Getting test drives at dealers
Discussion
Splats said:
Ask yourself what is the point of a dealer network? Servicing aside, which could be facilitated in a number of other ways, the point of a dealership is to present and demonstrate the product to customers.
Were dealerships owned and run by manufacturers purely for brand exposure (such as Mercedes Benz World at Brooklands) I would agree however they are not, they are private businesses whose aim is to sell cars, pure and simple. Those serious in buying a car should of course be accommodated and of course get a test drive, however, as this thread has highlighted once again (as it does every time this subject comes up on PH, usually once or twice a year) there are still plenty of time wasters who are happy to take up a dealers resources (time, fuel, demonstrators, staff, etc) without any goal other than killing a bit of time and driving someone else's car. As long as people like that are out there there will be dealer staff who wrongly categorise genuine buyers as timewasters.
Remember in a main dealer as a salesman you are very heavily targeted and ratios of people seen / demos given / deals closed are analysed very carefully, not only that but you are commission based, giving joyrides to people who are not in the market does not pay the bills and reduces your closing ratio (similarly company car drivers selecting their next centrally acquired company car) so the pressure is on to get down to the customers who will deal, will earn you commission and will keep your ratios high and you in a job.
The fact that they are not owned and run by the manufacturer is irrelevant IMHO.
Manufacturers sell to independent dealers because without dealers it would be far harder to sell cars (for reasons I mentioned in my previous post).
Make no bones about it, if any manufacturer realised it could sell the exact same number of cars directly to customers without using the dealer networks then they would simply cut them out.
IMHO everyone needs to know their function and some dealers seem to have it in their head that their function is to have an untouched example of a car sit there until someone decides they want to buy it, walks in, pays the money, takes it for a drive just to be sure it isn't buggered, and then leaves with it.
That is not the function of a dealership. For crying out loud, you could achieve that by putting some pictures of the car on the internet and processing all transactions electronically and remotely. No need for expensive premises, lighting, heating, rates, etc. The purpose of a dealership is to allow customers to view the product in the flesh, interact with the product (drive it, sit in it to make sure it's big enough, play with the buttons, etc), and to ask a suitably knowledgeable member of staff questions about the product.
For example, I want to perhaps purchase a VXR8 as my next car. I've never seen one or been in one. I know how much they cost, I know it has either a 6.0 LS2 or 6.2 LS3 V8. I know it is RWD with a 6 speed gearbox. I know that it has a mechanical limited slip diff, I know it has 5 seats and weighs 1830kg, I know it has a large boot, air conditioning and that despite the large screen in the dash, many do not have sat nav. I know that it has an aux input in the front of the dash, that they are not undersealed from the factory and that the door mirrors are not heated. I know pretty much everything there is to know about the car, but I'm still not sure if I want to buy it. The reason for this is because I don't know what it feels like to sit in one, to press the buttons, move the indicator stalks, start it up, listen to it, try the rear out for size, look at the boot for size, view it from different angles, drive it, accelerate it, steer it, brake it, drift it
These are the things that are very important to the purchase decision and they are also the very things that no amount of reading or youtube can tell you. This is why we have dealers....
Manufacturers sell to independent dealers because without dealers it would be far harder to sell cars (for reasons I mentioned in my previous post).
Make no bones about it, if any manufacturer realised it could sell the exact same number of cars directly to customers without using the dealer networks then they would simply cut them out.
IMHO everyone needs to know their function and some dealers seem to have it in their head that their function is to have an untouched example of a car sit there until someone decides they want to buy it, walks in, pays the money, takes it for a drive just to be sure it isn't buggered, and then leaves with it.
That is not the function of a dealership. For crying out loud, you could achieve that by putting some pictures of the car on the internet and processing all transactions electronically and remotely. No need for expensive premises, lighting, heating, rates, etc. The purpose of a dealership is to allow customers to view the product in the flesh, interact with the product (drive it, sit in it to make sure it's big enough, play with the buttons, etc), and to ask a suitably knowledgeable member of staff questions about the product.
For example, I want to perhaps purchase a VXR8 as my next car. I've never seen one or been in one. I know how much they cost, I know it has either a 6.0 LS2 or 6.2 LS3 V8. I know it is RWD with a 6 speed gearbox. I know that it has a mechanical limited slip diff, I know it has 5 seats and weighs 1830kg, I know it has a large boot, air conditioning and that despite the large screen in the dash, many do not have sat nav. I know that it has an aux input in the front of the dash, that they are not undersealed from the factory and that the door mirrors are not heated. I know pretty much everything there is to know about the car, but I'm still not sure if I want to buy it. The reason for this is because I don't know what it feels like to sit in one, to press the buttons, move the indicator stalks, start it up, listen to it, try the rear out for size, look at the boot for size, view it from different angles, drive it, accelerate it, steer it, brake it, drift it
These are the things that are very important to the purchase decision and they are also the very things that no amount of reading or youtube can tell you. This is why we have dealers....Splats said:
The fact that they are not owned and run by the manufacturer is irrelevant IMHO.
Manufacturers sell to independent dealers because without dealers it would be far harder to sell cars (for reasons I mentioned in my previous post).
Make no bones about it, if any manufacturer realised it could sell the exact same number of cars directly to customers without using the dealer networks then they would simply cut them out.
IMHO everyone needs to know their function and some dealers seem to have it in their head that their function is to have an untouched example of a car sit there until someone decides they want to buy it, walks in, pays the money, takes it for a drive just to be sure it isn't buggered, and then leaves with it.
That is not the function of a dealership. For crying out loud, you could achieve that by putting some pictures of the car on the internet and processing all transactions electronically and remotely. No need for expensive premises, lighting, heating, rates, etc. The purpose of a dealership is to allow customers to view the product in the flesh, interact with the product (drive it, sit in it to make sure it's big enough, play with the buttons, etc), and to ask a suitably knowledgeable member of staff questions about the product.
For example, I want to perhaps purchase a VXR8 as my next car. I've never seen one or been in one. I know how much they cost, I know it has either a 6.0 LS2 or 6.2 LS3 V8. I know it is RWD with a 6 speed gearbox. I know that it has a mechanical limited slip diff, I know it has 5 seats and weighs 1830kg, I know it has a large boot, air conditioning and that despite the large screen in the dash, many do not have sat nav. I know that it has an aux input in the front of the dash, that they are not undersealed from the factory and that the door mirrors are not heated. I know pretty much everything there is to know about the car, but I'm still not sure if I want to buy it. The reason for this is because I don't know what it feels like to sit in one, to press the buttons, move the indicator stalks, start it up, listen to it, try the rear out for size, look at the boot for size, view it from different angles, drive it, accelerate it, steer it, brake it, drift it These are the things that are very important to the purchase decision and they are also the very things that no amount of reading or youtube can tell you. This is why we have dealers....
Indeed. Dealers are there to facilitate the purchase of a car, not to provide joy rides.Manufacturers sell to independent dealers because without dealers it would be far harder to sell cars (for reasons I mentioned in my previous post).
Make no bones about it, if any manufacturer realised it could sell the exact same number of cars directly to customers without using the dealer networks then they would simply cut them out.
IMHO everyone needs to know their function and some dealers seem to have it in their head that their function is to have an untouched example of a car sit there until someone decides they want to buy it, walks in, pays the money, takes it for a drive just to be sure it isn't buggered, and then leaves with it.
That is not the function of a dealership. For crying out loud, you could achieve that by putting some pictures of the car on the internet and processing all transactions electronically and remotely. No need for expensive premises, lighting, heating, rates, etc. The purpose of a dealership is to allow customers to view the product in the flesh, interact with the product (drive it, sit in it to make sure it's big enough, play with the buttons, etc), and to ask a suitably knowledgeable member of staff questions about the product.
For example, I want to perhaps purchase a VXR8 as my next car. I've never seen one or been in one. I know how much they cost, I know it has either a 6.0 LS2 or 6.2 LS3 V8. I know it is RWD with a 6 speed gearbox. I know that it has a mechanical limited slip diff, I know it has 5 seats and weighs 1830kg, I know it has a large boot, air conditioning and that despite the large screen in the dash, many do not have sat nav. I know that it has an aux input in the front of the dash, that they are not undersealed from the factory and that the door mirrors are not heated. I know pretty much everything there is to know about the car, but I'm still not sure if I want to buy it. The reason for this is because I don't know what it feels like to sit in one, to press the buttons, move the indicator stalks, start it up, listen to it, try the rear out for size, look at the boot for size, view it from different angles, drive it, accelerate it, steer it, brake it, drift it
These are the things that are very important to the purchase decision and they are also the very things that no amount of reading or youtube can tell you. This is why we have dealers....Adam205 said:
Just thought of the only time I've ever had an issue, and that was the one of the only times I was actually interested in buying a 500. Saw one one on the fiat website, rang the dealer, arranged a test drive, drove down to guildford.... no sign of the car. We waited for about half an hour to see a salesman then:
'Sorry the manager has taken it home, you can test drive this *completely different spec 500* and leave a deposit if you want?'
I thought my dad was going to punch the guy. He wouldn't even admit that a mistake was made and managed to somehow imply that we had turned up at the wrong time. Cue lecture on customer service with a response that implied 'we cant get enough 500s to sell so we're not losing out'.
Compare that to the Fiat dealership in Reading where we were forcibly detained in the showroom until we agreed to take one for a test drive... no wonder they're the dealership that had none left to sell!
I've had this once as well. Spent two hours getting to the dealer and then he says 'the car isn't actually here'. I think they deserve to have their time wasted just as much as they waste ours.'Sorry the manager has taken it home, you can test drive this *completely different spec 500* and leave a deposit if you want?'
I thought my dad was going to punch the guy. He wouldn't even admit that a mistake was made and managed to somehow imply that we had turned up at the wrong time. Cue lecture on customer service with a response that implied 'we cant get enough 500s to sell so we're not losing out'.
Compare that to the Fiat dealership in Reading where we were forcibly detained in the showroom until we agreed to take one for a test drive... no wonder they're the dealership that had none left to sell!
Chris_w666 said:
plenty said:
As a consumer, I would love for there to be a different marketing/distribution model whereby showrooms existed for me to look at, sit in and drive the cars with no obligation to buy. An environment where people can experience the cars without sales pressure would in turn create benefits for manufacturers in terms of stronger brand advocacy and the potential to expand their long-term customer base once freed from the need to clinch a deal there and then.
What you are talking about there is essentially a motor show, lots of cars lined up with people ready to take your details if you are interested and for you to paw over to your hearts content. They prove very expensive to run events. Not sure how workable this would be for dealers to run their own and indeed for the much larger used market.
Porsche Centre at Silverstone?
VW Centre at Wolfsburg?
I'm sure there's others. There are admitedly not loads, but there are some.
"Indeed. Dealers are there to facilitate the purchase of a car, not to provide joy rides."
I agree with that, they are not simply for people to get random shots of vehicles in. But, by the same token, I don't think you need to be 100% ready to buy that exact car at that exact time. As I said in my first post in this subject I took a number of test drives when I was younger when I was nowhere near read to buy the car I was driving. However, in nearly every occasion I eventually did buy that car and serviced it at the dealership in question.
For example, right now I couldn't/wouldn't buy a 535d. I've never driven one and would quite like to - I suppose if I was so inclined I might make arrangements to drive one today. You might think I'm a d*ck for doing so, but I'd say there is about a 60-70% chance I'll buy and own a 535d at some point in the next 5 years. I'd say there is a 95%+ chance I'll buy a BMW. In either case, whichever garage scratches my back today can count on my future business.
Food for thought for the sales people reading thing thread...
I agree with that, they are not simply for people to get random shots of vehicles in. But, by the same token, I don't think you need to be 100% ready to buy that exact car at that exact time. As I said in my first post in this subject I took a number of test drives when I was younger when I was nowhere near read to buy the car I was driving. However, in nearly every occasion I eventually did buy that car and serviced it at the dealership in question.
For example, right now I couldn't/wouldn't buy a 535d. I've never driven one and would quite like to - I suppose if I was so inclined I might make arrangements to drive one today. You might think I'm a d*ck for doing so, but I'd say there is about a 60-70% chance I'll buy and own a 535d at some point in the next 5 years. I'd say there is a 95%+ chance I'll buy a BMW. In either case, whichever garage scratches my back today can count on my future business.
Food for thought for the sales people reading thing thread...
Edited by Splats on Friday 7th January 14:17
Deva Link said:
Splats said:
I'd say there is a 95%+ chance I'll buy a BMW. In either case, whichever garage scratches my back today can count on my future business.
Food for thought for the sales people reading thing thread...
The average BMW salesperson stays in his or her job for 3 years.Food for thought for the sales people reading thing thread...
Personally I wouldn't want a test drive unless there was a decent chance of me buying the car, there's not much point otherwise.
However, if I was blowing proper £20k+ money on a car I'd want a proper 24 hour test. I'd want a proper drive on a motorway, I'd want to park it on the street, I'd like to go grab some shopping in it. New cars especially are a decent investment and I don't think you can really make the decision on 5 minutes around the block.
When Dad was buying new cars when I was a boy he'd always get one for 24 hours + as a tester before ordering. Doesn't seem to happen so much now
CampDavid said:
When Dad was buying new cars when I was a boy he'd always get one for 24 hours + as a tester before ordering. Doesn't seem to happen so much now
Sadly I suspect when you were a lad and your dad was buying cars customers were a little more honourable and only borrowed them when they were looking to buy one and then respected the car as it belonged to someone else.You only have to look on here when the free Renault long term demos were on offer, people filling the cars with garden waste to go to the tip, people ragging them on massive road trips, folk attempting to break the land speed record in a megane diesel etc. If you were a dealer would you honestly want to lend your property out for 24 hours at a time to just anyone? If you've got a good relationship with a dealer then these facilities are still available, as always it is the small minority of people who spoil things for others.
Splats said:
So what is your point? That sales people should only concern themselves with the short term? Doesn't seem look a good business strategy to me.
You'd never make a manager in any of the modern businesses I work in... (this says more about those businesses than about you!).C
Deva Link said:
Splats said:
I'd say there is a 95%+ chance I'll buy a BMW. In either case, whichever garage scratches my back today can count on my future business.
Food for thought for the sales people reading thing thread...
The average BMW salesperson stays in his or her job for 3 years.Food for thought for the sales people reading thing thread...
M
Adam205 said:
Just thought of the only time I've ever had an issue, and that was the one of the only times I was actually interested in buying a 500. Saw one one on the fiat website, rang the dealer, arranged a test drive, drove down to guildford.... no sign of the car. We waited for about half an hour to see a salesman then:
'Sorry the manager has taken it home, you can test drive this *completely different spec 500* and leave a deposit if you want?'
I thought my dad was going to punch the guy. He wouldn't even admit that a mistake was made and managed to somehow imply that we had turned up at the wrong time. Cue lecture on customer service with a response that implied 'we cant get enough 500s to sell so we're not losing out'.
Compare that to the Fiat dealership in Reading where we were forcibly detained in the showroom until we agreed to take one for a test drive... no wonder they're the dealership that had none left to sell!
We had some classics when looking as my girlfriend was buying a 500.'Sorry the manager has taken it home, you can test drive this *completely different spec 500* and leave a deposit if you want?'
I thought my dad was going to punch the guy. He wouldn't even admit that a mistake was made and managed to somehow imply that we had turned up at the wrong time. Cue lecture on customer service with a response that implied 'we cant get enough 500s to sell so we're not losing out'.
Compare that to the Fiat dealership in Reading where we were forcibly detained in the showroom until we agreed to take one for a test drive... no wonder they're the dealership that had none left to sell!
Went into the dealers, explained were looking for a small hatch, considering the 500, Fiesta and Swift, most were more than helpful.
Suzuki dealer told us to come back when their car was in the top 2 and we could test drive one then. Less than helpful, so we never went back.
Ford were good, went out in a couple of Fiestas with the different sized engines trying them out, prebooked these and was no trouble.
Tried a few different FIAT dealers and had a mix of responses.
Best one just let us borrow the cars unaccompanied and drive the 1.2 and 1.4 back to back to compare, took a few trips to them with Q's bought from them as it was no hassle, patronisation or hard sell!
Worst dealer was phoning one to ask if they had a car in a specific colour as we wanted to look at it in the metal before deciding, " yes we do etc etc" drive 30 minutes to find that they don't. "Oh but now you are here you can order it anyway". Just walked out, unbelievably bad!
Don't get me wrong...sell, sell, sell in the short term. I mean, if you can get a punter to walk away with something they didn't want and can't afford, then great. However, to be rude and discourteous simply because you don't think you'll make a sale today seems to be shooting yourself in the foot.
After all, how many people in this thread - and many others - have recounted tales of poor service only to vow never to return to that dealership again. If I had a sales based business I'd want my staff to bend over backwards for customers so that when their friends and family ask for a recommendation of where to go, it's my business that they talk about. We operate on such tiny edges in business and finance these days that you need all the help you can get. Who knows, perhaps being nice to a guy when he cheekily asks for a test drive at age 22 means that he'll take his daughter to your dealership some 20 odd years later when she is looking for her first car.
IMHO America has a far better grip on the whole customer service thing.
After all, how many people in this thread - and many others - have recounted tales of poor service only to vow never to return to that dealership again. If I had a sales based business I'd want my staff to bend over backwards for customers so that when their friends and family ask for a recommendation of where to go, it's my business that they talk about. We operate on such tiny edges in business and finance these days that you need all the help you can get. Who knows, perhaps being nice to a guy when he cheekily asks for a test drive at age 22 means that he'll take his daughter to your dealership some 20 odd years later when she is looking for her first car.
IMHO America has a far better grip on the whole customer service thing.
markmullen said:
CampDavid said:
When Dad was buying new cars when I was a boy he'd always get one for 24 hours + as a tester before ordering. Doesn't seem to happen so much now
Sadly I suspect when you were a lad and your dad was buying cars customers were a little more honourable and only borrowed them when they were looking to buy one and then respected the car as it belonged to someone else.You only have to look on here when the free Renault long term demos were on offer, people filling the cars with garden waste to go to the tip, people ragging them on massive road trips, folk attempting to break the land speed record in a megane diesel etc. If you were a dealer would you honestly want to lend your property out for 24 hours at a time to just anyone? If you've got a good relationship with a dealer then these facilities are still available, as always it is the small minority of people who spoil things for others.
Splats - You're right, there's no reason for dealers to offend people. This especially applies to dealer groups, one major dealer offered incredibly poor service on a car my Dad had 10 years ago. He now avoids that group as a whole, not out of spite but why give them a second chance? It's not like people don't have a massive choice of where to get their car serviced, I can think of 3 Audi dealers within half hour of me, the same for BMW and all major brands.
You do, with any business, need to avoid wasting your time with people though. Getting rid of FTWs (F**king Time Wasters) was hard enough when I worked in retail PC sales, as a dealer it must be impossible. Taking up an hour or two of someone's time is all money down the drain and dealers just can't afford it
You do, with any business, need to avoid wasting your time with people though. Getting rid of FTWs (F**king Time Wasters) was hard enough when I worked in retail PC sales, as a dealer it must be impossible. Taking up an hour or two of someone's time is all money down the drain and dealers just can't afford it
Ash333 said:
markmullen said:
CampDavid said:
When Dad was buying new cars when I was a boy he'd always get one for 24 hours + as a tester before ordering. Doesn't seem to happen so much now
Sadly I suspect when you were a lad and your dad was buying cars customers were a little more honourable and only borrowed them when they were looking to buy one and then respected the car as it belonged to someone else.You only have to look on here when the free Renault long term demos were on offer, people filling the cars with garden waste to go to the tip, people ragging them on massive road trips, folk attempting to break the land speed record in a megane diesel etc. If you were a dealer would you honestly want to lend your property out for 24 hours at a time to just anyone? If you've got a good relationship with a dealer then these facilities are still available, as always it is the small minority of people who spoil things for others.
BMW portsmouth gave me a 5 and a 3 series for a day each respectively (I was supposed to have the 3er for 3 days, but snow interrupted play).
Merc (portsmouth) wanted to give me a C-class but I didn't want two testdrives on the go at the same time.
C
There are plenty of dealers who will do longer demos, they just don't make a big thing of advertising it and most will only offer it to customers they know and have a relationship with. Many manufacturers fleet departments can arrange long term demos and have a suitable fleet, it is always worth getting your fleet manager to have a word if a company car.
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