Top spec 'normal' car vs. entry level 'premium'
Discussion
ZX10R NIN said:
Personally I'd always go for the higher specification especially when your going to have it for the next 3-4 years why have a lesser spec'd car when you can have all the toys
I had this conversation a few times with people. I went for a highly spec'd golf gti - it was suggested I lease a golf r or m135i - problem was yes a high spec GTI may be similar price to an entry of the other two but by the time I added a few options I wanted, the costs shot up. So it came down to 3-4 years of a car in my spec, or 3-4 years in one without the bits I wanted. dme123 said:
Whether or not that's an issue for you is a different matter. I would find it very difficult to accept the harshness of a 4 pot diesel engine in a £40k car, far from perfect in a £30k car and a perfectly sensible compromise in a £20k car. I do find it very strange that so many people are willing to tolerate the noise and vibration when they do such tiny mileages that they must save a couple of hundred quid a year - even my old mum as refused to have another diesel as she cannot stick the noise in the little hatchbacks she drives.
This^^^^.My father has an S350cdi. Its a nice big car, but the noise is everything diesel, a pleasant 6pot noise and fine, but you can hear it at times if it was petrol powered you simply wouldn't and at idle you can feel a slight vibration through the steering wheel.
Mercedes now offer a 4pot in that car, it will ruin it.
4pot diesels are fine for normally family cars, although you can get a quieter and almost as effcient petrol for those which is better.
5,6 and 8 clyinder engines for posh makes. Otherwise, mechanically you are paying for lobster, but getting cod. If I pay lobster prices, I want lobster, and if I pay for cod, I am happy with cod.
Edited by st4 on Saturday 7th March 14:12
It is always interesting on threads like this how some people believe themselves so much of an enthusiast, driver and so much of a purist that they could not possibly tolerate 4-cylinders/diesel/front wheel drive/turbo/less than 150bhp/wheels less than 19"/no parking sensors etc. etc.
MC Bodge said:
It is always interesting on threads like this how some people believe themselves so much of an enthusiast, driver and so much of a purist that they could not possibly tolerate 4-cylinders/diesel/front wheel drive/turbo/less than 150bhp/wheels less than 19"/no parking sensors etc. etc.
Yea, it's almost like people seem to exercise personal preference when choosing a car. How odd.Sincerely,
Somebody who wouldn't want a 4 cylinder front wheel drive diesel with less than 150bhp and no parking sensors.
MC Bodge said:
It is always interesting on threads like this how some people believe themselves so much of an enthusiast, driver and so much of a purist that they could not possibly tolerate 4-cylinders/diesel/front wheel drive/turbo/less than 150bhp/wheels less than 19"/no parking sensors etc. etc.
I don't mind FWD, 4pot, small wheels, 150bhp etc, but at a price consumerate with that sort of car. Like £10k for a 3yo Honda Accord, not £40k for a BMW with a noisy 4pot diesel. Devil2575 said:
kambites said:
Well "refinement" is the obvious answer. Certainly in the bigger cars which are meant to be luxurious.
But is a 520d really not refined? These days O suggest you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference between a diesel and petrol BMW from the passenger seat.Modern diesel engines are very impressive in terms of power and economy but I'm not convinced the engines themselves are any more refined than they were 30 years ago, although sound-proofing appears to have improved significantly.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 7th March 15:08
dme123 said:
I've been reading that for 10+ years in the press "you'd be hard pressed to tell what fuel it uses" and it's no more true now than it was 10 years ago. Perhaps I have bat ears but even in a 7 series I can quite clearly hear the engine in a diesel and I can quite clearly hear that it IS a diesel engine too. The V6 Diesel in a Jaguar is a fantastically refined thing for a diesel, and the noise when pressing on is actually quite nice, but you'd have to have beans in your ears or in your head to not know that it's a diesel.
Whether or not that's an issue for you is a different matter. I would find it very difficult to accept the harshness of a 4 pot diesel engine in a £40k car, far from perfect in a £30k car and a perfectly sensible compromise in a £20k car. I do find it very strange that so many people are willing to tolerate the noise and vibration when they do such tiny mileages that they must save a couple of hundred quid a year - even my old mum as refused to have another diesel as she cannot stick the noise in the little hatchbacks she drives.
Is it the noise or the vibration through your backside ? If you were wearing ear defenders, could you tell the difference? I reckon so.Whether or not that's an issue for you is a different matter. I would find it very difficult to accept the harshness of a 4 pot diesel engine in a £40k car, far from perfect in a £30k car and a perfectly sensible compromise in a £20k car. I do find it very strange that so many people are willing to tolerate the noise and vibration when they do such tiny mileages that they must save a couple of hundred quid a year - even my old mum as refused to have another diesel as she cannot stick the noise in the little hatchbacks she drives.
Pit Pony said:
Is it the noise or the vibration through your backside ? If you were wearing ear defenders, could you tell the difference? I reckon so.
I think with the very best barges you'd be hard pressed to feel the vibration. Modern active engine mounts are very impressive things. MC Bodge said:
Can you tell the difference between octane rating and manufacturer?
Or do you mean Diesel or Otto cycle?
I meant diesel vs spark ignition. I can do leaded vs unleaded and cat vs no cat as long as I can smell the exhaust fumes, if that helps. Or do you mean Diesel or Otto cycle?
I'm sure some people reckon then can tell Shell Optimax from Asda from the passenger seat, but I'm a bit dubious. I've no idea whether you can tell Otto from Atkinson by feel?
Edited by kambites on Saturday 7th March 15:47
Tolerance of 4 cylinders or diesel must be like the fairy tale of the princess and the pea 
Well, I can tell what Alpha Male image I am portraying from the driving seat from the softness of the dashboard plastics -Although I've never yet met anyone who touches a dashboard.
Well, I can tell what Alpha Male image I am portraying from the driving seat from the softness of the dashboard plastics -Although I've never yet met anyone who touches a dashboard.
Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 7th March 16:03
Sheepshanks said:
MC Bodge said:
A 520d is hardly "labouring"....
I thought that was an odd comment too, especially as most of them will be auto, so the gearbox takes care of that.MC Bodge said:
the point being that millions of people manage with these things, without any difficulty.
A 520d is hardly "labouring"....
A 520d Msport Touring is 105bhp per tonne (1800kg and 190bhp), which is within a couple of BHP/Tonne of a Fiat Panda 100. For reference, a 120d is more than 130bhp per tonne. A 520d is hardly "labouring"....
It's not the fact that it's a diesel or that it's 4 cylinder that makes it underpowered. It's the fact it's heavy and doesn't have much comparative power that makes it underpowered.
You could always go for a 518d Touring, with a staggering 83bhp/tonne, which is the same as an old shape 1.0 Citroen C1. You could then pretend that's not labouring along, too.
chr15b said:
I had this conversation a few times with people. I went for a highly spec'd golf gti - it was suggested I lease a golf r or m135i - problem was yes a high spec GTI may be similar price to an entry of the other two but by the time I added a few options I wanted, the costs shot up. So it came down to 3-4 years of a car in my spec, or 3-4 years in one without the bits I wanted.
3-4 years in a car of your own spec every time why have a basic Golf R when you can drive around in a well spec'd GTI for me the later would always be the only option.kambites said:
A 100bhp/tonne car will NOT labour if driven properly. It's certainly not going to be fast, but neither is it underpowered for the use most people put these cars to.
With respect you're confusing my earlier use of 'labouring', as in it's burdened by a power deficit in light of its weight, with labouring as in the verb used to describe when an engine is bogging down and in difficulty (which it ought to be obvious is not what I meant).A 518d or 520d touring labours along with an underpowered (for its weight) engine. As for the engine, I have nothing against it- I've just ordered one in a 3 Series.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff