RE: Driven: Aston Martin Vanquish
Discussion
356Speedster said:
Comments made about 8-speed 'boxes are a bit surprising. Why does a sports car with so much power & torque need an 8-speeder? It's probably got the grunt to run a 4-speeder without breaking a sweat! I like the fact that Aston haven't followed the trend of cramming loads of ratios in the 'box and have done what's right for the car.
Right for the car or right for the accountants??A strange argument your making here that it's "good" there flagship car is using relatively old gearbox tech, compared to cars costing half as much
Were is this parts economy money on a 190k motor going?? loan restructures and dividends by the looks of it
fbrs said:
Trevor M said:
it's clear that you have no idea how close to impossible it is to really exploit and enjoy an automobile with even around 500 hp on a public roadway is.
rubbish. you even get used to it pretty quicklyWhere's this power race heading?
scenario8 said:
I'm intrigued by these posts. <Handing in my PH card as I type> Not having owned a vehicle sporting over 200bhp, and those naturally aspirated and delivered in a relatively peaky manner, I can imagine a torque laden 300bhp would be desirable and exploitable periodically (if not necessarily within the confines of the law). 400bhp I imagine would be really very swift indeed and probably only rarely deployed with respect to the safety of my licence. 500bhp? Surely only for very brief moments. 700bhp? I doubt on the public highway I could ever safely deploy that many horses in a vehicle weighing less than a train.
Where's this power race heading?
I can only assume its because the roads are getting busier, and the people who want to do 2/3rds of the limit are becoming more numerous, thus, you need the extra power to get to 60 as quickly as possible, and thus complete overtakes in a safe manor. I suspect Brake are behind it. Where's this power race heading?
Re the car - I want one, drove a V8 vantage for a morning, wanted one since.. This looks like an even more incredible machine
peter450 said:
Right for the car or right for the accountants??
A strange argument your making here that it's "good" there flagship car is using relatively old gearbox tech, compared to cars costing half as much
Were is this parts economy money on a 190k motor going?? loan restructures and dividends by the looks of it
My point about the box was two-fold... Firstly, that engine absolutely does not need an 8-speeder. With all it's torque it'll rip through those short ratios in no time and be hunting around them when driving normally. IMO, it's too many ratios for a big torquey engine.A strange argument your making here that it's "good" there flagship car is using relatively old gearbox tech, compared to cars costing half as much
Were is this parts economy money on a 190k motor going?? loan restructures and dividends by the looks of it
Secondly, technology is moving on for no reason other than manufacturers are doing it because they can. This then gives them something to wave at the public, who actually have no idea if they want it or not, but they buy it because it sounds good. AM sticking to a 6-speeder are doing the right thing for the car definitely (OK, the bean counters might be happy about that too) and I'd certainly not call the technology outdated until I'd heard more first-hand feedback on it's performance at shifting cogs. If it works well, then it just shows you don't always need the latest shiny tech.
In fact, I'd welcome it over the sort of rapid fire, lurchy, angry boxes Ferrari fit to their cars. I've yet to experience one that worked at anything less than 10/10ths, without snapping your neck t every change.
Truth be told, I miss the manual in modern performance cars, but that's a different debate!
richardaucock said:
Dagnut said:
Forget about the power why is it so heavy? why make a carbon car and not lose any weight? baffled.
Interesting to speak with Reichman about carbon fibre: he says the big gain was not in saving weight but in allowing them to design curves and angles that would be impossible in aluminium. Look to the depth of the rear side panel, he said. Such depth of draw would simply be impossible with metal.If it's through using carbon that Aston's been able to create such a striking car, I can forgive any lack of weight loss!
Oh, and it's also all still VH underneath...
Also the amount of bracing, panels under the bodywork ties bits of chassis together the drive train and suspension is where weight amounts too. With VH chassis platform, as long they keep evolving the same platform the weight its never going to drastically reduce and frankly it doesnt need too as whole package works the weight works for its balance and character.
Worse looking that the DBS too slow and too expensive I am out
Also just because its an aston martin doesn't really give it an excuse to be worse than its rivals its only a badge at the end of the day and I would rather buy the better car not the best brand myself.
Oh and I think the fact a new adventador is only 10k or so more makes this seems rather stupid at this money
Also just because its an aston martin doesn't really give it an excuse to be worse than its rivals its only a badge at the end of the day and I would rather buy the better car not the best brand myself.
Oh and I think the fact a new adventador is only 10k or so more makes this seems rather stupid at this money
richardaucock said:
Oh, and it's also all still VH underneath...
It's 4th gen VH, so it's the latest evolution of the technology. I believe VH is still a very advanced manufacturing process, but I'm no engineer! From what I've read it's still a very advanced process that's really only bettered by the likes of full carbon tubs, which AM have reserved for the One-77. Can you elaborate on what's wrong with VH and why AM's evolution of the technology is somehow behind the times?richardaucock said:
Dagnut said:
Forget about the power why is it so heavy? why make a carbon car and not lose any weight? baffled.
Interesting to speak with Reichman about carbon fibre: he says the big gain was not in saving weight but in allowing them to design curves and angles that would be impossible in aluminium. Look to the depth of the rear side panel, he said. Such depth of draw would simply be impossible with metal.If it's through using carbon that Aston's been able to create such a striking car, I can forgive any lack of weight loss!
Oh, and it's also all still VH underneath...
The F12 is probably a fairer comparison comes in at 1525kg with 730hp.
Compare previous Vanquish V 575 and now this V the F12....their in different decades....Aston need to the million pound one-77 to get close to the F12.
Granted it's not all about headline figures and the Aston will still have its fans but it won't even come close to the F12
Sexual Chocolate said:
So the old vanquishes weak spot was its gearbox and the new vanquishes weak spot is the gearbox. Is this progress?
Is it though? Logically, the more gears you add the less the driving experience in some regards for a sports car. You want to work it up through the gears but you don't want to be changing gear all the time or when cruising having it pop in and out. There is an argument to be had that Aston are correct and others are wrong and just adding tech because they have it from their economy ranges?
George H said:
Obiwonkeyblokey said:
do current Astons and indeed the Vanquish still have that message that pops up on ignition with Power, Beauty Soul or whatever claptrap it was. I cant fathom why but I was going to buy a DB9 a few years back and this put me off so much ( the word w
ky marketing dept sprang to mind) that I bought a 575 instead.
I cannot stand the idea of the marketing guys running the show.
What a load of utter bky marketing dept sprang to mind) that I bought a 575 instead.I cannot stand the idea of the marketing guys running the show.
ks. You didn't buy a car because it has a message when you start it? A message that you don't even see all of it unless you just put the ECU in and don't start the engine 
And no it doesn't say it on the newer cars.
If that message doesn't sit well with you then the reality is that you will be sitting there with a permanent reminder that this product is not for you.
I found the message to be a bit pathetic and almost up there with TVR's 'Orgasmic Living'. Whether we admit it or not and frankly we should embrace it, at a certain level of car type we are buying into a history or a brand or a belief/ethos and if this jars with us then one little thing is actually more than sufficient to prevent you from financially committing to a purchase/lifestyle choice.
As an extreme example of the concept, imagine the screen said 'Jimmy Savill'?
356Speedster said:
Comments made about 8-speed 'boxes are a bit surprising. Why does a sports car with so much power & torque need an 8-speeder? It's probably got the grunt to run a 4-speeder without breaking a sweat! I like the fact that Aston haven't followed the trend of cramming loads of ratios in the 'box and have done what's right for the car - a constantly shuffling 'box that the big V2 whips thru' in no time wouldn't be right IMO. Lambo are hardly technology trail blazers and I'd argue that modern Porsches & Ferraris are stuffed with pointless technology most folks neither want, understand or need. I'd say Aston are keeping it real 
i'm sorry that's a stupid comment.the 8 speed box will give better economy AND performance, and is so, so smooth in auto mode you don't notice gear changes, aside from a change in engine rpm on the tacho. it doesn't matter how much torque/power a car has, so long as gear changes are quick, an 8 speed box with decent ratios will always give better performance and economy than a 6 speeder (or 4 speed, like you suggested....rather absurdly). so why not use it?!
you clearly haven't been in a car with the 8 speed box.
DonkeyApple said:
Sexual Chocolate said:
So the old vanquishes weak spot was its gearbox and the new vanquishes weak spot is the gearbox. Is this progress?
Is it though? Logically, the more gears you add the less the driving experience in some regards for a sports car. You want to work it up through the gears but you don't want to be changing gear all the time or when cruising having it pop in and out. There is an argument to be had that Aston are correct and others are wrong and just adding tech because they have it from their economy ranges?
My issue with the old one was that you always got a faint whiff of clutch in traffic. Hopefully yhis has been addressed in the new one.
E38Ross said:
i'm sorry that's a stupid comment.
the 8 speed box will give better economy AND performance, and is so, so smooth in auto mode you don't notice gear changes, aside from a change in engine rpm on the tacho. it doesn't matter how much torque/power a car has, so long as gear changes are quick, an 8 speed box with decent ratios will always give better performance and economy than a 6 speeder (or 4 speed, like you suggested....rather absurdly). so why not use it?!
you clearly haven't been in a car with the 8 speed box.
You clearly didn't read what I said properly, I never suggested it should have a 4-sp 'box, just that because of the engine's grunt it could pull one.the 8 speed box will give better economy AND performance, and is so, so smooth in auto mode you don't notice gear changes, aside from a change in engine rpm on the tacho. it doesn't matter how much torque/power a car has, so long as gear changes are quick, an 8 speed box with decent ratios will always give better performance and economy than a 6 speeder (or 4 speed, like you suggested....rather absurdly). so why not use it?!
you clearly haven't been in a car with the 8 speed box.
Regardless.... my point was about the driving experience of the car. With an 8-sp 'box (no matter how good it is and that, I never doubted), you are giving the car a different character by having it banging up & down gears all the while. This is something that suits higher revving lower torque engines, not a big V12. Of course by shortening the ratios you will emphasise the acceleration and with the right programming improve economy, but this isn't top of the AM priority list for this car.
Such tech has it's place and fits with the V8V, but for a car like this, a longer spread of ratios in a slick shifting 6-sp is more in keeping with the character of the car. You'd need to drive a car with massive torque (here I'm talking 500lb/ft plus) to better understand my point - they work better pulling thru' a gear, not being kept at the top of their rev range all the time.
356Speedster said:
You'd need to drive a car with massive torque (here I'm talking 500lb/ft plus) to better understand my point - they work better pulling thru' a gear, not being kept at the top of their rev range all the time.
well the box seems to work well in the bentley mulsanne, continental GT or bmw 760li, for example.i've been in a big V12 Aston before, and an 8 speed box won't make the experience any less IMO.
E38Ross said:
well the box seems to work well in the bentley mulsanne, continental GT or bmw 760li, for example.
i've been in a big V12 Aston before, and an 8 speed box won't make the experience any less IMO.
Each to their own. I guess AM feel the same way I do (and others on here), that 8 isn't necessary for their car, the same way other manufacturers do. It's also worth bearing in mind that Audi & BMW will always need to share as much technology across their sub-brands to squeeze every penny of profit from their investments, so there will be a lot of bean counter pressure on re-use there too.i've been in a big V12 Aston before, and an 8 speed box won't make the experience any less IMO.
356Speedster said:
E38Ross said:
well the box seems to work well in the bentley mulsanne, continental GT or bmw 760li, for example.
i've been in a big V12 Aston before, and an 8 speed box won't make the experience any less IMO.
Each to their own. I guess AM feel the same way I do (and others on here), that 8 isn't necessary for their car, the same way other manufacturers do. It's also worth bearing in mind that Audi & BMW will always need to share as much technology across their sub-brands to squeeze every penny of profit from their investments, so there will be a lot of bean counter pressure on re-use there too.i've been in a big V12 Aston before, and an 8 speed box won't make the experience any less IMO.
a shame on a £200k (after options) car.
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