RE: Volkswagen Golf R 400
Discussion
EricE said:
Looks like you are right, it isn’t Haldex. I couldn’t find a source about the permanent 40:60 split, but I recall reading it is 100% RWD above speeds of 140 km/h or so. Either way it is far superior to the Golf R’s AWD implementation.
No, it isn't. In fact it suffers from the same seesaw power shuffling in slow corners that the old Gen I/II Haldex systems did. Gens 4 and 5 are excellent for sports-oriented road cars and shuffle power much faster than conventional mechanical systems.WCZ said:
no suspension changes/dynamic changes ?
hmm
Strikes me as a cheap way of getting back at the A45 AMG in a game of oneupmanship - take one existing Golf R, turn up the boost, fit stronger engine internals if necessary, send to market. Whether the chassis can take the power is another matter, but it seems that Porsche is the only part of VAG that actually takes driving dynamics at all seriously (and even then I wonder at their EPAS and 4WS and PDK-only bhmm
ks with the new GT3).RoverP6B said:
Strikes me as a cheap way of getting back at the A45 AMG in a game of oneupmanship - take one existing Golf R, turn up the boost, fit stronger engine internals if necessary, send to market. Whether the chassis can take the power is another matter, but it seems that Porsche is the only part of VAG that actually takes driving dynamics at all seriously (and even then I wonder at their EPAS and 4WS and PDK-only bks with the new GT3).
agreed.ks with the new GT3).I'm waiting for the full production spec before I make my mind up on purchasing though, but I think bigger brakes are a requirement etc
RoverP6B said:
I could drop in an N55 and 6-speed from a 335i and remap it and I'd have something that would give this Golf a fright in a straight line and handle far better
What a strange thing to say. So everyone considering buying a 400bhp 4WD Hatchback should buy a second hand boggo BMW estate and do an engine transplant instead?Also, is a forced induction straight six that different in throttle repsonse/lag etc. to a modern turbo 4 pot? How does the rev limit compare?
RoverP6B said:
Simply doubling the power output of a basic FWD Golf GTI and putting Haldex on it simply isn't good enough. It's not good full stop. It's a completely and utterly half-arsed way of doing it.
Right, and that's exactly why the Golf R is winning so many of the group tests and being showered with praise, isn't it?Has it ever occurred to you that there's a difference between you not personally liking something for whatever reason, and it being objectively decent?
Matt UK said:
Foxy81 said:
Matt UK said:
soxboy said:
Sorry to be pedantic but those arches in the images aren't box arches.
Box arches are as featured on E30 M3, Quattro, Integrale and Nova 3dr.
Agreed. Swollen, not boxed. Box arches are as featured on E30 M3, Quattro, Integrale and Nova 3dr.
MiseryStreak said:
What a strange thing to say. So everyone considering buying a 400bhp 4WD Hatchback should buy a second hand boggo BMW estate and do an engine transplant instead?
Also, is a forced induction straight six that different in throttle repsonse/lag etc. to a modern turbo 4 pot? How does the rev limit compare?
I didn't say they SHOULD, I said I COULD and the result would be superior to the Golf R400 because of the inherently superior chassis and engine. And yes, the inherently balanced straight six, with no balancer shafts trying vainly to cancel out the vibration of a 4-cylinder engine, is a far sweeter thing than the straight four. The BMW twin-turbo setup also means less lag than the single-turbo setup on the Golf.Also, is a forced induction straight six that different in throttle repsonse/lag etc. to a modern turbo 4 pot? How does the rev limit compare?
ManOpener said:
Right, and that's exactly why the Golf R is winning so many of the group tests and being showered with praise, isn't it?
Has it ever occurred to you that there's a difference between you not personally liking something for whatever reason, and it being objectively decent?
And why is it winning? Because the journos are given VW's hospitality etc and are wowed by the straight-line go the thing has. It doesn't matter how many group tests it wins, a FWD-based Haldex system will NEVER be an acceptable solution for a proper high-performance car.Has it ever occurred to you that there's a difference between you not personally liking something for whatever reason, and it being objectively decent?
Catatafish said:
Totally agree. Be thankful these cars are still being crafted from otherwise white goods type cars.
Looks like VAG saw the AMG A and thought they must get into that niche...
Definitely. I love the German willy waving mentality they have for their cars, as it spells huge leaps and bounds in car technology. If they produce this, it'll probably still do 35mpg+ and only require normal service intervals too. You only have to look at the money they threw at the Veyron to realise they're not always worried about making a return on a car, so lets hope they make it.Looks like VAG saw the AMG A and thought they must get into that niche...
And yet what did the Veyron really achieve? That, by throwing away billions of Euros and developing your existing VR engine architecture into an eight-litre, sixteen-cylinder, quad-turbo monster with no fewer than ten radiators and a total disregard for MPG and emissions, you can go 250mph? What Christian von Koenigsegg has done from a technological POV (particularly with regard to the BHP-to-CO2 ratio) is far more interesting and exciting. Ditto McLaren and their hydraulic suspension, hybrid system and their development of brake steer to effectively give you the desirable characteristics of an LSD without the undesirable ones...
here it is a bit moving in a video and presentation of that car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EphfVrMw5pY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EphfVrMw5pY
ManOpener said:
Has it ever occurred to you that there's a difference between you not personally liking something for whatever reason, and it being objectively decent?
No he hasn't and never will, you see his 520i is better than anything new and has a chassis to die for and stands direct comparison with the R400, just drop in an engine of your choice and bob's your uncle, quite why the motor industry bother spending billions every year developing new cars is beyond me. 
RoverP6B said:
MiseryStreak said:
What a strange thing to say. So everyone considering buying a 400bhp 4WD Hatchback should buy a second hand boggo BMW estate and do an engine transplant instead?
Also, is a forced induction straight six that different in throttle repsonse/lag etc. to a modern turbo 4 pot? How does the rev limit compare?
I didn't say they SHOULD, I said I COULD and the result would be superior to the Golf R400 because of the inherently superior chassis and engine. And yes, the inherently balanced straight six, with no balancer shafts trying vainly to cancel out the vibration of a 4-cylinder engine, is a far sweeter thing than the straight four. The BMW twin-turbo setup also means less lag than the single-turbo setup on the Golf.Also, is a forced induction straight six that different in throttle repsonse/lag etc. to a modern turbo 4 pot? How does the rev limit compare?
An inline four is a naturally balanced engine, that's one of the reasons it's such a popular configuration, no balancer shafts required.
Evo magazine loved the Golf R and they have never had a VW bias, almost always favouring a Renaultsport product over the equivalent VW one, they rated the Golf R as one of the best hot hatches of all time.
Anyway, I don't wish to argue over it any further, it's not for you (nor me as it happens , the main reason being that I don't have £40-50K to spend on a car), but I don't think you will find much favour slating the transverse engined hatchback configuration on here.
MiseryStreak said:
An inline four is a naturally balanced engine, that's one of the reasons it's such a popular configuration, no balancer shafts required.
Wrong. Inline 4-cylinder engines are inherently unbalanced and so require balancer shafts. From my old E46 318i to Alfa 2.0 Twin Sparks to Porsche 968s, most four-cylinder engines possess two balancer shafts, one near the crankshaft, one further up the engine. This consumes power, adds friction and contributes to powertrain inertia. A straight six, on the other hand, IS inherently balanced and requires no vibration-cancelling, so you're not losing power driving balancer shafts.RoverP6B said:
And why is it winning? Because the journos are given VW's hospitality etc and are wowed by the straight-line go the thing has. It doesn't matter how many group tests it wins, a FWD-based Haldex system will NEVER be an acceptable solution for a proper high-performance car.
Your anti anthything that's not RWD is, well, obvious! What constitutes a performance car in your eyes is your choice, but to bladder everything else is short sighted indeed.Sorry, you must be an expert driver of course that can fully exploit all these RWD chassis to the full and anything else doesn't do it for you!!
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