RE: Tech Details: New Morgan Threewheeler
Discussion
Martin Keene said:
Konrod said:
Of course, if you want a 4 wheeled Morgan look and feel and don't want to spend a fortune i.e. about £7k, build one of these 
- mine had a flat twin, could have fitted a Guzzi and wire wheels (and did fit a much smaller front number plate). Great fun with goggles and flying helmet
Woah, what is that? - mine had a flat twin, could have fitted a Guzzi and wire wheels (and did fit a much smaller front number plate). Great fun with goggles and flying helmet
link to more details please
eta Pembleton Brooklands
Edited by DullBoy on Thursday 4th November 23:11
I'm really puzzled by all the comments about Grinalls, Pembletons etc because its not a like for like comparison. Equally, I wonder if the posters who talk about jap engines in a three wheeler have ever seriously considered issues such as 'packaging', torque curves, power delivery etc.
The bottom line ( and I speak as a 4 wheel Morgan owner) is that the car really doesn't measure up to what is the cutting edge model here, which is the Triking
My feeling is ( and it gives me no pleasure to say it) is that MMC really haven't thought this one out at all well.
A simple example: Morgan are going ( so we understand) to use the HARLEY 'lump' OK, in " Screamin' Eagle" spec that engine can produce cedible BHP but that will take both a hell of a lot of cash and the assumption ( not proved) that the necessary mods can be accommodated within the space available in the three wheeler
So, MMC, good luck but don't hold your breath
G
The bottom line ( and I speak as a 4 wheel Morgan owner) is that the car really doesn't measure up to what is the cutting edge model here, which is the Triking
My feeling is ( and it gives me no pleasure to say it) is that MMC really haven't thought this one out at all well.
A simple example: Morgan are going ( so we understand) to use the HARLEY 'lump' OK, in " Screamin' Eagle" spec that engine can produce cedible BHP but that will take both a hell of a lot of cash and the assumption ( not proved) that the necessary mods can be accommodated within the space available in the three wheeler
So, MMC, good luck but don't hold your breath
G
Well i think this new Morgan threewheeler will look very close to the Ace Cycle Car, which is buildt under license from Morgan 3-Wheelers Ltd in the USA.
More information:
http://cycle-car.com/
More information:
http://cycle-car.com/
Edited by Bigblock427 on Friday 5th November 00:06
Edited by Bigblock427 on Friday 5th November 00:26
Bigblock427 said:
Well i think this new Morgan threewheeler will look very close to the Ace Cycle Car, which is built under license from Morgan 3-Wheelers Ltd in the USA.
More information:
http://cycle-car.com/
sweet - http://cycle-car.com/specifications.htmMore information:
http://cycle-car.com/
GLLHG said:
I'm really puzzled by all the comments about Grinalls, Pembletons etc because its not a like for like comparison. Equally, I wonder if the posters who talk about jap engines in a three wheeler have ever seriously considered issues such as 'packaging', torque curves, power delivery etc.
The bottom line ( and I speak as a 4 wheel Morgan owner) is that the car really doesn't measure up to what is the cutting edge model here, which is the Triking
My feeling is ( and it gives me no pleasure to say it) is that MMC really haven't thought this one out at all well.
A simple example: Morgan are going ( so we understand) to use the HARLEY 'lump' OK, in " Screamin' Eagle" spec that engine can produce cedible BHP but that will take both a hell of a lot of cash and the assumption ( not proved) that the necessary mods can be accommodated within the space available in the three wheeler
So, MMC, good luck but don't hold your breath
G
Hi GThe bottom line ( and I speak as a 4 wheel Morgan owner) is that the car really doesn't measure up to what is the cutting edge model here, which is the Triking
My feeling is ( and it gives me no pleasure to say it) is that MMC really haven't thought this one out at all well.
A simple example: Morgan are going ( so we understand) to use the HARLEY 'lump' OK, in " Screamin' Eagle" spec that engine can produce cedible BHP but that will take both a hell of a lot of cash and the assumption ( not proved) that the necessary mods can be accommodated within the space available in the three wheeler
So, MMC, good luck but don't hold your breath
G
Whilst I know you visited Triking recently, IMHO Triking 'the cutting edge model'?? Bike gearbox (does it have reverse?) and GRP would immediately preclude my participation. I have owned a BEC before and I'm well aware of the weakness of gearboxes that have to transfer significantly more load than designed.
I would be genuinely interested to hear why you think the Triking is 'cutting edge' whilst the Morgan isn't.
And as for "the assumption ( not proved)....." regarding fitting the mods in: May I ask how you know this? It's certainly not what I'm led to believe and the proof in the pudding being the physical Ace trike that I've actually seen and is produced at the moment?
Cheers for now
B
Hi Boshers,
As you say, I am very much a Triking fan- most of all because the standard of engineering in them is excellent( eg quality of brakes, attention to detail qwhen the chassis is put together etc.
Perhaps the best example is the front end which Alan has completely reworked since the early days of Tony's cars.
The Triking does have a reverse- it uses the 'Nova' box which, as you will probably recall, has been looked at by several of the journals and really does seem to uphold its claim that it allows the car to go as swiftly in reverse as in forward. (Not tried it myself though!)
Overall, I'm pleased that MMC have ( re) introduced a three wheeler and there are aspects of it- such as the bodywork- which I think will work really well. Other aspects eg the Harley engine, I'm not so sure although I can quite see that if they are looking for a US sales market then going for a HD lump does make sense.
regards,
G
PS to anyone thinking of visiting the Triking 'factory'- ignore your Satnav- it'll take you through a cabbage field!
As you say, I am very much a Triking fan- most of all because the standard of engineering in them is excellent( eg quality of brakes, attention to detail qwhen the chassis is put together etc.
Perhaps the best example is the front end which Alan has completely reworked since the early days of Tony's cars.
The Triking does have a reverse- it uses the 'Nova' box which, as you will probably recall, has been looked at by several of the journals and really does seem to uphold its claim that it allows the car to go as swiftly in reverse as in forward. (Not tried it myself though!)
Overall, I'm pleased that MMC have ( re) introduced a three wheeler and there are aspects of it- such as the bodywork- which I think will work really well. Other aspects eg the Harley engine, I'm not so sure although I can quite see that if they are looking for a US sales market then going for a HD lump does make sense.
regards,
G
PS to anyone thinking of visiting the Triking 'factory'- ignore your Satnav- it'll take you through a cabbage field!
I recall that the deposit is £5k and the books are filling up fast already.
Morgan is a premium brand, the more they charge the more they will probably sell. I get the odd comment or three in my kit car when out and about, but until spending some time in a +4 and an aero 8 I had no idea just how much attention they attract. If that is your kind of thing of course. Every petrol station someone stops and asks about the Aero 8, every red traffic light there are people looking/staring at it, people even wind down their windows to ask about it.
It's the kind of car that rich people say "I like that, get me one." price is not a consideration. Not excluding those who save for them as their dream of course.
PS, to those who have no idea, JAP was a british company (J.A.Prestwich), it's not short for Japanese!
Morgan is a premium brand, the more they charge the more they will probably sell. I get the odd comment or three in my kit car when out and about, but until spending some time in a +4 and an aero 8 I had no idea just how much attention they attract. If that is your kind of thing of course. Every petrol station someone stops and asks about the Aero 8, every red traffic light there are people looking/staring at it, people even wind down their windows to ask about it.
It's the kind of car that rich people say "I like that, get me one." price is not a consideration. Not excluding those who save for them as their dream of course.
PS, to those who have no idea, JAP was a british company (J.A.Prestwich), it's not short for Japanese!
GLLHG said:
Hi Boshers,
As you say, I am very much a Triking fan- most of all because the standard of engineering in them is excellent( eg quality of brakes, attention to detail qwhen the chassis is put together etc.
Perhaps the best example is the front end which Alan has completely reworked since the early days of Tony's cars.
The Triking does have a reverse- it uses the 'Nova' box which, as you will probably recall, has been looked at by several of the journals and really does seem to uphold its claim that it allows the car to go as swiftly in reverse as in forward. (Not tried it myself though!).....
And a cynic? as you yourself suggested elsewhere As you say, I am very much a Triking fan- most of all because the standard of engineering in them is excellent( eg quality of brakes, attention to detail qwhen the chassis is put together etc.
Perhaps the best example is the front end which Alan has completely reworked since the early days of Tony's cars.
The Triking does have a reverse- it uses the 'Nova' box which, as you will probably recall, has been looked at by several of the journals and really does seem to uphold its claim that it allows the car to go as swiftly in reverse as in forward. (Not tried it myself though!).....
I am not sure if my Westfield (MegaBird) had a Nova transfer box (effectively that is why you get to 'go' as swiftly in reverse as forward) but this adds another weak point and still relies on a motorbike gearbox (and clutch??) with significantly increased weight.
The Morgan, incorporates a Mazda MX5 gearbox, which is completely understressed in comparison. Not necessarily a huge issue but important to note.
You comment positively on the Morgan body (we will see more of the aluminium superformed body in a couple of weeks maybe?) but I still stress that this will be a significant improvement on a GRP one ala Triking (I am assuming they are still GRP?).
Lastly, whilst I accept your comments and opinion on how well engineered the Triking brakes/chassis detail is surely you can only compare the two once you have also inspected the Morgan
(oh the irony 
) 
Cheers
B
t!
GLLHG said:
Hi Boshers,
As you say, I am very much a Triking fan- most of all because the standard of engineering in them is excellent( eg quality of brakes, attention to detail qwhen the chassis is put together etc.
Perhaps the best example is the front end which Alan has completely reworked since the early days of Tony's cars.
The Triking does have a reverse- it uses the 'Nova' box which, as you will probably recall, has been looked at by several of the journals and really does seem to uphold its claim that it allows the car to go as swiftly in reverse as in forward. (Not tried it myself though!)
Overall, I'm pleased that MMC have ( re) introduced a three wheeler and there are aspects of it- such as the bodywork- which I think will work really well. Other aspects eg the Harley engine, I'm not so sure although I can quite see that if they are looking for a US sales market then going for a HD lump does make sense.
regards,
G
PS to anyone thinking of visiting the Triking 'factory'- ignore your Satnav- it'll take you through a cabbage field!
I am an enthusiast of the Triking, Spent a good 4 or 5 hours with Tony Divey and test drove one that had for sale. Personally I have no issue with GRP versus Superform - they are both produced from moulds after all. But I think the engineering qualities of the Triking are over-stated. it's a fine vehicle, as well engineered as many kit cars, but a browse of the Triking forum will show that it has a number of design and reliability issues. Is the Nova a BEC gear box?. Tony looked into BEC gearboxes but would not fit them, because he did not trust their reliability.As you say, I am very much a Triking fan- most of all because the standard of engineering in them is excellent( eg quality of brakes, attention to detail qwhen the chassis is put together etc.
Perhaps the best example is the front end which Alan has completely reworked since the early days of Tony's cars.
The Triking does have a reverse- it uses the 'Nova' box which, as you will probably recall, has been looked at by several of the journals and really does seem to uphold its claim that it allows the car to go as swiftly in reverse as in forward. (Not tried it myself though!)
Overall, I'm pleased that MMC have ( re) introduced a three wheeler and there are aspects of it- such as the bodywork- which I think will work really well. Other aspects eg the Harley engine, I'm not so sure although I can quite see that if they are looking for a US sales market then going for a HD lump does make sense.
regards,
G
PS to anyone thinking of visiting the Triking 'factory'- ignore your Satnav- it'll take you through a cabbage field!
Can't really see the H-D v Guzzi argument either. When tuned they are both 90-100 bhp V-twin thumpers. (Tony was concerned as to how to reliably rotate H-D 90 degrees but ACE have fixed that I believe).
Not too sure why the MMC car will come out at 500kg though, I would have thought 400kg would have been a reasonable target. I also hope that it is about the same size as the originals and has not been oversized for our more corpulent times.
RegMolehusband said:
But I think the 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds is a bit optimistic. A 135bhp Caterham weighing a little more than that will do it in about 6 seconds. My previous Superlight R weighing slightly less than 500kg and modified to 230BHP would do it in just under 4 seconds.
So I think 0-60 is more likely to be 6 seconds - or more!
Anyway, well done to Morgan and good luck to them. I hope they sell many.
Edited to add, looking at the width of the tyres I don't think they'll get the traction to do such a quick 0-60 time.
My 104 BHP 590kg Fury will do it in a little over 5.5 & it's over-geared, how can you tell how wide the driven wheel is?So I think 0-60 is more likely to be 6 seconds - or more!
Anyway, well done to Morgan and good luck to them. I hope they sell many.
Edited to add, looking at the width of the tyres I don't think they'll get the traction to do such a quick 0-60 time.
Edited by RegMolehusband on Thursday 4th November 10:54
jerseyman said:
GLLHG said:
Hi Boshers,
As you say, I am very much a Triking fan- most of all because the standard of engineering in them is excellent( eg quality of brakes, attention to detail qwhen the chassis is put together etc.
Perhaps the best example is the front end which Alan has completely reworked since the early days of Tony's cars.
The Triking does have a reverse- it uses the 'Nova' box which, as you will probably recall, has been looked at by several of the journals and really does seem to uphold its claim that it allows the car to go as swiftly in reverse as in forward. (Not tried it myself though!)
Overall, I'm pleased that MMC have ( re) introduced a three wheeler and there are aspects of it- such as the bodywork- which I think will work really well. Other aspects eg the Harley engine, I'm not so sure although I can quite see that if they are looking for a US sales market then going for a HD lump does make sense.
regards,
G
PS to anyone thinking of visiting the Triking 'factory'- ignore your Satnav- it'll take you through a cabbage field!
I am an enthusiast of the Triking, Spent a good 4 or 5 hours with Tony Divey and test drove one that had for sale. Personally I have no issue with GRP versus Superform - they are both produced from moulds after all. But I think the engineering qualities of the Triking are over-stated. it's a fine vehicle, as well engineered as many kit cars, but a browse of the Triking forum will show that it has a number of design and reliability issues. Is the Nova a BEC gear box?. Tony looked into BEC gearboxes but would not fit them, because he did not trust their reliability.As you say, I am very much a Triking fan- most of all because the standard of engineering in them is excellent( eg quality of brakes, attention to detail qwhen the chassis is put together etc.
Perhaps the best example is the front end which Alan has completely reworked since the early days of Tony's cars.
The Triking does have a reverse- it uses the 'Nova' box which, as you will probably recall, has been looked at by several of the journals and really does seem to uphold its claim that it allows the car to go as swiftly in reverse as in forward. (Not tried it myself though!)
Overall, I'm pleased that MMC have ( re) introduced a three wheeler and there are aspects of it- such as the bodywork- which I think will work really well. Other aspects eg the Harley engine, I'm not so sure although I can quite see that if they are looking for a US sales market then going for a HD lump does make sense.
regards,
G
PS to anyone thinking of visiting the Triking 'factory'- ignore your Satnav- it'll take you through a cabbage field!
Can't really see the H-D v Guzzi argument either. When tuned they are both 90-100 bhp V-twin thumpers. (Tony was concerned as to how to reliably rotate H-D 90 degrees but ACE have fixed that I believe).
Not too sure why the MMC car will come out at 500kg though, I would have thought 400kg would have been a reasonable target. I also hope that it is about the same size as the originals and has not been oversized for our more corpulent times.
So far as we could tell, the choice of a Guzzi ( usually the California engine) over a HD was and is based on availability of Guzzi engines together with their gearboxes at the right price ( either new, recon or donor supplied) and the torque curve of that engine
As Boshly pointed out, it's a bit unfair to compare without an equally close look at the MMC offering- and that's something I'm looking forward to doing asap
Cheers
G
GLLHG said:
As Boshly pointed out, it's a bit unfair to compare without an equally close look at the MMC offering- and that's something I'm looking forward to doing asap
Cheers
G
Like you G, I'm a long time Triking fan, but I'll order a Morgan 3-wheeler as I like the heritage and the fact that they did not go for sliding-pillar front suspension.Cheers
G
I look forward to seeing your respective 3-wheeler critique in due course.
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