videos of m3 getting "owned" by 335d

[J4CKO]

Agree on the speed versus character, My Saab Aero with 250 bhp moves fairly well (for me, not compared to some of the tackle on here) but is devoid of any character, our Fiat 500 does character but not speed, something with the speed of the Saab and the character of the Fiat, hmmm.

Still miss my MK2 8 Valve Golf GTI's, like a small faithful terrier.

[rsstman]

Cpn Jack Spanner said:

Obviously people who buy M3's are just posers, impressed by a little badge and some marketing. Real racers, and anyone else in a hurry, should buy a fast car like a 335D.

such a funny post i had to reapeat it.

"real racers should buy a 335d"

just soo good.

[snorkel sucker]

Mr Gear said:

snorkel sucker said:

[

chances are, these guys in love with their 0-60 times would, strapped into the seat of a go kart with those of us who actually prefer driving dynamics, get mullered when the stakes are even and corners are involved

And likewise, someone who had only dealt with go karts and no gears would struggle to launch a car on a dragstrip.

I've done both (not claiming I have mastered either, but I have a good appreciation of what is required) and they both require skill.

indeed - i wasnt sauggesting that launching a car was easy - far from it in fact! my point was more so that the majority (not all) of people interested solely in straight line pace (and i mean those saying "my car is faster than yours" type persona) would not cut the mustard on a real road or circuit.

I know people who are straight line speed obsessed and, show them a decent b-road and they fade repidly into the distance

[ShadownINja]

Tom74 said:

RobM77 said:

I can't access You Tube at work, but so far as I can work out the video is of a remapped 335d beating a standard E46 M3 cabriolet that got a bad start That's like saying I could "own" Usain Bolt over 100m if he'd just eaten a large curry, had two pints of beer and was wearing wellies

Now that sounds more fun than a diesel BMW any day of the week!

Can I be driving the E46 M3 just to ensure my win?

[zakelwe]

J4CKO said:

Agree on the speed versus character, My Saab Aero with 250 bhp moves fairly well (for me, not compared to some of the tackle on here) but is devoid of any character,

I drove one of these for a few days and apart from that it goes failry quickly there is nothing else to recommend it, the gearbox is a craptronic mess, it handles like a pudding and there it not even any turbo lag and then bang to enliven things up. The onyl slightly amusing thing was turning the tyres to blue smoke where you shouldn't.

Regards
Andy

[ShadownINja]

Leicesterdave said:

190E Matt said:

What I find amusing is when I hear or read "BMW diesels sound quite nice/alright" etc

No they bloody don't.

Makes me smile too. The Auto express team currently have the TT TDI on their fleet. "The common rail diesel is very muted, very un diesel like"
My arse- stood next to one yesterday, it still sounded like a bag of spanners and so wrong in a TT...

In a way, I'm envious of anyone who likes the sound. If dragging a spanner down a washboard is music to their ears, then they can really enjoy the torque and fuel savings. Being deaf has its benefits, I guess.

The notion of a diesel soft top sounds barmy, too. Why do you want even more diesel racket?

[Munkeyfeet]

i cant believe this topic is still going - i actually cant believe it got any comments such is the rediculous nature of it all.

Again I own an RS4 and a chipped/remapped 335d (the new M3 is better than the RS4) and trust me the 335d isnt close. sorry.

It is however an amazing diesel engine given the power, mpg and the fact it is less diesel sounding than most....

[J4CKO]

zakelwe said:

J4CKO said:

Agree on the speed versus character, My Saab Aero with 250 bhp moves fairly well (for me, not compared to some of the tackle on here) but is devoid of any character,

I drove one of these for a few days and apart from that it goes failry quickly there is nothing else to recommend it, the gearbox is a craptronic mess, it handles like a pudding and there it not even any turbo lag and then bang to enliven things up. The onyl slightly amusing thing was turning the tyres to blue smoke where you shouldn't.

Regards
Andy

I find it corners really rather well, far from being a pudding, however its not much fun whilst it goes about it, its the later model, I had the earlier Cavalier based one and that was, er, ponderous, this grips quite well despite the remap putting all that power through the front wheels, the old one, despite only being an LPT, in the wet if you were so inclined you could spin the fronts up to 80 mph, that said, despite its shortcomings it had more character than the new one and was unreasonably fast in a straight line for 150 bhp, I bought the new Aero with 210 bhp and it only felt about the same as the old one.

Not getting another Saab, they have lost their Mojo, and is now just a chintzy middle class Vectra.

[camickr]

Cyclone1 said:

Another poster comes on posting about how he's been in a remapped 335d that managed to outrun a Porsche Carrera 997, which by experience is not inconceivable.

Both posters are relatively new to PH so may not be aware of all of the "335d" BS threads

Yes I was not trying to start an argument this was just what we saw when we tested the cars against each other! We tested lots of cars because it was a car meetup. I do not even own a 335d and I know it is not the fastest car ever. We tested against an M5 and soon the M5 was so far ahead in the distance we could not even see him.

[Pints]

thinfourth2 said:

Anyone who measures the worth or enjoyment a car with a stopwatch has no idea why cars are fun.

Amen!

I say "Testify!"

It doesn't take much skill to drive quickly in a straight line. How you handle the corners is what separates the men from the boys.

[RobM77]

Pints said:

thinfourth2 said:

Anyone who measures the worth or enjoyment a car with a stopwatch has no idea why cars are fun.

Amen!

I say "Testify!"

It doesn't take much skill to drive quickly in a straight line. How you handle the corners is what separates the men from the boys.

Or more to the point that's where the interest is. Even in racing, when you're flat out, straights are where you check your gauges and think about things. Corners are the interesting bit

Nevertheless, it's academically interesting to see how fast cars are in a straight line.

[Pints]

RobM77 said:

Nevertheless, it's academically interesting to see how fast cars are in a straight line.

Also known as "bragging rights" down at your local.

[Mr Gear]

Either this is an amusing coincidence, or someone at Santa Pod has been reading this thread...

This BMW drag racing event added a diesel race class yesterday: http://www.bmwshow.co.uk/

So we'll find out pretty soon if the M3s get "owned" or do the "owning"!

[RobCrezz]

pbirkett said:

RobM77 said:

RobCrezz said:

RobM77 said:

RobCrezz said:

350GT said:

Yes, but the M3 isn't.

Exactly. Is harder to get a good launch in a manual car, although that doesnt mean you cant get a good launch.

It's also harder to launch a petrol car than a diesel, because in a petrol car you rely on some wheelspin or clutch slip to deliver power to the road at peak torque (3k+). A diesel has peak torque much lower, so is not only easier, but the consequences of messing up the start and bogging down are less cause you're straight onto peak torque rather than waiting to hit it.

Exactly!

And to prove the point, if you watch the videos the main reason the 335d wins each time is that it gets a perfect start every time, whereas the other drivers fluff it. The 335d just seems easier to launch (see my post above for the reasons).

Obviously never tried to launch a Fabia vRS then. Anything but easy to get a good getaway without furious wheelspin. Most diesels are rubbish off the line. The main reason the 335d wont be is the HUGE amount of grip and RWD.

In fairness, noone cares about a fabia vRS or launching it

I bet the vrs could be launched well, it would just take some very good clutch control to keep the torque coming and stop the wheel spin, but the clutch wouldnt last long. But when I mean launch well, I mean for a 130bhp hatch.

[300bhp/ton]

350GT said:

But it doesn't matter. The problem with drag racing is that it is all so dependent on the driver, and slightest issue ruins the run. I'd rather look at lap times, etc.

But how are lap times not based on the driver ability??

Just take a look at the Star in a reasonably priced car on Top Gear. Even in a slow car there's an 10-15 sec difference from the top to the bottom of the time board.

If it was a faster car then the gap would be even bigger.

Besides, lap times are as dependant on suspension setup and tyres more so than outright engine output.

Lastly, on the roads a semi "drag race" is far more the norm between drivers/owners than a full out WTC setting.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 27th August 15:17

[300bhp/ton]

RobCrezz said:

pbirkett said:

RobM77 said:

RobCrezz said:

RobM77 said:

RobCrezz said:

350GT said:

Yes, but the M3 isn't.

Exactly. Is harder to get a good launch in a manual car, although that doesnt mean you cant get a good launch.

It's also harder to launch a petrol car than a diesel, because in a petrol car you rely on some wheelspin or clutch slip to deliver power to the road at peak torque (3k+). A diesel has peak torque much lower, so is not only easier, but the consequences of messing up the start and bogging down are less cause you're straight onto peak torque rather than waiting to hit it.

Exactly!

And to prove the point, if you watch the videos the main reason the 335d wins each time is that it gets a perfect start every time, whereas the other drivers fluff it. The 335d just seems easier to launch (see my post above for the reasons).

Obviously never tried to launch a Fabia vRS then. Anything but easy to get a good getaway without furious wheelspin. Most diesels are rubbish off the line. The main reason the 335d wont be is the HUGE amount of grip and RWD.

In fairness, noone cares about a fabia vRS or launching it

I bet the vrs could be launched well, it would just take some very good clutch control to keep the torque coming and stop the wheel spin, but the clutch wouldnt last long. But when I mean launch well, I mean for a 130bhp hatch.

But in the real world doesn't this mean that the 335d (mapped) is truly quicker than an E46 M3?

As in ou can be very quick most of the time without the need to stage, prep, think about it and then either bog, wheel spin too much or melt the clutch.

It's the same with VTEC and turbo petrol AWD cars, sure they are quick when you get it right, but even being given time to stage and prepare for a launch many people fluff up more than they get right.

Where as auto n/a or supercharged V8's and turbo diesels get a good launch most of the time.

[6655321]

300bhp/ton said:

350GT said:

But it doesn't matter. The problem with drag racing is that it is all so dependent on the driver, and slightest issue ruins the run. I'd rather look at lap times, etc.

But how are lap times not based on the driver ability??

Just take a look at the Start in a reasonably priced car on Top Gear. Even in a slow car there's an 10-15 sec difference from the top to the bottom of the time board.

If it was a faster car then the gap would be even bigger.

Besides, lap times are as dependant on suspension setup and tyres more so than outright engine output.

Lastly, on the roads a semi "drag race" is far more the norm between drivers/owners than a full out WTC setting.

You misunderstand. Drag racing has a far higher relience on the driver in order to get a good time. It;s a straight race to the end, so a missed gear, or too much wheelspin will really mess up a 13-15 second 'race'. Miss a gear ona circuit, and yes, you will lose time, but it won't have anywhere near the massive effect.

Put it this way, a goofed gear change may cost a second in a drag race, which is about 8% of the total race time. That 1 second on a circuit lap is a much smaller percentage.

[300bhp/ton]

6655321 said:

300bhp/ton said:

350GT said:

But it doesn't matter. The problem with drag racing is that it is all so dependent on the driver, and slightest issue ruins the run. I'd rather look at lap times, etc.

But how are lap times not based on the driver ability??

Just take a look at the Start in a reasonably priced car on Top Gear. Even in a slow car there's an 10-15 sec difference from the top to the bottom of the time board.

If it was a faster car then the gap would be even bigger.

Besides, lap times are as dependant on suspension setup and tyres more so than outright engine output.

Lastly, on the roads a semi "drag race" is far more the norm between drivers/owners than a full out WTC setting.

You misunderstand. Drag racing has a far higher relience on the driver in order to get a good time. It;s a straight race to the end, so a missed gear, or too much wheelspin will really mess up a 13-15 second 'race'. Miss a gear ona circuit, and yes, you will lose time, but it won't have anywhere near the massive effect.

Put it this way, a goofed gear change may cost a second in a drag race, which is about 8% of the total race time. That 1 second on a circuit lap is a much smaller percentage.

Good point, I didn't think of it like that.

However, again doesn't this reinforce that how easy a cars it to drive/launch/shift has a huge bearing in the real world on what makes a fast car?

I've not driven an e46 M3 do I don't know. But if it takes a lot of skill and effort to get it to perform at say even 80% of its ability, where another car (say 335d) is perhaps very easy to attain 90% of its ability and be the quicker when driven to these levels?

Hope this makes sense.

As I'm not dissing the M3 at all, its a fab car, but so is the 335d, even more so when in reality it more of a competitor to a 330i or 335i yet somehow manages to offer M3 rivalling performance.

[RobM77]

pbirkett said:

RobM77 said:

RobCrezz said:

RobM77 said:

RobCrezz said:

350GT said:

Yes, but the M3 isn't.

Exactly. Is harder to get a good launch in a manual car, although that doesnt mean you cant get a good launch.

It's also harder to launch a petrol car than a diesel, because in a petrol car you rely on some wheelspin or clutch slip to deliver power to the road at peak torque (3k+). A diesel has peak torque much lower, so is not only easier, but the consequences of messing up the start and bogging down are less cause you're straight onto peak torque rather than waiting to hit it.

Exactly!

And to prove the point, if you watch the videos the main reason the 335d wins each time is that it gets a perfect start every time, whereas the other drivers fluff it. The 335d just seems easier to launch (see my post above for the reasons).

Obviously never tried to launch a Fabia vRS then. Anything but easy to get a good getaway without furious wheelspin. Most diesels are rubbish off the line. The main reason the 335d wont be is the HUGE amount of grip and RWD.

I have driven a Fabia actually. The reason they're hard to get off the line is because they're FWD. As you point out, the BMW is RWD.

[10 Pence Short]

300bhp/ton said:

However, again doesn't this reinforce that how easy a cars it to drive/launch/shift has a huge bearing in the real world on what makes a fast car?

What is this 'real world' you keep going on about?

I live in a world where some people prefer one thing, and others prefer another. Neither are wrong and both, I assume, live in the 'real world'.