DVLA vs Liquid Knight
Discussion
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
If anyone does come round, politely invite them in for a cup of tea
Seriously, that is really bad advice. Do not, ever, invite a bailiff or debt collector into your home, whether they have grounds for entry or not."Come in and have a cup of tea while the misses is at the cash point; I'll give her a call to let her know you're early" then 999.
Liquid Knight said:
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
If anyone does come round, politely invite them in for a cup of tea
Seriously, that is really bad advice. Do not, ever, invite a bailiff or debt collector into your home, whether they have grounds for entry or not."Come in and have a cup of tea while the misses is at the cash point; I'll give her a call to let her know you're early" then 999.
tenohfive said:
Liquid Knight said:
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
If anyone does come round, politely invite them in for a cup of tea
Seriously, that is really bad advice. Do not, ever, invite a bailiff or debt collector into your home, whether they have grounds for entry or not."Come in and have a cup of tea while the misses is at the cash point; I'll give her a call to let her know you're early" then 999.
Liquid Knight said:
tenohfive said:
Liquid Knight said:
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
If anyone does come round, politely invite them in for a cup of tea
Seriously, that is really bad advice. Do not, ever, invite a bailiff or debt collector into your home, whether they have grounds for entry or not."Come in and have a cup of tea while the misses is at the cash point; I'll give her a call to let her know you're early" then 999.
The simple rule is don't let them in, at the end of the day your argument is not with the bailiff, the police aren't going to want to get involved, all you are doing is complicating the situation.
V8s ONLY said:
I'd be very careful about calling the Police,they are more than likely to side with the debt collectors and the DVLA.Do not expect help from the Police you will not get it.
Depends how confident you are in standing your ground.1. A debt collection agency who continues to chase a disputed debt is guilty of harassment, under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997, S1, which is a criminal offence carrying a sentence of up to 6 months imprisonment. That potentially increases to 5 years if there's fear of violence involved - big f-off debt collectors turning up on your doorstep and trying to gain entry might qualify for this but not if you invite them in for tea!
2. It doesn't matter in the slightest what DVLA say, as long as you continue to deny that you owe this "penalty" it is still a disputed debt until they take you to court and a judge says you owe it.
3. The police should respond to harassment complaints but they quite often won't. That said, by reporting it you at least have it on record that you're being harassed if it needs to be taken further.
The bottom line is, if you did everyting you should have (ie: sent the forms off) then trying to frighten / coerce / force you into paying without a court order is against the law. Note that "everything you should have done" does NOT include contacting DVLA because they didn't send an acknowledgement because DVLA have no power whatsoever to make the law up as they go along, and the law does NOT require you to do so!
Edited by Variomatic on Thursday 25th November 22:23
Variomatic said:
V8s ONLY said:
I'd be very careful about calling the Police,they are more than likely to side with the debt collectors and the DVLA.Do not expect help from the Police you will not get it.
Depends how confident you are in standing your ground.1. A debt collection agency who continues to chase a disputed debt is guilty of harassment, which is a criminal offence carrying a sentence of up to 6 months imprisonment (potentially 5 years if there's fear of violence involved - big f-off debt collectors turning up on your doorstep and trying to gain entry might qualify for this but not if you invite them in for tea!)
2. It doesn't matter in the slightest what DVLA say, as long as you continue to deny that you owe this "penalty" it is still a disputed debt until they take you to court and a judge says you owe it.
3. The police should respond to harassment complaints but they quite often won't. That said, by reporting it you at least have it on record that you're being harassed if it needs to be taken further.
The bottom line is, if you did everyting you should have (ie: sent the forms off) then trying to frighten / coerce / force you into paying without a court order is against the law. Note that "everything you should have done" does NOT include contacting DVLA because they didn't send an acknowledgement because DVLA have no power whatsoever to make the law up as they go along, and the law does NOT require you to do so!
I have on several occasions from different sources heard that the DVLA cannot afford to attend court cases unless the values are above £1000. Both cases in this example were when the DVLA was at fault. I'd take them to court, they are well known for this behaviour by most judges in small claims court and as such are often thrown out.
ncow82 said:
I have on several occasions from different sources heard that the DVLA cannot afford to attend court cases unless the values are above £1000. Both cases in this example were when the DVLA was at fault. I'd take them to court, they are well known for this behaviour by most judges in small claims court and as such are often thrown out.
I've gone one better than that. 
Will let you guys know when the results are in.
Liquid Knight said:
I've gone one better than that.
Will let you guys know when the results are in.
Looking forward to the final score - the more cases that go against them the more people will learn not to put up with incompetent beaurocrats bullying them outside what the law actually allows Will let you guys know when the results are in.
Variomatic said:
Liquid Knight said:
I've gone one better than that.
Will let you guys know when the results are in.
Looking forward to the final score - the more cases that go against them the more people will learn not to put up with incompetent beaurocrats bullying them outside what the law actually allows Will let you guys know when the results are in.
Edited by Liquid Knight on Tuesday 30th November 18:02
I wrote to the Minister of transport and it was redirected to the DVLA head office. They wrote to me basically saying they have the right to charge what they like and will be happy to pursue me through the courts. I wrote back forally requesting a date to appear before a Crown court (two months ago) and I'm now waiting to hear from them.
Since then I have recieved a SORN reminder for a bike I sold ten years ago! FFS!
Since then I have recieved a SORN reminder for a bike I sold ten years ago! FFS!
In the same boat as well since they decided I owe them £80 for not taxing a car I sold 18 months ago. Sent a letter explaining I am not responsible and they have no legal right to demand money off me - still haven't had a reply after about a month. Wouldn't surprise me if they lost it 
I do keep getting nice letters from a debt collector demanding immediate payment. Replied saying they can't demand money without a court order but they just keep on coming. Still, they are nice enough to supply an addressed envelope with each letter so they are getting some nice cheque sized junk mail to read (minus stamp of course)
I do keep getting nice letters from a debt collector demanding immediate payment. Replied saying they can't demand money without a court order but they just keep on coming. Still, they are nice enough to supply an addressed envelope with each letter so they are getting some nice cheque sized junk mail to read (minus stamp of course)
Negative Creep said:
Sadly in my case they will win. I don't have the legal knowledge or funds to go to court so I'm basically delaying it for as long as possible to afford the fine
No need for them to win, so stop being Negative (y'see what I did there? :P )There's a thread that gives the history of my argument over an identical case here:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...
The thread was started by someone else but I hijacked it on 28th Dec '08. It includes sample letters that (despite the various disclaimers I put) are legally sound and, more to the point, worked with both the DVLA and Moorcroft Collections (their debt collectors ofchoice at the time).
Although they've never formally told me that they've dropped the matter, I've heard nothing since their reassurance that they were "forwarding the case for prosecution". That was on 14th January 2009, so I guess they decided not to
Just copy and paste the letters and change details (names, car reg etc) as appropriate and see what happens (or not, as the case may be)
I currently have an outstanding case similar to this - I sold my Range Rover on eBay last October and a guy from Amsterdam was the winning bidder. Fair enough, the car had run out of tax on 30/09, but the guy was more than willing to take the risk and drive it back to Holland (which he somehow did without getting caught :S). However, because I'd only bought the car in September, I hadn't received the V5, which came in the post an hour after the guy drove off into the sunset. So I filled out what I had to fill out and sent it to him so he could fill it out and send it back, which he did.
Skip to January, I get a letter telling me I'm about to be fined £1000 for not taxing this car. Feeling peeved, I e-mailed the guy and he said he'd talk to them. Week later, I get a letter saying "Thank you for updating your information, we will no longer trouble you". The week after *that*, I get a final warning letter, telling me to pay £1000 or face prosecution. Just over a week ago, yet another lands telling me that the DVLA are taking me to court due to failure of payment. My plan is to turn up, stand in the witness box, hold the update letter in one hand and flip the V with the other. In my opinion, the DVLA needs a seeerious rehaul in its processes and updates - cases such as these are costing them and the Govt. much needed coin, which could be put to much better use.............such as a new set of wheels for myself
Skip to January, I get a letter telling me I'm about to be fined £1000 for not taxing this car. Feeling peeved, I e-mailed the guy and he said he'd talk to them. Week later, I get a letter saying "Thank you for updating your information, we will no longer trouble you". The week after *that*, I get a final warning letter, telling me to pay £1000 or face prosecution. Just over a week ago, yet another lands telling me that the DVLA are taking me to court due to failure of payment. My plan is to turn up, stand in the witness box, hold the update letter in one hand and flip the V with the other. In my opinion, the DVLA needs a seeerious rehaul in its processes and updates - cases such as these are costing them and the Govt. much needed coin, which could be put to much better use.............such as a new set of wheels for myself
Variomatic said:
Negative Creep said:
Sadly in my case they will win. I don't have the legal knowledge or funds to go to court so I'm basically delaying it for as long as possible to afford the fine
No need for them to win, so stop being Negative (y'see what I did there? :P )There's a thread that gives the history of my argument over an identical case here:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...
The thread was started by someone else but I hijacked it on 28th Dec '08. It includes sample letters that (despite the various disclaimers I put) are legally sound and, more to the point, worked with both the DVLA and Moorcroft Collections (their debt collectors ofchoice at the time).
Although they've never formally told me that they've dropped the matter, I've heard nothing since their reassurance that they were "forwarding the case for prosecution". That was on 14th January 2009, so I guess they decided not to
Just copy and paste the letters and change details (names, car reg etc) as appropriate and see what happens (or not, as the case may be)
Making demands without court instruction to do so is not an offence by itself but once you have notified them they are acting unlawfully they have to stop or risk criminal harasment. That's how I got rid of "Philips Bailiffs and Collection Services".
I also may well have accidently given their website details to a "friend" who write and developes computer viruses.
The part about the DVLA no longer being a public service but a profiting organisation is also very usefull because DVLA inc' does not have the authority to make demands DVLA public service once had. Thanks to a "Freedom of Information" request made by someone else is a similar situation the DVLA admitted to making £22,000,000 Tax free profit in 2007-2008 and held that profit in an account instead of handing it to the treasury.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/dvla_profits
As the DVLA can be lagally described as a profit lead organisation or business then the fact you have pre-paid for their services when you pay your road fund licence they can not demand further payments for the same service. So we don't have to pay them for their mistakes.
That is my last resort if I'm ever invited to court. I'll have a few other "friends" who work for channel four in the press pit as well.
I also may well have accidently given their website details to a "friend" who write and developes computer viruses.
The part about the DVLA no longer being a public service but a profiting organisation is also very usefull because DVLA inc' does not have the authority to make demands DVLA public service once had. Thanks to a "Freedom of Information" request made by someone else is a similar situation the DVLA admitted to making £22,000,000 Tax free profit in 2007-2008 and held that profit in an account instead of handing it to the treasury.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/dvla_profits
As the DVLA can be lagally described as a profit lead organisation or business then the fact you have pre-paid for their services when you pay your road fund licence they can not demand further payments for the same service. So we don't have to pay them for their mistakes.
That is my last resort if I'm ever invited to court. I'll have a few other "friends" who work for channel four in the press pit as well.
Well good luck as I think they way that they have treated you and myself for that matter is utterly wrong.
I am still getting grief from the DVLA about £80 (as it is now) for a car I sold over a year back as they did not have proof I had sold it.
Even though I got the chap to sign it, I and he signed the forms (photocopied), we both signed a sheet as proof of purchase including the date and also the eBay auction listing as well was given to then to show that I had complete the forms but because THEY had not received or lost the form it is somehow all MY fault.
bds, the lot of them.
And now we get this form with the DVLA saying that it now must be SORN or insured or else.
I wonder how many people are going to get caught in this trap?
Governments. They really HATE the motorist except for the handy fuel costs dont they?
I am still getting grief from the DVLA about £80 (as it is now) for a car I sold over a year back as they did not have proof I had sold it.
Even though I got the chap to sign it, I and he signed the forms (photocopied), we both signed a sheet as proof of purchase including the date and also the eBay auction listing as well was given to then to show that I had complete the forms but because THEY had not received or lost the form it is somehow all MY fault.
b
ds, the lot of them.And now we get this form with the DVLA saying that it now must be SORN or insured or else.
I wonder how many people are going to get caught in this trap?
Governments. They really HATE the motorist except for the handy fuel costs dont they?
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff