Stretched Tyres - Safe?

[anonymous-user]

I do love the fact that many people are happy to spout that it's unsafe and yet not a single shred of proof has been found on the entire internets. Hell, even a story of your mate's cousin's boyfriend's chavvy son's drug dealer having a blow out on his MK3 Golf CL would do, but nothing. Yet many are happy to shout that it's unsafe, despite a few PH'ers admitting to running stretch on tyres without an issue? .

I'm not a fan of the look, in fact the whole idea of the euro/dub scene annoys me greatly, but I'm far more annoyed by this type of attitude common to PH lately.

Just another example of the snobby behaviour that is making Piston Heads a bit st.

Edited by Simps on Friday 18th September 22:39

[skylinecrazy]

Simps said:

I do love the fact that many people are happy to spout that it's unsafe and yet not a single shred of proof has been found on the entire internets. Hell, even a story of your mate's cousin's boyfriend's chavvy son's drug dealer having a blow out on his MK3 Golf CL would do, but nothing. Yet many are happy to shout that it's unsafe, despite a few PH'ers admitting to running stretch on this tyres without an issue? .

I'm not a fan of the look, in fact the whole idea of the euro/dub scene annoys me greatly, but I'm far more annoyed by this type of attitude common to PH lately.

Just another example of the snobby behaviour that is making Piston Heads a bit st.

Amen to that.

[OnTheOverrun]

Simps said:

I do love the fact that many people are happy to spout that it's unsafe and yet not a single shred of proof has been found on the entire internets. Hell, even a story of your mate's cousin's boyfriend's chavvy son's drug dealer having a blow out on his MK3 Golf CL would do, but nothing. Yet many are happy to shout that it's unsafe, despite a few PH'ers admitting to running stretch on this tyres without an issue? .

I'm not a fan of the look, in fact the whole idea of the euro/dub scene annoys me greatly, but I'm far more annoyed by this type of attitude common to PH lately.

Just another example of the snobby behaviour that is making Piston Heads a bit st.

Do you think that might be because if someone fits a wheel & tyre combination against the manufacturers recommendations and then has a blow out or ends up in a ditch they are highly unlikely to talk about it and no doubt rush about desperately to fit their proper wheels and tyres back on like they have to before they go for their MOT?

[interloper]

OnTheOverrun said:

Simps said:

I do love the fact that many people are happy to spout that it's unsafe and yet not a single shred of proof has been found on the entire internets. Hell, even a story of your mate's cousin's boyfriend's chavvy son's drug dealer having a blow out on his MK3 Golf CL would do, but nothing. Yet many are happy to shout that it's unsafe, despite a few PH'ers admitting to running stretch on this tyres without an issue? .

I'm not a fan of the look, in fact the whole idea of the euro/dub scene annoys me greatly, but I'm far more annoyed by this type of attitude common to PH lately.

Just another example of the snobby behaviour that is making Piston Heads a bit st.

Do you think that might be because if someone fits a wheel & tyre combination against the manufacturers recommendations and then has a blow out or ends up in a ditch they are highly unlikely to talk about it and no doubt rush about desperately to fit their proper wheels and tyres back on like they have to before they go for their MOT?

Indeedy! I can't believe anyone on this site is dumb enough to defend this stupid fashion mistake. Stretched headlinings, seats, limos, foreskins who cares but something that is safety critical like tyres?

Stretch tyres on a static car at a show, fine but seriously keep them off the public high way! What next stretched brake pads?

[s3fella]

Matt_N said:

s3fella said:

T89 Callan said:

There are loads of people saying it's dangerous, unsafe and invalidates your insurance.....

.....but in many years of being a petrol head and a whole load of time in teh "V-Dub" scene I have never seen or heard of any accident caused by stretched tyres or anyone who didn't get an insurance payout becuase of it.

Seems like a lot of internet posturing to me with no evidence to back up any of the accusation of danger.

The one person on here who has actually run stretched tyres and posted about it here didn't have any problems whereas everybody else is just speculating about it being unsafe.

They pull themselves off the beads far easier in the event of lower pressure, punctures poor maintenance etc. Due to pure physics, with the sidewall at that angle, and weight on the car, they pretty much come off traight away at any speed if they go flat. Its why run flats have such stiff sidewalls and rhe beads are a sod to pop on.

Stretched tyres expose parts of the tyre not designed to be exposed to be exposed, ie below the "anti kerbing strip", increasing the possibility of a puncture.

Another thing that I noticed at VW shows seems to beggar belief. BBS 2 piece wheels with the centres assembled the wrong way round, so it increases the offset to throw the wheels inboard and allow wide whels to not hit the arches. So the centre does not locate on its mounting flange, as it should, allowing the load to be spread accross the whole width of the centre, and around its circumfrance, rather directly through 16 stainless steel bolts designed to work in tension not shear only.

I asked one guy with these bdised 2 piece BBS splits, if he considered it safe, he replied he only went "steady" on them and had other wheels for MOT etc! FFS

Edited by s3fella on Thursday 17th September 09:33

I dont understand this?

How can you assemble a 2 piece BBS wheel the wrong way? The only bit that unbolts on a 2 piece is the outer lip, these are often changed to wider lips. The wheel face and barrel are one on a 2 piece split rim.

Even on a 3 piece split rim like the BBS RS, I still dont see how that can be achieved:

Well it's 3 piece then assembled with the centre on the outside then. Anyway, point it, BBS never made them like this and there is probably good reason for it!!




Similar 3piece centre assembled as it should be, in the middle.

Edited by s3fella on Friday 18th September 20:52

[anonymous-user]

OnTheOverrun said:

Simps said:

I do love the fact that many people are happy to spout that it's unsafe and yet not a single shred of proof has been found on the entire internets. Hell, even a story of your mate's cousin's boyfriend's chavvy son's drug dealer having a blow out on his MK3 Golf CL would do, but nothing. Yet many are happy to shout that it's unsafe, despite a few PH'ers admitting to running stretch on this tyres without an issue? .

I'm not a fan of the look, in fact the whole idea of the euro/dub scene annoys me greatly, but I'm far more annoyed by this type of attitude common to PH lately.

Just another example of the snobby behaviour that is making Piston Heads a bit st.

Do you think that might be because if someone fits a wheel & tyre combination against the manufacturers recommendations and then has a blow out or ends up in a ditch they are highly unlikely to talk about it and no doubt rush about desperately to fit their proper wheels and tyres back on like they have to before they go for their MOT?

Care to point me in the direction where Michelin, or Toyo, or Bridgestone, Or Goodyear, or any reputable tyre manufacture has specifically said that tyre stretching is massively unsafe and a piece of evidence to back it up? Like someone said earlier, the best you'll get from them is that they haven't tested their tyres with that sort of usage (and why should they, those who think stretched tyres are cool make up a tiny percentage of the tyre buying population). It doesn't mean it is safe or not in the grand scheme of things, it just means that from an official point of view it is untested. On the unofficial side of things it's been tried and tested many different people in various different car "scenes" over many years without so much as a blowout (that I know of). Make of that what you will.

[OnTheOverrun]

Simps said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Simps said:

I do love the fact that many people are happy to spout that it's unsafe and yet not a single shred of proof has been found on the entire internets. Hell, even a story of your mate's cousin's boyfriend's chavvy son's drug dealer having a blow out on his MK3 Golf CL would do, but nothing. Yet many are happy to shout that it's unsafe, despite a few PH'ers admitting to running stretch on this tyres without an issue? .

I'm not a fan of the look, in fact the whole idea of the euro/dub scene annoys me greatly, but I'm far more annoyed by this type of attitude common to PH lately.

Just another example of the snobby behaviour that is making Piston Heads a bit st.

Do you think that might be because if someone fits a wheel & tyre combination against the manufacturers recommendations and then has a blow out or ends up in a ditch they are highly unlikely to talk about it and no doubt rush about desperately to fit their proper wheels and tyres back on like they have to before they go for their MOT?

Care to point me in the direction where Michelin, or Toyo, or Bridgestone, Or Goodyear, or any reputable tyre manufacture has specifically said that tyre stretching is massively unsafe and a piece of evidence to back it up? Like someone said earlier, the best you'll get from them is that they haven't tested their tyres with that sort of usage (and why should they, those who think stretched tyres are cool make up a tiny percentage of the tyre buying population). It doesn't mean it is safe or not in the grand scheme of things, it just means that from an official point of view it is untested. On the unofficial side of things it's been tried and tested many different people in various different car "scenes" over many years without so much as a blowout (that I know of). Make of that what you will.

What the tyre manufacturers say:

Dunlop
"RIM WIDTH
Correct rim width ensures flex at the designed flex point in a tire sidewall for optimum tire performance.
If the rim is too wide, the flex point moves towards the rim area, causing heat buildup in the lower sidewall, which reduces tire life and could result in failure. Either too narrow or too wide of a rim can result in uneven tread/pavement contact pressure causing uneven wear and potentially reduced traction, or increased vulnerability to bead dis-lodgement. "

Toyo
"Serious personal injury or death can result from failure to select the proper tire and rim: Tire MUST match the width and diameter requirements of the rim.

Yokohama
Each Yokohama tire has a specific rim width range on which the tire can be mounted. Failure to follow rim width recommendations may result in poor tire performance or possible wheel and/or tire failure.

What the law says:

1.Regarding wheel width, they must not protrude more than 30mm beyond the wheel arches. (Council Directive 78/549/EEC)

2.Regarding the fitting of the tyre "Each tyre fitted to the vehicle shall be of a nominal size appropriate to the wheel to which it is fitted." Sec16(4 The Motor Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2001'. The fact that the fit was outside manufacturers recommendations should be very persuasive to convince a court that the tyre was not fitted in a manner suitable to qualify it as 'approved'.

3.Section 40A RTA 1988 states "A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when...the condition of the motor vehicle...or of its accessories or equipment...is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person." Evidence to support this offence would include measurements of your wheel and tyre, and statements from the manufacturer or a tyre expert, indicating the potential risk of fitting outside their recommended parameters, namely, overheating, grip loss, unpredictable performance and behaviour etc etc.

4.If your vehicle was involved in a collision, especially one involving injury, where the cause led to the loss of control of your vehicle, dangerous driving may be considered, especially strengthened by Sec 2A(2) where "A person is also to be regarded as driving dangerously for the purposes of section 1 and 2 above if it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving the vehicle in its current state would be dangerous."

Tyre manufacturers don't test their tyres in combinations outside what they are designed for, just as engine manufacturers don't try to run their engines on lucozade to see what might happen. However, I am sure you will be happy to ignore all this because you know better.

[Arthur Jackson]

OnTheOverrun said:

A load of legal and manufacturer's stuff.

Seems like a thread closer...

[gradeAfailure]

Arthur Jackson said:

OnTheOverrun said:

A load of legal and manufacturer's stuff.

Seems like a thread closer...

I'd have to agree.. I like the look of a very very slight stretch but some of the stuff seen at dub shows now is bordering on ridiculous..

[MrSpike]

s3fella said:

Matt_N said:

s3fella said:

T89 Callan said:

There are loads of people saying it's dangerous, unsafe and invalidates your insurance.....

.....but in many years of being a petrol head and a whole load of time in teh "V-Dub" scene I have never seen or heard of any accident caused by stretched tyres or anyone who didn't get an insurance payout becuase of it.

Seems like a lot of internet posturing to me with no evidence to back up any of the accusation of danger.

The one person on here who has actually run stretched tyres and posted about it here didn't have any problems whereas everybody else is just speculating about it being unsafe.

They pull themselves off the beads far easier in the event of lower pressure, punctures poor maintenance etc. Due to pure physics, with the sidewall at that angle, and weight on the car, they pretty much come off traight away at any speed if they go flat. Its why run flats have such stiff sidewalls and rhe beads are a sod to pop on.

Stretched tyres expose parts of the tyre not designed to be exposed to be exposed, ie below the "anti kerbing strip", increasing the possibility of a puncture.

Another thing that I noticed at VW shows seems to beggar belief. BBS 2 piece wheels with the centres assembled the wrong way round, so it increases the offset to throw the wheels inboard and allow wide whels to not hit the arches. So the centre does not locate on its mounting flange, as it should, allowing the load to be spread accross the whole width of the centre, and around its circumfrance, rather directly through 16 stainless steel bolts designed to work in tension not shear only.

I asked one guy with these bdised 2 piece BBS splits, if he considered it safe, he replied he only went "steady" on them and had other wheels for MOT etc! FFS

Edited by s3fella on Thursday 17th September 09:33

I dont understand this?

How can you assemble a 2 piece BBS wheel the wrong way? The only bit that unbolts on a 2 piece is the outer lip, these are often changed to wider lips. The wheel face and barrel are one on a 2 piece split rim.

Even on a 3 piece split rim like the BBS RS, I still dont see how that can be achieved:

Well it's 3 piece then assembled with the centre on the outside then. Anyway, point it, BBS never made them like this and there is probably good reason for it!!




Similar 3piece centre assembled as it should be, in the middle.

Edited by s3fella on Friday 18th September 20:52

Not to piss in your pocket and tell you it's raining, but BBS did make wheels like that with the centre bolted to the outside of the lip and basket.










ETA I think the wheels are BBS e26's

Edited by MrSpike on Saturday 19th September 10:35

[MrSpike]

Also on my M3 the rears are 9.5 inch but the tyre is 255/35/19 from the factory! Basically BMW send them out with a slight stretch! Looking on a few sites a lot of people are changing to 275 rears as that's the size suggested for that diameter of rim from tyre producers.

So where is the line drawn in this argument?

I'm tempted to try the 255 on the front as it supposed to help no end with the understeer.

Edited by MrSpike on Saturday 19th September 09:11

[rsstman]

gradeAfailure said:

Arthur Jackson said:

OnTheOverrun said:

A load of legal and manufacturer's stuff.

Seems like a thread closer...

I'd have to agree.. I like the look of a very very slight stretch but some of the stuff seen at dub shows now is bordering on ridiculous..

+3

its just a stupid looking pointless thing to do.

[gingerpaul]

Just thought I'd check in on this thread again. I'm a little disappointed by the lack of insults. Judging by the threads I linked to I was expecting to find World War 3 in here. Oh well.

[Esprit]

I've seen a few stretched tyres pop off the rims at trackdays in my time... never seen a non-stretched rim pop off the rim at trackdays. That alone is good enough to convince me that it's a baaaaad idea.

[Oilchange]

gingerpaul said:

Just thought I'd check in on this thread again. I'm a little disappointed by the lack of insults. Judging by the threads I linked to I was expecting to find World War 3 in here. Oh well.

[rsstman]

gingerpaul said:

Just thought I'd check in on this thread again. I'm a little disappointed by the lack of insults. Judging by the threads I linked to I was expecting to find World War 3 in here. Oh well.

asshole, wker, cock, prick, dick, pussy, jizwad, cumface.

sorry.

how comes only wker gets blanked out?

tosser, bellend, spunkbreath.

Edited by rsstman on Saturday 19th September 15:51

[Oilchange]

stebreak, penilescalp, analcaterpiller, dangelberries...

[Fatboy]

rsstman said:

gingerpaul said:

Just thought I'd check in on this thread again. I'm a little disappointed by the lack of insults. Judging by the threads I linked to I was expecting to find World War 3 in here. Oh well.

asshole, wker, cock, prick, dick, pussy, jizwad, cumface.

sorry.

how comes only wker gets blanked out?

tosser, bellend, spunkbreath.

Edited by rsstman on Saturday 19th September 15:51

cockgoblin, spunkweasel, assmonkey, turdburglar

[DSM2]

MrSpike said:

Also on my M3 the rears are 9.5 inch but the tyre is 255/35/19 from the factory! Basically BMW send them out with a slight stretch! Looking on a few sites a lot of people are changing to 275 rears as that's the size suggested for that diameter of rim from tyre producers.

So where is the line drawn in this argument?

I'm tempted to try the 255 on the front as it supposed to help no end with the understeer.

Edited by MrSpike on Saturday 19th September 09:11

How is a 10" tyre on a 9.5" rim a 'stretch'? That's a perfectly normal tyre fitment, as would the slighly wider 275 section be.

[gingerpaul]

Fatboy said:

rsstman said:

gingerpaul said:

Just thought I'd check in on this thread again. I'm a little disappointed by the lack of insults. Judging by the threads I linked to I was expecting to find World War 3 in here. Oh well.

asshole, wker, cock, prick, dick, pussy, jizwad, cumface.

sorry.

how comes only wker gets blanked out?

tosser, bellend, spunkbreath.

Edited by rsstman on Saturday 19th September 15:51

cockgoblin, spunkweasel, assmonkey, turdburglar

That's more like it.