RE: Alfa Romeo 4C - first official pictures
Discussion
stephen300o said:
Alfa Romeo has a fine heritage that most petrolheads know about, some evidently do not.
Granted - but Alfa, Lancia, Fiat have been blighted with a poor reputation for quality/reliability/rust and so it is a leap of faith to pay a premium price for any one of those. For me, even buying a new Maserati is a sure fire way of losing a bundle of money.In the 70's it did not seem to matter, and driveability/looks/character trumped, for a while.
Mermaid said:
stephen300o said:
Alfa Romeo has a fine heritage that most petrolheads know about, some evidently do not.
Granted - but Alfa, Lancia, Fiat have been blighted with a poor reputation for quality/reliability/rust and so it is a leap of faith to pay a premium price for any one of those. For me, even buying a new Maserati is a sure fire way of losing a bundle of money.In the 70's it did not seem to matter, and driveability/looks/character trumped, for a while.
... and Lotus still failed when they tried to go head-to-head with the Cayman, despite the fact that almost everyone said the Evora was a substantially better drivers' car.
Add the Exige V6 to the picture, and the Alfa seems to have very little going for it except its looks, which are decidedly dubious to my eye.
It uses a lot of carbon fibre, but is still likely to be a little heavier than a contemporary supercharged Elise, with a similar power to weight ratio. The question appears to be - what is the money spent on carbon fibre buying you? We will have to wait and see, but I have a suspicion that what you will get will be an Elise type driving experience with more mainstream comfort and refinement. I think the buyers for this may well be those who like the way the Lotus drives but can't quite live with one.
In business terms, there is a difference between this and the Lotus Exige.
The Exige has to stand up on its own. It has to sell to justify the outlay of building it.
It would be nice for Fiat if the 4C sold well and made money. It would probably be acceptable if it broke even but did raise the brand profile, encourage people to buy the lesser cars and so on, serving as a halo car.
The 8C is a perfect example of the latter.
The Exige has to stand up on its own. It has to sell to justify the outlay of building it.
It would be nice for Fiat if the 4C sold well and made money. It would probably be acceptable if it broke even but did raise the brand profile, encourage people to buy the lesser cars and so on, serving as a halo car.
The 8C is a perfect example of the latter.
Rawwr said:
A3tdi said:
It was in my opinion you pillock i dont speak on behalf of the general public who do/don't buy those cars.
A3tdi said:
im just saying how this car at this price point will be perceived by the money buying public. It doesn't appear to be very good value for money.
It was my opinion of the money buying public.
Now congratulate yourself.
Mermaid said:
stephen300o said:
Alfa Romeo has a fine heritage that most petrolheads know about, some evidently do not.
Granted - but Alfa, Lancia, Fiat have been blighted with a poor reputation for quality/reliability/rust and so it is a leap of faith to pay a premium price for any one of those. For me, even buying a new Maserati is a sure fire way of losing a bundle of money.In the 70's it did not seem to matter, and driveability/looks/character trumped, for a while.
I think heritage in racing is a trump card you can use no matter what happens in between.
kambites said:
I think in many ways Alfa and Lotus share a problem when trying to compete with Porsche. Both are long-established brands which have been successful in motor-sports in the past but both have a reputation for poor design/build/assembly quality. Lotus at least have a current reputation for building cars that drive well; Alfa don't even have that.
... and Lotus still failed when they tried to go head-to-head with the Cayman, despite the fact that almost everyone said the Evora was a substantially better drivers' car.
Add the Exige V6 to the picture, and the Alfa seems to have very little going for it except its looks, which are decidedly dubious to my eye.
The real issue is that when you want to take on the incumbant and take market share, as the under dog you have to be prettier, faster and cheaper. Once you have done that then you gain your reputation which helps protect you from needing to meet all three of those criteria going forward.... and Lotus still failed when they tried to go head-to-head with the Cayman, despite the fact that almost everyone said the Evora was a substantially better drivers' car.
Add the Exige V6 to the picture, and the Alfa seems to have very little going for it except its looks, which are decidedly dubious to my eye.
Companies always fail to take on Porsche because they either arrive slower, uglier or more expensive.
GroundEffect said:
A3tdi said:
kambites said:
You mean more power, or a higher power to weight ratio?
A mixture of both i guess. Minimum of 350bhp at this price point for me.The only thing i don't like is a lack of cylinders but in the current climate it does look pretty and shows good innovation compared to 99% of the new cars currently available.
Regardless of price i think Alfa should be applauded for this approach and at least it offers what looks like a reasonable alternative to the Cayman/Boxter.
DonkeyApple said:
The real issue is that when you want to take on the incumbant and take market share, as the under dog you have to be prettier, faster and cheaper. Once you have done that then you gain your reputation which helps protect you from needing to meet all three of those criteria going forward.
Companies always fail to take on Porsche because they either arrive slower, uglier or more expensive.
Absolutely agree - I really like the look of the 4c but I'm struggling with who it's competing against. If its an Elise it's too expensive and if its a Cayman it'll have to be easier to live with than I'm expecting - maybe they can pull it off though.Companies always fail to take on Porsche because they either arrive slower, uglier or more expensive.
The issue about cylinders is an interesting one - it certainly has the power per tonne but even Lotus realised there's a cash point where the 'punter' expects more than 4 cylinders - they said it themselves when they launched the Evora.
Why such low production numbers though?
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