RE: (Not) driven: Jaguar F-Type

[TaylotS2K]

The pricing seems a bit silly IMO. I thought this was going to be car that fits in the range below the XK. However, seems to be on a par price wise depending on spec.

[andybu]

Well, none of us have read a pukka road-test on it yet, so to be fair to Jaguar I'm happy to wait until a road tester who I've read for a while [so I already know how to calibrate my readout on their judgement] does a proper reporting job on the F type.

I have to agree with Ph'ers who say their pricing seems ambitious. My XK 5.0 coupe is priced in the UK at about GBP 65K, new. I can report that if you wait for 18 months then you can get a lightly used one now for a bit over half that figure.

If 18 - month old F type coupe prices behave the same as the XK has then I'd look at one, but not otherwise. Yes, I know a 991 Porsche 911 is up at GBP 90K list at UK prices, but they have 50 years of market image and accumulated brand loyalty behind them. Jaguar say the F is positioned between the Boxter/Cayman and the 911, but my attempt at their configurator has everything coming up priced at the 911 end. Hmm........

I do wish Jaguar well with this car and I expect that it will do well in export markets, especially the US. The market, however, will be the final judge and after a year or so we'll see if their UK market ambitions are realized.

[ian_uk]

The design really leaves me cold. But then I feel the same about all recent Jags.

[edinph]

I'm moist! That noise! I want!

[T1berious]

Liking the design and the sound but the price? I know they have to recoup the dev costs but sheesh! It looks like its going up against the SL price wise (SL might even be cheaper?) But if I had 90K burning a hole in my pants would I go here?

(no, I'd look at a holiday home somewhere) Surely even the minted folk would be thinking "Hold on that 90k will be 40k in 3 years!" I'm guessing it will 60% first 3 years?

Loving it but I can't help but think unless it kicks established Roadsters into the weeds (and looking at the weight it won't) it's going to be having a hard life.

Be interested to see what the projected residuals are...

[zebedee]

T1berious said:

Liking the design and the sound but the price? I know they have to recoup the dev costs but sheesh! It looks like its going up against the SL price wise (SL might even be cheaper?) But if I had 90K burning a hole in my pants would I go here?

(no, I'd look at a holiday home somewhere) Surely even the minted folk would be thinking "Hold on that 90k will be 40k in 3 years!" I'm guessing it will 60% first 3 years?

Loving it but I can't help but think unless it kicks established Roadsters into the weeds (and looking at the weight it won't) it's going to be having a hard life.

Be interested to see what the projected residuals are...

are you saying it will depreciate more than everything else does or the same? If the same, then it isn't a factor in purchasing this as opposed to anything else is it?

[Domf]

PunterCam said:

No interest for me, it's just a fat american car. Nothing British about it. The V6 sounds artificial, and the fact it's propelling something touching 1700kgs makes it completely ridiculous.

Jaguar have long pandered to the American market because going back to the days of William Lyons they knew where their main market was. Biggest E type market America. On launch the E Type was only available abroad it didn't come to the UK market until 4 months later! An improvement the UK will get the F Type at the same time as abroad. I'm sure Ian Callum and the engineers would like to build something lighter but European and American safety crash rules, dictate extra safety not deemed a requirement in the past, airbags, side impact bars etc all add weight and nost cars today come with lots of creature comforts(weight) aircon,satnav, heated seats, electric seats and windows, require motors, the list goes on and so does the weight!

[Digga]

T1berious said:

Be interested to see what the projected residuals are...

Yes, you'd have to have big (brass?) balls to shell that sort of money out.

Lovely car - both V6 and V8 sound superb and the car certainly looks as though it drives nicely, but the pricing... well where does it leave the XK8 for a start?

[M@1975]

Sounds good, not 100% on the looks I still have this nagging MX5 with a bodykit thing stuck in my head which is, I confess, utterly unfair but there is something in the lines that makes me think that. Pricing is outlandish and I think it will hurt them when it goes on sale.

[FisiP1]

The more I think about the pricing the less sense it makes honestly.

If this was lighter, priced at 40k with that V6, and the options list wasn't quite so venomous then fair enough.

Not convinced it'll do more than give them a more modern mid-range sports 'halo' model to market their saloons with.

V6 in what I would consider a reasonable spec, 73 grand.. having a laugh.

Edited by FisiP1 on Monday 4th February 14:49

[zebedee]

FisiP1 said:

If this was lighter, priced at 40k

Tedious. It isn't and it is not. And you can't get cars like this for £40k, what do you want them to produce a car to go up against? What does an R8 cabrio, 911 Cabrio or Aston V8 weigh in at and cost?

[Wills2]

andyps said:

But look at engine size and power, a big part of the make up of cars like this, and I am not sure how the F-Type, with a base spec of a 3.0 supercharged V6 with 340hp and a range topping 5.0 supercharged V8 with 495hp compares to a Boxster with a 2.7 boxer6 with 265hp rather than a 911 with a 3.4 boxer6 and 350hp. Certainly makes the F-Type look like more of a 911 rival to me.

The performance is what matters and the 3.0V6 S is no faster than the far cheaper Boxster S, had Porsche not made the new boxster as lovely as they have then I would say the Jag would sell on looks alone compared to the old 987 version.

I really wonder if the new generation boxster/Cayman have blown a big hole in Jaguars marketing and product positioning strategy for the F-type. As they really are a world away from the old ones.

[NGK210]

Lovely, but the prices - oy vey, how much?? And, as mentioned, it deserves a little more than a tarted-up ZF slush-box

But a coupé in dark metallic blue with an all-black cabin does seem oh so very tempting, even if it will probably be more pricey than an XK R

[FisiP1]

zebedee said:

FisiP1 said:

If this was lighter, priced at 40k

Tedious. It isn't and it is not. And you can't get cars like this for £40k, what do you want them to produce a car to go up against? What does an R8 cabrio, 911 Cabrio or Aston V8 weigh in at and cost?

Boxster S can be had for just over 40 right now, is the same speed(because of the weight differential), and the standard equipment levels and options list pricing is broadly similar.

Other than the 911 all the rest of those cars are V8s; the F type V8 starts at 80k, only 10k less than the R8 coupe which has more standard kit and as we already know, is sensational. Whether they are going to go with the eventual coupe F-type being more or less expensive than the cabrio remains to be seen I suppose.

Plenty of people slate Porsche for their 911 pricing too, I even bought a 991 and I'm the first to admit the Boxster/Cayman represents far better value.

Edited by FisiP1 on Monday 4th February 15:04

[zebedee]

I don't agree that this is like a boxster though. If it is sensational too I can see it taking sales off the 911 and R8. Admit the XK sits oddly at the moment, but if this car gets the plaudits to make people believe in Jags as sports cars again, maybe the next XK will be pitched at the DB9 segment?

[SuperHangOn]

Jimbo. said:

So what you're saying is Jaguar should be churning out the same old rustic cottages on wheels like they were before?

They shouldn't. They couldn't. Whilst they were doing so with the S-Type, XJ and X-Type, they were at best on life-support, else dying. There's only so long wood, leather, and memories so old even they are in black-and-white can sustain you for. Jaguar needed new, Jaguar needed fresh, Jaguar needed modern. They did so with the XF and XJ, and it seems to be working. The F-Type is the next step.

And remember, Jaguar (or SS if we go back far enough) used to pride themselves on automotive engineering/design daring-do and innovation: aerodynamics, materials, suspension, styling. Progress

Yes, the old models were a bit cringeworthy. But the replacements were either bland (XF) or bizarre (XJ). I didn't want a Jag before, and I still don't now.

This is better, but I'm still failing to see what the hype is about at this price tbh.

[NGK210]

Wills2 said:

... I really wonder if the new generation Boxster/Cayman have blown a big hole in Jaguar's marketing and product positioning strategy for the F-type...

Nail on the head, sir

Who da thunk it that the words "Porsche" and "better value" could be used in the same sentence - the World's gone mad

Unless... Jag is planning a c. £40k N/A V6 coupé/drophead based on its forthcoming 3-series rival's platform...

Edited by NGK210 on Monday 4th February 15:27

[FisiP1]

zebedee said:

I don't agree that this is like a boxster though. If it is sensational too I can see it taking sales off the 911 and R8. Admit the XK sits oddly at the moment, but if this car gets the plaudits to make people believe in Jags as sports cars again, maybe the next XK will be pitched at the DB9 segment?

I'm just curious though, what tangible factor is it that makes this sit 'above' the Boxster/Cayman other than the Price Jaguar have decided to sell it at?

Perhaps the novelty of the Jaguar brand being 'back' as a sports car manufacturer will appeal to some, so I can see that bit. But otherwise I'm having a hard time seeing it myself, anyone who is considering a 991 911 will have to forgo the 2+2 seats and far more practical layout to go for the F-type.

I suppose the reviews and such will answer a lot of questions as to how it stacks up in the marketplace, but unless it is otherworldly good I honestly just cannot see it justifying its price tag, it isn't just idle moaning.

[Wills2]

zebedee said:

I don't agree that this is like a boxster though.

Same performance as the Boxster/cayman S at a price 15k higher, the V8 is the same performance as the C2S.

I think they thought people could trade up to the F-type based upon its style compared to the old 987 and then steal some sales from the C2S as you get the "Full fat F-type" for less than the entry 911 S model.

Working on the theory that the gap between the boxster/cayman and 911 was big enough to insert the F-type into?

I just think the value offered by the 981 drives a horse and coach through that strategy.

[monamimate]

Bedazzled said:

DaveEssex said:

Not the most informative comment mate. Try again!!!

What, you honestly prefer this to the concept car...? It's revolting!

Agree. There are far too many lines and folds and gaping inlets. They had an opportunity to create a modern interpretation of Jaguar's restraint and purity of line, and instead produced something that looks like an extra for the next Fast and Furious... pity