RE: BMW M4 GTS - full details

[Olivera]

Leins said:

Why is everyone so sure this is going to be a great investment? The 1M was an anomaly, in that I cannot remember another BMW that has traded above list continuously for a number of years post-introduction

Go look up the previous gen M3 GTS and M3 CRT values:

http://www.meresidemotors.com/bmw-m3-gts-1-of-15-u...

[X5TUU]

Honestly, I like it ...

its crass
its OTT
its unnecessary

I dont care that its £120k just the same as the used market wont consider a modded M4 to similar power and weight to be the same as this ... it will always have a certain kudos in both collector and driver fields alike

[AngusDavie]

MrBarry123 said:

AngusDavie said:

Spot on, the manufacturers will have got together the potential buyers and said what would you pay for a limited car that only 700 other people could buy. they say 100k or 120k etc then the manufacturers price it accordingly.

I doubt that happened.

It does happen but isn't as obvious as my post its all cloak and dagger stuff, but they do do their homework and this price wouldn't have just been plucked from thin air.

In regards to values i agree that i think the Porsche GT3, GT3RS or GT4 are better & more appealing cars but mark my words this thing will be worth a fortune for the lucky few who get them.

[TaylotS2K]

They've gone all Smokey and the bandit, Trans Am Firebird with the wheels.

[sealtt]

Olivera said:

Go look up the previous gen M3 GTS and M3 CRT values:

http://www.meresidemotors.com/bmw-m3-gts-1-of-15-u...

Are you trying to say that an advertised price (not an actual sale price) below what the real-money retail price of an M3 GTS was when new is a good return?

Or are you showing that the M3 GTS was also a bad investment - the same as this latest model is sure to be. That is not to say a bad purchase to the right person, but certainly not worth considering as an investment where the goal is to make an inflation adjusted positive net return on your capital.

[AngusDavie]

Leins said:

Why is everyone so sure this is going to be a great investment? The 1M was an anomaly, in that I cannot remember another BMW that has traded above list continuously for a number of years post-introduction

These cars generally have a habit of finding their equilibrium point, which to me is relevant to what the Porsche-equivalents are trading at, much like Black Series AMGs do. In this case I think 991 GT3s will keep them honest financially. 700 is not that limited a number, and personally something like a Cayman GT4 appeals more both as a concept and a value proposition (if you could get one)

Leins the reason why it is a good investment is because of its limited numbers more than anything else. it doesnt really matter how fast it is on how long it takes to get round that big german toll road its the fact that only 29 other people in the UK could have a UK car.

The 1M is holding its value for the same reason, not many of them out there and everyone thought it was a great car at a great price.

[sumpoil]

lee_erm said:

The new Mustang GT350R has lapped the ring in 7 minutes and 32 seconds. A GT350R is £41,485 if you buy one in the states. I'm going to call this pretty dreadful value.

Well said that man! ..... I look at the price of the BMW (even the standard M4) and other stuff like the Nissan GTR and I can't believe Ford are finding it difficult to make a business case in Europe for a £55k GT350R.

[DB9VolanteDriver]

This vs a low mile DBS for 100K? Ha, ha, ha.....

[Olivera]

sealtt said:

Olivera said:

Go look up the previous gen M3 GTS and M3 CRT values:

http://www.meresidemotors.com/bmw-m3-gts-1-of-15-u...

Are you trying to say that an advertised price (not an actual sale price) below what the real-money retail price of an M3 GTS was when new is a good return?

Or are you showing that the M3 GTS was also a bad investment - the same as this latest model is sure to be. That is not to say a bad purchase to the right person, but certainly not worth considering as an investment where the goal is to make an inflation adjusted positive net return on your capital.

Calm down dear. Since the GTS listed at £115,215 in the UK, I was merely showing an example of one that *may* achieve higher than list. Not a great investment per se, but certainly a very good modern car to place ones money.

[cure]

Wizardskills said:

Love that it has fabric door handles for lightness but then also has a huge iPad stuck to the top of the dash . No doubt it will sell, but it could have been so much better.

Even better is that the original handles are still there as well. They took the 'add lightness' thing a bit litterally.

[sealtt]

Olivera said:

Calm down dear.

[AngusDavie]

Olivera said:

sealtt said:

Olivera said:

Go look up the previous gen M3 GTS and M3 CRT values:

http://www.meresidemotors.com/bmw-m3-gts-1-of-15-u...

Are you trying to say that an advertised price (not an actual sale price) below what the real-money retail price of an M3 GTS was when new is a good return?

Or are you showing that the M3 GTS was also a bad investment - the same as this latest model is sure to be. That is not to say a bad purchase to the right person, but certainly not worth considering as an investment where the goal is to make an inflation adjusted positive net return on your capital.

Calm down dear. Since the GTS listed at £115,215 in the UK, I was merely showing an example of one that *may* achieve higher than list. Not a great investment per se, but certainly a very good modern car to place ones money.

LOL calm down dear - gave me a chuckle.

yes this may achieve more than list or it may not but after 4 yrs of ownership what would you get back on an M3 in general? 50% if your lucky? least with this it a money back or as near as dammit and what do you think this will be worth in another 4 /5 years time?

Im saying this M4 GTS is a long term investment (10yrs plus) then you'e basically got a money printer.

E30 M3 Evo comes to mind...

[Leins]

AngusDavie said:

Leins said:

Why is everyone so sure this is going to be a great investment? The 1M was an anomaly, in that I cannot remember another BMW that has traded above list continuously for a number of years post-introduction

These cars generally have a habit of finding their equilibrium point, which to me is relevant to what the Porsche-equivalents are trading at, much like Black Series AMGs do. In this case I think 991 GT3s will keep them honest financially. 700 is not that limited a number, and personally something like a Cayman GT4 appeals more both as a concept and a value proposition (if you could get one)

Leins the reason why it is a good investment is because of its limited numbers more than anything else. it doesnt really matter how fast it is on how long it takes to get round that big german toll road its the fact that only 29 other people in the UK could have a UK car.

The 1M is holding its value for the same reason, not many of them out there and everyone thought it was a great car at a great price.

But who thinks this is a great car at a great price? The 1M was good value IMO for what it was. I understand the concept of low volume specials, but they all (bar the 1M) drop below list when nearly new. These are not Porsches, and I certainly wouldn't want to risk £120k on one if my main goal was to make money on one. Actually I suspect I wouldn't want one for any reason

[Amirhussain]

sealtt said:

Guvernator said:

Take a normal M3\M4, give it a remap, give it a titanium exhaust and carbon airbox to make it sound how it should, get rid of the fake noise maker, shed excess weight WITHOUT loosing the reat seats, surely with nearly 1600kg to play with 100kg is possible, stick a CSL badge on it, sell them for £75k and watch them fly out the door. It's not rocket science.

Yeah because the E46 CSL flew outta the showrooms...

[sealtt]

AngusDavie said:

LOL calm down dear - gave me a chuckle.

yes this may achieve more than list or it may not but after 4 yrs of ownership what would you get back on an M3 in general? 50% if your lucky? least with this it a money back or as near as dammit and what do you think this will be worth in another 4 /5 years time?

Im saying this M4 GTS is a long term investment (10yrs plus) then you'e basically got a money printer.

E30 M3 Evo comes to mind...

I can only presume this is a dummy account set up by a desperate BMW rep, troubled by the way this thread has gone.

The E30 M3 Evo has barely kept up with inflation, certainly a long way off being a good investment and almost certainly a net loser when you consider cost of holding (e.g. maintenance, cost of capital, etc). The notion of an M4 GTS being a money printer is absolutely laughable, it will never get close to a positive net real-money gain.

[Guvernator]

Amirhussain said:

Yeah because the E46 CSL flew outta the showrooms...

I think BMW where ahead of their time and no-one really got the CSL when it was first released. Now of course they are only going up in value as people realise what a corker they made. I think the world would be A LOT more receptive to a new CSL now.

[Amirhussain]

Guvernator said:

Amirhussain said:

Yeah because the E46 CSL flew outta the showrooms...

I think BMW where ahead of their time and no-one really got the CSL when it was first released. Now of course they are only going up in value as people realise what a corker they made. I think the world would be A LOT more receptive to a new CSL now.

Fair point.

[WCZ]

AngusDavie said:

Im saying this M4 GTS is a long term investment (10yrs plus) then you'e basically got a money printer.

the m3 gts hasn't appreciated and there's only 15RHD examples that exist AND it was the last normally aspirated limited edition M3 that most likely will ever exist

I personally doubt the M4 GTS will be a 'money printer' and ever even trade for a premium.

[Olivera]

sealtt said:

The E30 M3 Evo has barely kept up with inflation, certainly a long way off being a good investment and almost certainly a net loser when you consider cost of holding (e.g. maintenance, cost of capital, etc). The notion of an M4 GTS being a money printer is absolutely laughable, it will never get close to a positive net real-money gain.

You seem to be getting confused with this whole subject, so let me clarify things for you.

When we talk about cars being a 'good investment' we generally do not mean an investment in the literal sense, i.e. making a positive return on capital once costs are deducted. We are instead categorising a car which has very slow depreciation when compared with peers.

Does that help?

[Leins]

Olivera said:

sealtt said:

The E30 M3 Evo has barely kept up with inflation, certainly a long way off being a good investment and almost certainly a net loser when you consider cost of holding (e.g. maintenance, cost of capital, etc). The notion of an M4 GTS being a money printer is absolutely laughable, it will never get close to a positive net real-money gain.

You seem to be getting confused with this whole subject, so let me clarify things for you.

When we talk about cars being a 'good investment' we generally do not mean an investment in the literal sense, i.e. making a positive return on capital once costs are deducted. We are instead categorising a car which has very slow depreciation when compared with peers.

Does that help?

I don't. An investment car (IMO)!is one you financially gain from over your ownership, which is a very difficult thing to do and not one that I've ever really managed. Everyone keeps telling me my CSL was a great investment, but I'd be lucky to break even now despite buying at the "low"

An 964 RS would have been a great investment over the same time scale