RE: Lotus Evora

[kryten]

Hehe, I forgot the

The Toyota engines with Lotus engine management and exhaust sound pretty good (and have LOTUS written on the top)

Still, I'm pretty much target market and decided against one when I found that they were making the first cars with ALL options and pricing them at around £58k.

Hope it sells - have to see what things are like when proper test drives are available...

[Tuna]

Video on YouTube of one of the cars at the (very wet) test drive.

Looks like a great place to be on a wet and windy road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlVg3HPFsuo

[kambites]

Scotty996T said:

This looks like an expensive but actually quite poor compromise and will be astonsihed if it holds up against a 911. 1350kg isn't a lightweight.

It's significantly lighter than a modern 911 isn't it? Given that it's performance is apparently similar to the 911 (OK it's a little bit slower than a 997C2) and it's significantly cheaper, I can't see how you can really consider it to be poor value in comparison?

To my eye, this makes the 911 look horribly overpriced.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 12th May 18:49

[abarber]

kambites said:

Scotty996T said:

This looks like an expensive but actually quite poor compromise and will be astonsihed if it holds up against a 911. 1350kg isn't a lightweight.

It's significantly lighter than a modern 911 isn't it? Given that it's performance is apparently similar to the 911 (OK it's a little bit slower than a 997C2) and it's significantly cheaper, I can't see how you can really consider it to be poor value in comparison?

To my eye, this makes the 911 look horribly overpriced.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 12th May 18:49

Not really sure about the weight. Unladen DIN weight for a 997 is 1415Kgs. Is the 1380 Kgs quoted by Lotus DIN or EU? Add the optional rear seats / belts, might be heavier.

Suprised it's not 720kgs

[kambites]

abarber said:

Not really sure about the weight. Unladen DIN weight for a 997 is 1415Kgs. Is the 1380 Kgs quoted by Lotus DIN or EU? Add the optional rear seats / belts, might be heavier.

Suprised it's not 720kgs

I'm not sure what Lotus quote. Last time I had my car on a weigh bridge, it came in at 2kg under Lotus's stated weight with about half a tank of fuel. I don't know about the 911, but I've seen road tests put the weight of the Cayman S at over 1550kg.

[abarber]

kambites said:

abarber said:

Not really sure about the weight. Unladen DIN weight for a 997 is 1415Kgs. Is the 1380 Kgs quoted by Lotus DIN or EU? Add the optional rear seats / belts, might be heavier.

Suprised it's not 720kgs

I'm not sure what Lotus quote. Last time I had my car on a weigh bridge, it came in at 2kg under Lotus's stated weight with about half a tank of fuel. I don't know about the 911, but I've seen road tests put the weight of the Cayman S at over 1550kg.

Hmm, even the PDK 3.4s are a only a little over 1400kgs according to sport auto etc!

1550, blimey! Where was that?

[Davey S2]

num2uk said:

fbrs said:

"276bhp 3.5-litre V6 is donated from Toyota" is the most soul destroying line i've ever read...

You're forgetting about the upsides to having this engine. It's been through Toyota's testing regime so should be relatively reliable, can you guarantee that with that the Cayman's engine?

Dont just assume that because its a Toyota engine it will be bullet proof.

[dom180]

Tuna said:

Video on YouTube of one of the cars at the (very wet) test drive.

Looks like a great place to be on a wet and windy road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlVg3HPFsuo

Nice video. That engine looks like it is mounted very high up. Be interesting to see how it compares to the Cayman when they track it, rather than use the fast (straight by the looks of it) roads of Scotland.

[Mikeyboy]

I think if the performance figures are found to be true and the opinions on as its handling is consistently praised across the reviews then the arguments about the weights are surely academic and not really that relevant to the reality of the car itself.

The real issue is the cost and I've said this before and I'll say it again. If it is aimed at the 911 driver then its a good price, if its aimed at the Cayman S driver then its too much. It doesn't seem that it comes fully loaded after all and could end up a lot more than a similarly loaded Cayman S which is saying something.

For the money the difference in handling had better be marked. Judging by the autocar comparison it may be. I'll certainly give it a look in the future but not new at that money.

[HAB]

kambites said:

It's significantly lighter than a modern 911 isn't it?

997 Carrera manual is 1415kg, so the Evora is lighter yes, but not by very much.

kambites said:

To my eye, this makes the 911 look horribly overpriced.

How could you know the Evora is better VFM than a 911?

The Evora is an unproven car at a premium price from a manufacturer with a sometimes dubious reputation for build quality.

Unless they have properly sorted out the durability and build quality. I'd say it was the 911 that was better VFM, until proven otherwise.

But I do hope it does well, though it's a big gamble for Lotus imo.

[LotusACBC]

Let's be honest guys, there is no way this car is going to be better than or on par with any Porsche. I hate to say it but I am predicting horrible sales figures for this car in the U.S.It pains me to even say such a thing because I hope for the best for Lotus but...Let me put it to you this way; maybe it will sell well on your side of the pond, but trust me, its not going to go well here in the states.

[300bhp/ton]

HAB said:

kambites said:

It's significantly lighter than a modern 911 isn't it?

997 Carrera manual is 1415kg, so the Evora is lighter yes, but not by very much.

kambites said:

To my eye, this makes the 911 look horribly overpriced.

How could you know the Evora is better VFM than a 911?

The Evora is an unproven car at a premium price from a manufacturer with a sometimes dubious reputation for build quality.

Unless they have properly sorted out the durability and build quality. I'd say it was the 911 that was better VFM, until proven otherwise.

But I do hope it does well, though it's a big gamble for Lotus imo.

I think you miss the point. Value for money is not the same as over priced.

One could argue a Veyron is fantastic VFM as it's the only car to offer what it does. Doesn't mean it's not over priced though.

Same with a 911. If you don't want to spend more than £55k on a 4 seat sports GT, then a 911 is over priced.

[kambites]

abarber said:

Hmm, even the PDK 3.4s are a only a little over 1400kgs according to sport auto etc!

1550, blimey! Where was that?

I can't remember. I've a feeling it might have been autocar but I can't find the article now so presumably it wasn't. Possible it wasn't a review at all but an owner talking about the weight, it was a long time ago.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 13th May 09:05

[kambites]

LotusACBC said:

Let's be honest guys, there is no way this car is going to be better than or on par with any Porsche. I hate to say it but I am predicting horrible sales figures for this car in the U.S.It pains me to even say such a thing because I hope for the best for Lotus but...Let me put it to you this way; maybe it will sell well on your side of the pond, but trust me, its not going to go well here in the states.

In sales terms it wont get near the Porsches, however good it is. I'd expect it will drive better than anything Porsche offer but to be let down, as ever, by its build quality. It'll be interesting to see what the non-British (and non-German) car magazines say when they run group tests.

I'm not sure what kind of sales figures Lotus are aiming for, but they wont be huge.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 13th May 08:55

[Tuna]

LotusACBC said:

Let's be honest guys, there is no way this car is going to be better than or on par with any Porsche. I hate to say it but I am predicting horrible sales figures for this car in the U.S.It pains me to even say such a thing because I hope for the best for Lotus but...Let me put it to you this way; maybe it will sell well on your side of the pond, but trust me, its not going to go well here in the states.

Well, already the comparative reviews have said it's more comfortable, rides better, feels faster and is more of an experience than the Cayman. The engine is a Toyota and is unstressed in this tune, so we can expect some reliability there. It's very early days for a new production line, so it wouldn't be surprising for there to be niggles with some detailing. However, let's be clear - this is a hand built car with the future of the company riding on it - Lotus will be doing everything they can to raise the bar.

Their target sales figures are 2000 a year, less than one tenth that of the Cayman. Lotus aren't trying to 'beat' Porsche, they're trying to offer a wider range to people who like their core values. Most Porsche owners would never dream of buying a Lotus, no matter how good or cheap it might be - and that's fine.

So far, I think their biggest problem is that a lot of people don't 'get' what the Evora is. From pictures it looks like another little Elise like car. It's not. A lot of Elise owners want something faster on the track and more hardcore than their current car. It's not. A lot of people expect a car from Lotus that is so focussed on handling that the driver has to put up with an awkward and uncomfortable interior. It's not that. Most non-Lotus owners don't expect a luxury GT from them, which is exactly what it is.

The reviews and videos are beginning to put it into context and it's interesting that far, far fewer people are slagging it off now that they can get a better idea of what it is. There are increasing numbers of posts from people who're saying that they want one.

The real acid test will be in about six month's time when there are a few out on the roads, and you can walk into your dealer and book a test drive. Then we'll see how sucessful Lotus have been.

[abarber]

Well, with power / weight similar to a 2.9 Cayman, it will have it's work cut out.

I'm sure it'll drive fantastically well though and I for one can't wait for a test drive.

If I like it, I'll get one at some stage. There aren't nearly enough driver orientated options out there.

[kambites]

abarber said:

Well, with power / weight similar to a 2.9 Cayman, it will have it's work cut out.

Yet it's apparently faster than a Cayman S. I really don't understand the figures that are being banded around - OK it'll have a little more traction than the Cayman because its weight is more rear-ward biased, but I don't understand how it can make THAT much difference.

Of course it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the road-testers are simply lying.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 13th May 10:30

[300bhp/ton]

kambites said:

abarber said:

Well, with power / weight similar to a 2.9 Cayman, it will have it's work cut out.

Yet it's apparently faster than a Cayman S. I really don't understand the figures that are being banded around - OK it'll have a little more traction than the Cayman because its weight is more rear-ward biased, but I don't understand how it can make THAT much difference.

Of course it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the road-testers are simply lying.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 13th May 10:30

What are the performance numbers you refer too?

The Cayman S is no slouch. And if it's just 0 to something times, then sticky tyres on the right surface could massively reduce the times.

1/4 mile trap speed would tell you a whole lot more about it's in gear acceleration.

[kambites]

300bhp/ton said:

What are the performance numbers you refer too?

The Cayman S is no slouch. And if it's just 0 to something times, then sticky tyres on the right surface could massively reduce the times.

1/4 mile trap speed would tell you a whole lot more about it's in gear acceleration.

Wasn't going on figures at all; I was going on what road testers have said. For example from Autocar:

Autocar said:

The Lotus may not sound as throaty as you’d expect but it’s faster than the Cayman in a straight line...

And that was comparing it to the S, not the "slow" Cayman.


Having not driven the Evora, I obviously can't speak from experience.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 13th May 11:03

[GKP]

Does it matter if it's 0.xxx seconds faster or slower than Cayman? Does anybody in the real world care? Maybe if you're a pub bore, internet forum nerd sort of person then it might be important to you.
I've bought cars in the past of which there are quicker/slower, bigger/smaller, dearer/cheaper etc etc models and it hasn't bothered me.

Surely how the car performs in it's own right without resorting to race track antics, is the relevant factor?