RE: Huracan Performante clocks 6min 52sec 'ring lap

[MrBarry123]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

+1

[Dave Hedgehog]

gigglebug said:

It's a tricky one to call this. On one hand you've got someone who has produced a detailed video highlighting possible discrepancies, on the other you've got someone who has mastered the use of emojis.

post of the year

[MCBrowncoat]

Hello all,

Having watched both the solo video and the side by side comparison I have some thoughts (am no in way biased to any of the manufacturers)

Firstly, my first thought on watching the solo vid was how incredibly planted the Huracan looked, no drama, especially when watching the Aventador vid for the first time a while back, which looked brave beyond belief! Quite a lot of sawing at the wheel...

Secondly, I'm not convinced by the faster corner speed of the 918 argument. For me (I watched it once, couldn't be bothered to sit pausing and re-watching over and over, but...) it looked like the Huracan was able to get on the gas sooner, accelerating out of the corners quicker than the 918, which looked more laboured. Was that just me?

Thirdly, and I'd argue this is really difficult for anyone to discern from watching the vids given the camera angles etc, it's extremely difficult to judge the braking capability of each; Is it possible that the Huracan is able to brake later and deeper given the aero and weight advantage? If that's the case and when also applied to the second point, the length of time the Huracan is slower through a corner doesn't matter so much?

There were parts where the Huracan looked genuinely much quicker, for example the set of corners after (is this right?) The Foxhole?

The accelerating out part is intruiguing to me, wasn't that essentially how Vettel won with that rear end in the RB?

Like I say, not biased to any manufacturer, I'm genuinely interested and would like to hear an expert opinion on this

Thanks

[isaldiri]

MCBrowncoat said:

Is it possible that the Huracan is able to brake later and deeper given the aero and weight advantage? If that's the case and when also applied to the second point, the length of time the Huracan is slower through a corner doesn't matter so much?

If the Performante really had anything like the supposed aero advantage it's supposed to have, it would be braking later yes but would not need to scrub off as much speed.the minimum corner speed carried through corners would have been much greater than the 918 and it should never have been slower especially through fast corners.

[MCBrowncoat]

I had one more thought and then watched that Misha fellas vid - none of them have actual camera shots of the speedo, but a digital depiction of the speedometer in each. How convinced can you be that they're even accurate?

[Talksteer]

ALC 23 said:

MitchT said:

Mike1990 said:

Really do have to praise Lamborghini for sticking to N/A screamers. They simply sound amazing.

Indeed. How come other supercar manufacturers aren't doing the same?

Hello, I could be wrong but I believe it has to do with the corporate structure. As you know manufacturers have emission targets to meet and these can be very challenging.

A group like VW who own many brands have the advantage that the "average" emissions generated by the whole group is not overly affected by producing a few thousand V12's (Lamborghini) when the majority of their engines are 4 cylinder turbo charged units (Audi, VW Skoda etc)

Where as someone like Mclaren would find it very difficult to meet emissions targets if they didn't turbocharge/hybridise their engines.

I think the emissions targets for independent manufacturers are based on how many cars they sell and what size they are. In the case of sports car manufacturers the just have to incrementally reduce emissions.

Hence why Ferrari can still sell V12's because they are much rarer than their turbo V8's.

[anonymous-user]

You think you can visually see the difference between a 6.57 (918) and a 6.52 (HurryCan) lap?

That's an average speed of 102.51 mph verses 103.76 mph, or just 1.25 mph faster.

[Talksteer]

PurpleAki said:

jcl said:

For this Hurracan to compete with something like that it must literally be a compromised racing car.

FFS.

A few points...

As soon the pace of the car became evident and it was rumoured to be challenging for the fastest lap, the whole effort has been very heavily scutinised.

Lamborghini were filmed the whole time they were there lapping. See the numerous YouTube videos of the black and white camoflagued cars. No other cars were seen. Just those ones. Not once was a car with GT3 aero filmed. NOT ONCE. Lamborghini had no GT3 or even Blancpain cars in attendance with which to confuse people. No-one who was there while Lamborghini were there has even suggested they were running full aero cars. No rival manufacturers, no spy shot cameramen, no journalists, no YouTubers, no fellow track day attendees no 'ring staff. NO-ONE. Except idiots on the internet. There was simply too much attention on Lamborghini for it to be possible.

I saw someone comment that because the car in record lap has a cage it's obviously a race car. That's the level of knowledge some people are bringing to the table in this debate!

The car is normally aspirated. It runs about 50bhp more than the standard car. The engine may have been optimised further, I don't know. But any extra gains would be insignificant compared to the large gains forced induction cars from other manufacturers can achieve. Hundreds of extra horsepower in some cases if rumours are to be believed.

The car will be running serious rubber. That's a given but it's rubber that is freely available to everyone else on their record attempts too, so there's no trickery or advantage there. As for the suggestion of slicks, see my above comments about the aero. Lamborghini would have had to have an artic lorry full of slicks and associated paraphernalia such as heating blankets etc to run the cars for the time they were there. NO-ONE saw or even claimed that Lamborghini had slicks with them or ever ran with slicks. Not a soul.

After the VAG 'dieselgate' fiasco and lies, if journalists could catch a VAG company once again deceiving people, journalists would be all over it. Not just motoring journalists either, the main stream would be too. But there's been no suggestion of anything improper at all.

In the grand scheme of things it's all irrelevant anyway, but that's my take on it.

They could be pulling a Pagani and be running a set of cut slicks marked up as road tyres on the Topgear lap enabling them to go 2-3 second quicker.

http://jalopnik.com/pagani-admits-they-used-two-se...

[Frances The Mute]

Apparently, they were using specific Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R tyres that were designed just for this attempt.

[Yipper]

gigglebug said:

Rob_R said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Having viewed Misha's analysis, I would have to agree. The Performante's lap time appears to be bogus, which is shame.

Yipper said:

Lol.

Loads of YouTube conspiracy videos out there. The Moon landings were filmed in Nevada, and 9/11 was a false-flag op run by the Israelis

The Huracan delivered a very smooth, clean lap -- perhaps the best of all time -- with the active-aero glueing it round the corners. No fighting the steering wheel, like the other cars with less corner-grip

It's a tricky one to call this. On one hand you've got someone who has produced a detailed video highlighting possible discrepancies, on the other you've got someone who has mastered the use of emojis.

Just looked at the part-time amateur blog of that well-known forensic detective, Misha.

There is definitely a man on the grassy knoll.

[foxsasha]

This sheds some light:

https://youtu.be/9kq3fJmQLok

[MCBrowncoat]

foxsasha said:

This sheds some light:

https://youtu.be/9kq3fJmQLok

Beige velour seating option *tick*

[Rob_R]

Yipper said:

Lol.

Loads of YouTube conspiracy videos out there. The Moon landings were filmed in Nevada, and 9/11 was a false-flag op run by the Israelis

The Huracan delivered a very smooth, clean lap -- perhaps the best of all time -- with the active-aero glueing it round the corners. No fighting the steering wheel, like the other cars with less corner-grip

I agree, there are plenty of conspiracy theory videos on youtube. That doesn't, however, mean that this is one of them.

Do you not find it slightly weird that the standard Huracan set a NS time of 7:28 and the Performante sets a time of 6:52 with the basic differences between the two being a 100kg weight reduction and some aero?

[MCBrowncoat]

Rob_R said:

Yipper said:

Lol.

Loads of YouTube conspiracy videos out there. The Moon landings were filmed in Nevada, and 9/11 was a false-flag op run by the Israelis

The Huracan delivered a very smooth, clean lap -- perhaps the best of all time -- with the active-aero glueing it round the corners. No fighting the steering wheel, like the other cars with less corner-grip

I agree, there are plenty of conspiracy theory videos on youtube. That doesn't, however, mean that this is one of them.

Do you not find it slightly weird that the standard Huracan set a NS time of 7:28 and the Performante sets a time of 6:52 with the basic differences between the two being a 100kg weight reduction and some aero?

I suppose it is a massive chunk of time. But then it's also weird that someone would base his whole theory on speedo numbers that even he shows are balls given that at one point they randomly jump up 40kph...doesn't that render his whole argument complete twaddle? As an analyst, and I am, that would would at once make me question the data I was analysing in the first bloomin' place....no?!

In conclusion, this is all bks.

[Juno]

PurpleAki said:

jcl said:

For this Hurracan to compete with something like that it must literally be a compromised racing car.

FFS.

A few points...

As soon the pace of the car became evident and it was rumoured to be challenging for the fastest lap, the whole effort has been very heavily scutinised.

Lamborghini were filmed the whole time they were there lapping. See the numerous YouTube videos of the black and white camoflagued cars. No other cars were seen. Just those ones. Not once was a car with GT3 aero filmed. NOT ONCE. Lamborghini had no GT3 or even Blancpain cars in attendance with which to confuse people. No-one who was there while Lamborghini were there has even suggested they were running full aero cars. No rival manufacturers, no spy shot cameramen, no journalists, no YouTubers, no fellow track day attendees no 'ring staff. NO-ONE. Except idiots on the internet. There was simply too much attention on Lamborghini for it to be possible.

I saw someone comment that because the car in record lap has a cage it's obviously a race car. That's the level of knowledge some people are bringing to the table in this debate!

The car is normally aspirated. It runs about 50bhp more than the standard car. The engine may have been optimised further, I don't know. But any extra gains would be insignificant compared to the large gains forced induction cars from other manufacturers can achieve. Hundreds of extra horsepower in some cases if rumours are to be believed.

The car will be running serious rubber. That's a given but it's rubber that is freely available to everyone else on their record attempts too, so there's no trickery or advantage there. As for the suggestion of slicks, see my above comments about the aero. Lamborghini would have had to have an artic lorry full of slicks and associated paraphernalia such as heating blankets etc to run the cars for the time they were there. NO-ONE saw or even claimed that Lamborghini had slicks with them or ever ran with slicks. Not a soul.

After the VAG 'dieselgate' fiasco and lies, if journalists could catch a VAG company once again deceiving people, journalists would be all over it. Not just motoring journalists either, the main stream would be too. But there's been no suggestion of anything improper at all.

In the grand scheme of things it's all irrelevant anyway, but that's my take on it.

Good Points +1

[gigglebug]

MCBrowncoat said:

I suppose it is a massive chunk of time. But then it's also weird that someone would base his whole theory on speedo numbers that even he shows are balls given that at one point they randomly jump up 40kph...doesn't that render his whole argument complete twaddle? As an analyst, and I am, that would would at once make me question the data I was analysing in the first bloomin' place....no?!

In conclusion, this is all bks.

But surely that was the whole point of his video and the very basis of his argument in the first place, the fact that the data shown is questionable at the very least? That was certainly what I took from it so I'm not sure how it renders anything as complete twaddle? And to be fair the data used is the data provided from the manufacturers so at least in that sense it's consistent.

Your right though it is all bks and a shame in my opinion that the car is being defined by a questionable lap time which will be largely irrelevant in the real world. Hopefully by the time there has been some reviews and some owners have had time to enjoy and report the focus will turn to how it performs in the real world and how it makes the drivers feel.

[isaldiri]

MCBrowncoat said:

I suppose it is a massive chunk of time. But then it's also weird that someone would base his whole theory on speedo numbers that even he shows are balls given that at one point they randomly jump up 40kph...doesn't that render his whole argument complete twaddle? As an analyst, and I am, that would would at once make me question the data I was analysing in the first bloomin' place....no?!

you've never ran GPS vbox type data on a car around the 'ring have you....?

[MCBrowncoat]

isaldiri said:

MCBrowncoat said:

I suppose it is a massive chunk of time. But then it's also weird that someone would base his whole theory on speedo numbers that even he shows are balls given that at one point they randomly jump up 40kph...doesn't that render his whole argument complete twaddle? As an analyst, and I am, that would would at once make me question the data I was analysing in the first bloomin' place....no?!

you've never ran GPS vbox type data on a car around the 'ring have you....?

No, expand?

[gigglebug]

Yipper said:

Just looked at the part-time amateur blog of that well-known forensic detective, Misha.

There is definitely a man on the grassy knoll.

So instead of producing a relevant counter argument with any sort of evidence to back it up you've merely made a below average attempt to belittle the person who has at least gone to the effort to do so.

Your not a politician by any chance are you Yipper? Your about as useful as one!

[Ollywood]

And I'm sure the EU is going to say yeah fine sell us V 12 for less....

The US will take them for sure with import tariffs of course...


And on the other raging discussion - Tyres?

British Beef said:

This in itself justifies the Brexit vote (assuming emmisions legislations are dictated by Brussels), Mclaren will be back on the v12 train in no time ;-)

Awesome lap, although surpsied Lamborgini have allowed their hal product (Aventador SV) to be superceded by the Huracan! Perhaps this makes way for the Aventador SSSV