RE: Porsche 718 Boxster S: Review
Discussion
'Even exiting a 30 zone in fifth it'll pick up without a grumble, pulling hard where the normally-aspirated engine would be shuddering like a minicabber trying to haul his Avensis off the line in fourth'
I very rarely post in here, tend to skulk around reading most of the time, but I must pull the writer up on the above statement, which is utter crap.
I have a 987.2 Boxster (albeit PDK) and it'll quite happily pull in 5th without a murmur, grumble or shudder at 30 mph. In fact it'll pull cleanly (OK not quickly) in 6th. It's a fairly big 3.4 litre engine, and is quite tractable with a fair amount of torque.
I've no doubt the new 718 will sell bucket loads, on paper it's improved in every single area, BHP/torque, mpg, co2, 0-60 etc. etc. but since the change to the 4 pot it's not longer under consideration for me for my next car. I've had a fair few 4 pot turbo cars, and my last one (Audi S3) would in most situations leave my 987.2 for dead. However they've all been very dull, lack throttle response and more importantly for me - a nice noise (and by this I mean tuneful, not a loud tuneless blare that comes from most 4 pots I hear, S3/R/AMG etc.)
I can potter around town under 30 mph, listening to that glorious flat 6 through my GT Carnewal exhaust. In the S3 I may as well have been in the 1.4 TSi.
My old scoobies had some character, I like a bit of nothing, nothing, nothing, woo-hoo there's booooost, and I am quite partial to the offbeat warble. But not in a Porsche, not in a roadster and not at that price level. GTS 981 for me I think next.
I very rarely post in here, tend to skulk around reading most of the time, but I must pull the writer up on the above statement, which is utter crap.
I have a 987.2 Boxster (albeit PDK) and it'll quite happily pull in 5th without a murmur, grumble or shudder at 30 mph. In fact it'll pull cleanly (OK not quickly) in 6th. It's a fairly big 3.4 litre engine, and is quite tractable with a fair amount of torque.
I've no doubt the new 718 will sell bucket loads, on paper it's improved in every single area, BHP/torque, mpg, co2, 0-60 etc. etc. but since the change to the 4 pot it's not longer under consideration for me for my next car. I've had a fair few 4 pot turbo cars, and my last one (Audi S3) would in most situations leave my 987.2 for dead. However they've all been very dull, lack throttle response and more importantly for me - a nice noise (and by this I mean tuneful, not a loud tuneless blare that comes from most 4 pots I hear, S3/R/AMG etc.)
I can potter around town under 30 mph, listening to that glorious flat 6 through my GT Carnewal exhaust. In the S3 I may as well have been in the 1.4 TSi.
My old scoobies had some character, I like a bit of nothing, nothing, nothing, woo-hoo there's booooost, and I am quite partial to the offbeat warble. But not in a Porsche, not in a roadster and not at that price level. GTS 981 for me I think next.
Avalyn said:
I very rarely post in here, tend to skulk around reading most of the time, but I must pull the writer up on the above statement, which is utter crap.
Defensive answer - your PDK's fifth will likely be shorter than the manual fifth given it's a seven-speeder (edit - I checked, it is!). Honest answer - you'll have to indulge me a little artistic licence in making the point there and I accept I may have over-dramatised it a tad! Given your taste for properly boosty engines I'd be interested to hear your views on this car too. At least do a test drive and report back, while driving home happily in your current car!
Cheers,
Dan
Someone with more time/better maths will have to judge whether the different final drive ratio makes PDK's 5th longer or shorter than the manual's!
Edited by Dan Trent on Tuesday 5th April 09:32
The Boxster used to be 'ok value' but this is a complete joke. It's a lot more expensive with a far 'worse' engine. I know an Exige Roadster hasn't got the daily conveniences of a Boxster but it just has become one hell of an alternative for anyone that values the driving experience above everything else.
MyCC said:
A 3-cylinder turbo would have at least had more character and would actually be closer in sound to the early early 911s
For some reason the PDK is about 10-15% lower geared than the manual. Also, the PDK is taller geared than the manual from teh numbers above - that 3.25 FDR is much taller than the 3.88 on the manual (using 5th as example):
3.88*0.97 = 3.76 total ratio
3.25*1.08 = 3.51 total ratio <- PDK has a taller gear in 5th than the manual
Here's a video of somebody driving it the beans with open sports exhaust valves.
https://youtu.be/UoAIuHDLGdY?t=32
I think this sounds extremely unrefined and unpleasant, much like a Golf R with a higher rev limit. The M135i without the sound generator sounds far better. Sad state of affairs.
Golf R:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNHlfJv_fqo
M135i:
https://youtu.be/WyxGyhIobjM?t=21
I agree that an extremely high output 3 cylinder would have been more interesting choice. BMW i8 sounds quite good too. Even the little VW up! has hints of early 911 to its sound when you rev it out. Suppose it would have been hard to market a car with an I3 engine as a "Boxster".
https://youtu.be/UoAIuHDLGdY?t=32
I think this sounds extremely unrefined and unpleasant, much like a Golf R with a higher rev limit. The M135i without the sound generator sounds far better. Sad state of affairs.
Golf R:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNHlfJv_fqo
M135i:
https://youtu.be/WyxGyhIobjM?t=21
I agree that an extremely high output 3 cylinder would have been more interesting choice. BMW i8 sounds quite good too. Even the little VW up! has hints of early 911 to its sound when you rev it out. Suppose it would have been hard to market a car with an I3 engine as a "Boxster".
Edited by EricE on Tuesday 5th April 09:57
Dan Trent said:
Defensive answer - your PDK's fifth will likely be shorter than the manual fifth given it's a seven-speeder (edit - I checked, it is!). Honest answer - you'll have to indulge me a little artistic licence in making the point there and I accept I may have over-dramatised it a tad!
Given your taste for properly boosty engines I'd be interested to hear your views on this car too. At least do a test drive and report back, while driving home happily in your current car!
Cheers,
Dan
Someone with more time/better maths will have to judge whether the different final drive ratio makes PDK's 5th longer or shorter than the manual's!
Dan, Ok, I'll accept giving you a bit of artistic license Given your taste for properly boosty engines I'd be interested to hear your views on this car too. At least do a test drive and report back, while driving home happily in your current car!
Cheers,
Dan
Someone with more time/better maths will have to judge whether the different final drive ratio makes PDK's 5th longer or shorter than the manual's!
Edited by Dan Trent on Tuesday 5th April 09:32
... I know my cars gear ratios are a bit shorter than the manual cars (extra ratio) but I highly doubt even the manual in 5th will grumble and shudder. Still there's nothing wrong with a bit of dramatization, makes for better reading ..I've an invite to drive the 718, and may try and find some time to do so, and will report back.
I'd much rather the 718 had characteristics similar to imported STi from a few years back, not a lot until about 4K and then ooooft, off we go. There's something appealing about the rate of change of acceleration and clattering into a rev limiter at 8K. I'm just not a big fan of the flat torque curve from 1,800 and breathless in the upper reaches. Quick and effortless it may be, dull is another word.
What I describe wouldn't sell cars though, and I suspect would have most people complaining about lack of performance (errr change gears then you numptie, that's what they are there for)
GroundEffect said:
Wrong. Lower gearing hurts the transmission more; bigger delta across the input/output shaft.
Also, the PDK is taller geared than the manual from teh numbers above - that 3.25 FDR is much taller than the 3.88 on the manual (using 5th as example):
3.88*0.97 = 3.76 total ratio
3.25*1.08 = 3.51 total ratio <- PDK has a taller gear in 5th than the manual
Yes the Porsche thing posted above is, I believe, wrong. This technical spec sheet hosted on the Porsche website states that they have the same final drive (or more precisely doesn't say they are different) and is certainly more in keeping with how the cars feel:Also, the PDK is taller geared than the manual from teh numbers above - that 3.25 FDR is much taller than the 3.88 on the manual (using 5th as example):
3.88*0.97 = 3.76 total ratio
3.25*1.08 = 3.51 total ratio <- PDK has a taller gear in 5th than the manual
http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/2013/2013_Boxste...
ETA: Assuming we're still talking about the 981.1 not this new car.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 5th April 10:06
GroundEffect said:
lord trumpton said:
kambites said:
For some reason the PDK is about 10-15% lower geared than the manual. Also, the PDK is taller geared than the manual from teh numbers above - that 3.25 FDR is much taller than the 3.88 on the manual (using 5th as example):
3.88*0.97 = 3.76 total ratio
3.25*1.08 = 3.51 total ratio <- PDK has a taller gear in 5th than the manual
German reviews are surprisingly candid.
Autobild (!) describes the sound as "extremely loud and somewhere between a hotted up beetle and a tuned lawn mower".
spiegel.de reports that spirited driving results in fuel consumption north of 15L/100km (19 mpg).
Can't wait for the next Sportauto magazine.
Autobild (!) describes the sound as "extremely loud and somewhere between a hotted up beetle and a tuned lawn mower".
spiegel.de reports that spirited driving results in fuel consumption north of 15L/100km (19 mpg).
Can't wait for the next Sportauto magazine.
These numbers, ratios and statistics are meaningless. A car is either good to drive or it isn't. I'll be interested to try one of these 4-pots in due course. Anyone who's desperate for a 6 can simply nip over to the Lotus dealership.
Boxster S pricing undercuts the base 911 and Evora 400 by a country mile. £50k vs £70k. Exige S is in the zone.
Boxster S pricing undercuts the base 911 and Evora 400 by a country mile. £50k vs £70k. Exige S is in the zone.
Ozzie Osmond said:
These numbers, ratios and statistics are meaningless. A car is either good to drive or it isn't. I'll be interested to try one of these 4-pots in due course. Anyone who's desperate for a 6 can simply nip over to the Lotus dealership.
Boxster S pricing undercuts the base 911 and Evora 400 by a country mile. £50k vs £70k.Exige S is in the zone.
Exige S is 55k. Probably not quite a competitor I guess, can't imagine one as a daily.Boxster S pricing undercuts the base 911 and Evora 400 by a country mile. £50k vs £70k.Exige S is in the zone.
Edited by Ozzie Osmond on Tuesday 5th April 10:19
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff