RE: Price hike: PH Blog
Discussion
Chapppers said:
Are we experiencing the desperate scrabble to buy something interesting before the dawn of the self-driving, electric, insurance black-box fitted, speed limited, white goods cars?
I believe this is the case. I also believe that prices won’t come down significantly until the lawmakers decide to ban our "classic cars" or we have to get our fuel in 500ml bottles from the pharmacy. The former won’t happen anytime soon because there’s enough money in the industry to pay lobbyists. The latter... well, hopefully not in my lifetime.GRBF430F1 said:
Ffffaster said:
LOL! Right on cue. This joker again!
You were partially banned for trolling on CS threads and doing nothing but talking up your Gallardo. I own neither car (and I would love either), but you really are predictable. It's a little bit pathetic no?
IMHO yes you are pathethic if you have nothing constructive to add to the debate. If you haven't driven either I don't think you should be able to comment full stop car.You were partially banned for trolling on CS threads and doing nothing but talking up your Gallardo. I own neither car (and I would love either), but you really are predictable. It's a little bit pathetic no?
And remember when LP570-4's ARE the next BIG thing you heard it from me first and I look forward to you eating humble pie sir
(b) I've spent plenty of time with plenty of Italian supercars, but that is besides the point. The point I am making is that you are a troll and a number of members on the forum think you're a joke. That is constructive enough if it assists other well-meaning people who haven't seen you post in the past waste time engaging you in what they think would be a balanced debate, and even more so if a moderator picks up the fact that you're on the prowl playing the same tired old tune again.
(c) As a matter of discipline, why don't you try and go a few posts without pimping your car? It's a nice and all, but it's really not part of this debate or in the same league as a number of cars being discussed here. Try to stay on point - you might find you're appreciated for it.
If the E30M3 is worth that the rhd alpina must be worth investing in.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
melvster said:
The Yen has fallen slightly though in the past 12 months, i frequently browse the Japanese market for NSX's, Vogue Sports were selling a 2006 example for 30m Yen, £240k !!! .......
http://vogue-sports.com/detail.html?sid=1249
.....but prices have slipped a little recently. With only around 140 ever built they are always going to command big money especially in Japan. No doubt in 10 years time most will be £160k +. Amazing car and the first i would buy if i won the lotto.
Cheapest NA2 R available, £113k + Taxes and shipping.
http://www.carsensor.net/usedcar/detail/CU25869063...
I'm in a similar boat, but only I'm hankering for the even rarer S-zero (only 41 made if I'm not mistaken.)! I know there are a lot of cars that you could buy for the money that both these cars attract but for me there is some allure that the NSX has on me. As long as they stay sub-100k (before shipping) by the time I'm in the market for one I'll be happy http://vogue-sports.com/detail.html?sid=1249
.....but prices have slipped a little recently. With only around 140 ever built they are always going to command big money especially in Japan. No doubt in 10 years time most will be £160k +. Amazing car and the first i would buy if i won the lotto.
Cheapest NA2 R available, £113k + Taxes and shipping.
http://www.carsensor.net/usedcar/detail/CU25869063...
rb26 said:
I'm in a similar boat, but only I'm hankering for the even rarer S-zero (only 41 made if I'm not mistaken.)! I know there are a lot of cars that you could buy for the money that both these cars attract but for me there is some allure that the NSX has on me. As long as they stay sub-100k (before shipping) by the time I'm in the market for one I'll be happy
Same for me...... But the NSX has something which sparks my interest more than a Ferrari or Lamborghini. An S Zero finished in Imola Orange with the matching black and orange seats. Heaven 
DanielSan said:
Could be a good time to buy a phase 1 Clio V6. I've wanted one for years and always put myself off actually buying one. It's a car we'll never see the like of again and I can see their values climbing.
Agree especially as Phase 2's are hitting 20k now, it's only a matter of time before the Phase 1 goes the same way. Awesome looking car which we will never see again.toppstuff said:
In fairness, you are rather over-egging the Gallardo thing.
IMO it is the early Gallardo that will really perform well. Especially manuals. They are remarkable value for money when you consider how much a new Huracan is likely to cost.
I would rather have two early Gallardo in my garage than a single performante.
It is too early for the performante IMO to be discovered as a bargain. . But it is not a GT3 RS 4.0. It isn't going to go mental. At best, I think it will not lose money for the next few years and then begin to pick up in a few years.
But what do I know..
I don't disagree with you and I might be slightly biased towards LP models but as one of the last normally aspirated supercars that still has a sense of occasion and FUN Gallardo's in general are going to retain strong residuals.IMO it is the early Gallardo that will really perform well. Especially manuals. They are remarkable value for money when you consider how much a new Huracan is likely to cost.
I would rather have two early Gallardo in my garage than a single performante.
It is too early for the performante IMO to be discovered as a bargain. . But it is not a GT3 RS 4.0. It isn't going to go mental. At best, I think it will not lose money for the next few years and then begin to pick up in a few years.
But what do I know..
Maybe its my age but I'm not into classics and the latest super smooth super efficient supercars like 458, and MP4 12C are so damn good and fast they lack the sense of fun unless you are travelling at license losing speeds. Ferrari have gone some way to addressing this with the 458 special but now we are talking £250k so in comparison a Performante does seem a bargain at almost half the price.
We can all have an opinion and whatever yours is, its right. If you put your money where your mouth if its definitely right
melvster said:
Same for me...... But the NSX has something which sparks my interest more than a Ferrari or Lamborghini. An S Zero finished in Imola Orange with the matching black and orange seats. Heaven
I agree, especially the new breeds from the Italian's. They leave me a little cold with all the electronic gubbens and paddle shift only. The NSX is pure and focused totally on the driver! To be honest I'd take the S-zero in whatever colour I could get! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE1QVGodqDQ
But if it was up to me I'd go for the blue or black!
Ffffaster said:
(a) You were banned precisely because you've had nothing constructive to add - a quite amusing case of a pot calling the kettle black. It is quite telling that you seem to either gloss over or forget that point.
(b) I've spent plenty of time with plenty of Italian supercars, but that is besides the point. The point I am making is that you are a troll and a number of members on the forum think you're a joke. That is constructive enough if it assists other well-meaning people who haven't seen you post in the past waste time engaging you in what they think would be a balanced debate, and even more so if a moderator picks up the fact that you're on the prowl playing the same tired old tune again.
(c) As a matter of discipline, why don't you try and go a few posts without pimping your car? It's a nice and all, but it's really not part of this debate or in the same league as a number of cars being discussed here. Try to stay on point - you might find you're appreciated for it.
Yet another constructive post ????? You really don't get it or add any value to any thread so jog on before you are banned for your personal and abusive posts(b) I've spent plenty of time with plenty of Italian supercars, but that is besides the point. The point I am making is that you are a troll and a number of members on the forum think you're a joke. That is constructive enough if it assists other well-meaning people who haven't seen you post in the past waste time engaging you in what they think would be a balanced debate, and even more so if a moderator picks up the fact that you're on the prowl playing the same tired old tune again.
(c) As a matter of discipline, why don't you try and go a few posts without pimping your car? It's a nice and all, but it's really not part of this debate or in the same league as a number of cars being discussed here. Try to stay on point - you might find you're appreciated for it.
RB Will said:
Really am kicking myself for buying an E30 325is rather than an E30 m3 at the time they were about £8-10k. It was just a daily car as I had a fun weekender already so went for the cheaper option 
I sort of feel the same way - I 'nearly' bought an e30 M3 so many times but always went for a more modern alternative. In reality though, if I had, and had kept it, which would be mightily unlikely, it would be fit for nothing but the scrap heap by now.
Crusoe said:
If the E30M3 is worth that the rhd alpina must be worth investing in.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
These have already gone up substantially in the last few years, as has the 320iS, but will always be capped by the M3 values IMO despite being a lot rarerhttp://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
The B6 3.5S will similarily be capped by the much less rare Sport Evo I think
melvster said:
Agree especially as Phase 2's are hitting 20k now, it's only a matter of time before the Phase 1 goes the same way. Awesome looking car which we will never see again.
The couple for sale at the moment are around 12-13k, think lowest I've ever seen one at was 8500 or there abouts. Leins said:
Crusoe said:
If the E30M3 is worth that the rhd alpina must be worth investing in.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
These have already gone up substantially in the last few years, as has the 320iS, but will always be capped by the M3 values IMO despite being a lot rarerhttp://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
The B6 3.5S will similarily be capped by the much less rare Sport Evo I think
SprintSpeciale said:
The market is frothy, for sure. This can be explained in part because cars, like other so called "collectibles", have benefited from the atypical investment environment in recent years. The combination of very low interest rates and a prolonged recession have meant that investors seeking yield have ventured outside of the traditioanl investment markets (stocks, bonds) and dabbled in other assets. This has particularly been the case for wealthy private individuals who, faced with the choice between a low return on equities or bonds or the fun of owning something like a classic Ferrari, have decided to get some fun along with their potential economic upside.
The concern for others thinking of making the plunge is twofold. First, as the financial markets return to a more "normal" paradigm, the interest in collectibles will wane. That will lead to a migration of cash from the car market into other investments. Second, as with any bubble, as prices of the genuinely collectible assets rise, and climb beyond the reach of mere mortals, there is a ripple effect that drags up the prices of more ordinary stuff (in the way Chris describes). When the prices start to fall, it is likely to be those who "invested" in the second tier who feel a lot of pain having overpaid for "ordinary" metal.
For what it's worth, my view on buying cars for long term value is that you should look for (at a minimum) these three things:
1. a premium badge - there are plenty of views on what this actually means, but a racing peigree/history is a good starting point
2. the car was expensive, or expensive relative to its direct competition, when it was new
3. there are not many about.
On that basis, I purchased a 1964 Alfa Sprint Speciale and a 1961 Maserati 3500GT. Will I make money on them? Hopefully - but ultimately they were bought because I think they are things of beauty, I intend to carry on driving them, and they give me a lot of pleasure. And, given what I paid for them, it would be a big shock if over any period of time they cost me more than running my modern cars!
Absolutely correct. I sold stock and bought a DB4 last year. My objective is to enjoy it and that it holds its value over five years. Based on the first year I think I can be as sure of that as I can be about the stock market or cash. And I cannot drive a house. The concern for others thinking of making the plunge is twofold. First, as the financial markets return to a more "normal" paradigm, the interest in collectibles will wane. That will lead to a migration of cash from the car market into other investments. Second, as with any bubble, as prices of the genuinely collectible assets rise, and climb beyond the reach of mere mortals, there is a ripple effect that drags up the prices of more ordinary stuff (in the way Chris describes). When the prices start to fall, it is likely to be those who "invested" in the second tier who feel a lot of pain having overpaid for "ordinary" metal.
For what it's worth, my view on buying cars for long term value is that you should look for (at a minimum) these three things:
1. a premium badge - there are plenty of views on what this actually means, but a racing peigree/history is a good starting point
2. the car was expensive, or expensive relative to its direct competition, when it was new
3. there are not many about.
On that basis, I purchased a 1964 Alfa Sprint Speciale and a 1961 Maserati 3500GT. Will I make money on them? Hopefully - but ultimately they were bought because I think they are things of beauty, I intend to carry on driving them, and they give me a lot of pleasure. And, given what I paid for them, it would be a big shock if over any period of time they cost me more than running my modern cars!
Next up is F550M, last of the V12 manuals, and I've got used to the looks now. Or a Vanquish S.. yes 997 GT3RS absolutely a good one, just not my CoT. My Spyker C8 is a risky one - will either tank or go crazy at some point. So just enjoy it.
Does nobody remember the peak in (I think) 1989 which was driven by new Japanese money buying everything in sight? And then the crash.
I'm not going to make a prediction, but it seems likely that at some point the market will come back down. Will the next generation of millionaires want to buy E-Types as much as the current generation, for instance?
I'm not going to make a prediction, but it seems likely that at some point the market will come back down. Will the next generation of millionaires want to buy E-Types as much as the current generation, for instance?
I think the cultural point is a good one. My impression is that most of the value surge comes when a proportion of a particular generation has made a lot of money and the people with the money decide they can buy the cars they always wanted when they were around 12-16 years old. Barring the really unique and historical things, I think that means values of most hotly desired cars will tend to fade away a while, as that generation gets too old to drive
I could be wrong but if you look back to the mid '80s I seem to remember there being far more interest in pre-war cars than now, and that in the '80s boom the Jaguar XK 120/140/150 were much stronger in relation to the E-Type than they are today.
Not that they are regarded as chopped liver now, but I think there's a wave effect that moves forward with time.
I could be wrong but if you look back to the mid '80s I seem to remember there being far more interest in pre-war cars than now, and that in the '80s boom the Jaguar XK 120/140/150 were much stronger in relation to the E-Type than they are today.
Not that they are regarded as chopped liver now, but I think there's a wave effect that moves forward with time.
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