 123d clearly isn't going to deliver the tactile reward and the emotional attachment of the older car.
Many of the cars I loved when growing up, and the E30 M3 is one, would be matched or even trounced by a moderately sporty diesel repmobile of today's era. But that really isn't the point. You get things like steering feel, handling poise achieved through mechanical engineering instead of electronics, and in many cases grip limits that can be explored at half sensible speeds. And a sense of involvement that you simply don't get in modern cars.
I am getting old.
falkster,
my 968 CS is black, its about to have KW V3 Dampers fitted come May, but I'm seriously considering selling it and getting the Evo6 RSX or the STI V6 Type-R Coupe, both are in mint condition and remind me of one of the biggest regrets I made, selling the 1973 BMW 3.0 CSL I had back in 98, I see it now and then with the guy I sold it to who restored it and uses it as a daily driver.
my 968 CS is black, its about to have KW V3 Dampers fitted come May, but I'm seriously considering selling it and getting the Evo6 RSX or the STI V6 Type-R Coupe, both are in mint condition and remind me of one of the biggest regrets I made, selling the 1973 BMW 3.0 CSL I had back in 98, I see it now and then with the guy I sold it to who restored it and uses it as a daily driver.
It's 25 years old, why expect it to be as good as anything today ? If you do, then we'd have some pretty boring cars in the past 25 years. Progress keeps marching on.
Any E30 M3 will feel pretty slow in straight line, but it's the fact that while car makers can add ever more power and make cars feel slow in power terms, few have captured the driving feel which you get in an M3. That's what you are paying a large chunk for.
Any E30 M3 will feel pretty slow in straight line, but it's the fact that while car makers can add ever more power and make cars feel slow in power terms, few have captured the driving feel which you get in an M3. That's what you are paying a large chunk for.
flatline84 said:
The prices are mental for these now..
My problem with M-cars is that they seem to rot in a nearly alfaesque style..
They are simply not as well-built as porches and mercs of old..
The train for M3`s have left the station IMO, I would look to 2.3-16s now.. brilliant cars and better ride quality than the bmw..
Was thinking the same last year, I asked this and got almost no response !My problem with M-cars is that they seem to rot in a nearly alfaesque style..
They are simply not as well-built as porches and mercs of old..
The train for M3`s have left the station IMO, I would look to 2.3-16s now.. brilliant cars and better ride quality than the bmw..
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
While I agree they are cracking cars they are not worth £50K, well at least not to me as I am not into buying cars as ornaments. At £10k they were a good buy but as someone said earlier, the boat has sailed on the M3 and most will now be relegated to spending life as musuem pieces which is a damn shame.
A similiar situation is occuring with NSX's, the other modern classic which has shot up in price recently. At £20k they were a storming buy, at £40k+ now, nostalgia only goes so far and their are better alternatives for that price.
I blame the motoring press, for every glowing review like this, the legendary but affordable cars are rapidly being elevated out of proper enthusiasts hands into those of collectors\investors. It's a crying shame that any car becomes more sought after for it's commodity value then how it drives.
A similiar situation is occuring with NSX's, the other modern classic which has shot up in price recently. At £20k they were a storming buy, at £40k+ now, nostalgia only goes so far and their are better alternatives for that price.
I blame the motoring press, for every glowing review like this, the legendary but affordable cars are rapidly being elevated out of proper enthusiasts hands into those of collectors\investors. It's a crying shame that any car becomes more sought after for it's commodity value then how it drives.
Gilt dealer at KB when I worked there in the '80s owned an Evo 2 in black - John Wilson - also had an F40....I loved both of them.
Got close to buying an E30 M3 4 or 5 years ago but prices were rising for good ones and the cheaper ones were rotten. Bought a 1 owner Mercedes 2.3-16 instead. Keep this between us, but the 2.3-16 will be following the M3 up in price soon....
Got close to buying an E30 M3 4 or 5 years ago but prices were rising for good ones and the cheaper ones were rotten. Bought a 1 owner Mercedes 2.3-16 instead. Keep this between us, but the 2.3-16 will be following the M3 up in price soon....
J4CKO said:
Was thinking the same last year, I asked this and got almost no response !
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
Expanding on this a bit further, I frequent both bmw and mercedes forums, and whereas the reader cars on BMW forums seem to constantly require attention be it rust or otherwise, on the mercedes forums you have cars being driven 500.00 miles and treated like a gypsy van, these cars just laugh it off and go on and on and on.http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
I think BMW is the pinnacle of engineering when it comes to road feel and dynamics, but older BMW`s really do need deep wallets if you want to adress things when they occur. Im not going to speculate as to why that is, its merely an observation, im sure people have experiences to the contrary so donning my tin hat here.
Here's mine -
And with it's baby brother, but my personal favourite over the M3 -
I always wanted the E30 M3, I bought my 325 back in 1994 and always wanted to upgrade but never got round to it.
Several years later after restoring the 325 and realising I had nothing to do with myself, I bought one before I got out priced.
I truly believe I should of left the M3 as my hero instead of buying one.........but I was, and still am, happy with my 325 so that might have something to do with it.
I await the abuse
And with it's baby brother, but my personal favourite over the M3 -
I always wanted the E30 M3, I bought my 325 back in 1994 and always wanted to upgrade but never got round to it.
Several years later after restoring the 325 and realising I had nothing to do with myself, I bought one before I got out priced.
I truly believe I should of left the M3 as my hero instead of buying one.........but I was, and still am, happy with my 325 so that might have something to do with it.
I await the abuse
rubystone said:
Bought a 1 owner Mercedes 2.3-16 instead. Keep this between us, but the 2.3-16 will be following the M3 up in price soon....
It deserves to, but Its a 4-door sedan and doesnt look as good to the majority - so Im a bit on the fence for the time being - and this is coming from a BIG fan of 2.3-16s - Im getting one. That being said, on the continent they are already on the rise. You cant find a decent one for below 15.000 euros.Here in norway you can get one for like 5 grand, but it will be an absolute rotter and a viper nest of bills waiting to happen.
MarJay said:
I expect that if I ever get an opportunity to drive an E30 M3, I will be thorougly underwhelmed.
If you drive one like a nancy then yeah you're probably right. I drove mine for the first time and I said to my wife (at the time) 'I've wanted one of these for such a long time but this is rubbish'. I then drove it properly once I got used to lhd and it was fantastic and was pretty quick even though the previous owner had taken off 20bhp by adding a scorpion system. The other thing people have got to remember is, these cars are a road going version of the 300+bhp race car so, in road going guise, will never do what you see them do during the old touring car days. As I mentioned before you would need to make a few alterations to the car to make it even a small percent nearer the 'real thing'.
Technology is much better these days and you could probably get 330bhp easily out of an S14 with the right engine builder, parts, ecu and wizard at mapping but if BMW had sold a proper road going race car no one could have driven them and they'd need rebuilds every 5 minutes.
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