RE: No more cars from TVR, says Smolensky
Discussion
900T-R said:
300bhp/ton said:
I'm quite surprised nobody has actually done this. Ok Marcos had a stab at it, but there's enough small scale kit car builders about, that I'm staggered no one has seriously tried to step into the market TVR vacated.
Because in all honesty, it's a doomed exercise without the history, the Youtube movies, the Tuscan Challenge, Tiff Needell and Jeremy Clarkson sliding cars around an airfield accompanied by the most glorious soundtrack, the Cerbera destroying allcomers in a drag race on prime time TV, the huge amount of column inches spent on dissecting TVR's latest, ever more outrageous product, the annual Le Mans pilgrimage et cetera. The media footprint of the brand has always been disproportionally huge, at least since the Peter Wheeler era came into its own.If you can't make it work on the back of all this, how much of a chance has JBS (Joe Bloggs Sportscars) to succeed?
There was no YouTube then and sliding cars about on Top Gear was pretty much a no no.
In truth I'm saddened, my favourite TVR and indeed one of my favourite cars of all time is the TVR Cerbera. But despite my love and affection for it, I think it was the start of the end for TVR. When they stuck at what they did best they bloomed, but going bonkers and continually trying to top each and every model and going it alone with their own engines resulted in their demise as far as I can see. They simply priced themselves out of their own market.
I agree the Tuscan Challenge was quite an attraction, although that again was something that came later.
But I still don't understand why nobody else makes an attempt at building a modern TVR but in the old way.
Keep it simple keep it fun and price it so people can buy it.
I don't know how much profit Ginetta make on the G40, but isn't it priced at £29k, surely a V8 powered one wouldn't cost huge amounts more to build.
Zumbruk said:
TEKNOPUG said:
The issue is really how he managed to kill the business in the first place
It was already dying when he bought it. Wheeler stitched him up like a kipper.Frik said:
You've got to admire Wheeler though. He sold up at a point where TVR weren't selling any cars; their fortunes died with the economy and the next guy gets all the blame.
I think you're right. Having said that, there was another buyer who were in the process of doing Due Diligence on TVR with a view to buying, and Smolenski pretty much walked in with a load of cash and said "I buy this! Simples!"I suspect that Due Diligence may have caused them to walk away in horror though, so maybe Wheeler did stitch Smolenski up. Or maybe Smolenski only has himself to blame. Either way, I agree that TVR was a shadow of its former self when Wheeler sold and he sold at just the right time.
julian64 said:
I just think smelly misunderstood the whole nature of TVR.
Indeed, though I'd add that Bob's time has largely passed, as public expectations have evolved and the competition has improved. Before he bought them TVR seemed to me to be a company searching for their next good idea. Nothing seemed to have quite the zing of the Griffith and Chimera.For all the posters suggesting that it's easy to run a company like that, go on then! Someone said they'd do it if they won a couple of million on the lottery. If you spread that investment over the sales of a couple of hundred cars in your first year, you've instantly added 10K to the price before you add in labour, material costs and so on. And of course, a couple of million would hardly touch the sides these days - Smolensky reportedly put 15 million into TVR.
TVR had few assets other than their workforce, which could be reproduced if you tried - so there's nothing to stop a car enthusiast from starting up an equivalent company. The fact that on the whole no-one is doing so, and established small car companies are going to the wall suggests that whilst Smolensky might have been naive, the failure of TVR was pretty much unavoidable.
300bhp] said:
I noticed when looking up the 4/4's price that Morgan will also sell you a Plus 8, essentially the same car but with a BMW V8 in it, but it's about £74,000. Ok I have no idea how much BMW charge for the engine, which could be a lot. But there must be greater margin and not just greater cost. The figures just don't add up otherwise.
The new plus 8 is based on the bonded alluminium Aero chassis not the 'classic' as they call it. So you could look at it as a cut price supersport, rather than an expensive +4Edited for clarity
Edited by Vocal Minority on Wednesday 11th July 10:21
Edited by Vocal Minority on Thursday 12th July 08:18
The Hypno-Toad said:
I'm not his biggest fan either but Saab didn't really blow up in his face. He came, he bought it, he played with it for a bit, pumped all of Spykers massive debts into it, it went bust, he walked away with Spyker debt free to start again. Which was probably what he planned in the first place.
However, I would not put it past him to bid for the TVR name as unlike a load of Saab/SWAN creditors, he now has a bit of spare cash.
(Unless of course, the Lativan police can link him to his ex-partners bank fraud....)
Fair enough, but him abusing Saab doesnt make it better in my eyes. As for Spyker, they hardly ever sell a car, i'd hate for TVR to end up as another one of his fronts for money embezzeling like SpykerHowever, I would not put it past him to bid for the TVR name as unlike a load of Saab/SWAN creditors, he now has a bit of spare cash.
(Unless of course, the Lativan police can link him to his ex-partners bank fraud....)
The new Plus 8 is basically an Aero reworked with a 'retro' body. The chassis is totally different to a 4/4's.
ugg10 said:
Lots:
Finally, what happened to the Melling Wildcat, basically a Griffith with either a properly sorted AJP8 or an LS lump sold by the guy who designed the Cerbera engine? Looked a winner but seems to have died a death.
When I interviewed Lawrence for Sprint he said he had absolutely no interest in acquiring TVR for numerous reasons not least the now 6 yearbreak in production and unrealistic expectations for what the cars could be sold at.Finally, what happened to the Melling Wildcat, basically a Griffith with either a properly sorted AJP8 or an LS lump sold by the guy who designed the Cerbera engine? Looked a winner but seems to have died a death.
As with all of Melling's personal projects the Wildcat came to nothing, they built two cars I think and he went to Portugal to try and extract money from the local government there. I had a ride in that car and it was nothing more than a prototype needing a lot of development work.
V8 GRF said:
Denorth said:
V8 GRF said:
Podie said:
Is it Smolensky or Smolenski?
Smolenski
For Russian surname in this case it must be 'ky' (it should probably be 'kij', but it would be too much?) If he had surname 'Смоленски' it would be 'ki' in English variant.
Again, sorry for being anal and off-topic.
Main thing is - however you write his surname, it must be pronounced 'ARSE'
Tuna said:
Indeed, though I'd add that Bob's time has largely passed, as public expectations have evolved and the competition has improved.
I guess that depends what market you are chasing. TVR's where kit cars originally and a Chim/Griff was just a factory built kit car. This is the market place TVR thrived in, the niche UK market. Sadly road tax and fuel don't help here, but I think it still exists.Chasing Porsche or Ferrari was only ever going to end in disaster.
Does this mean my 3 TVR's will suddenly be worth a fortune? 
Probably not as they aren't garage queens though, the tuscan did 3000 miles last week!
I spoke to Dom at TVR power a while back, he said that there was everything in place to be able to build new cars, just it needed a large investment of cash before it could be done.
I think better to remember TVR for producing crazy cars, than keep churning out new idea's and not producing anything, just please don't put the name on a bloody wind turbine!
Probably not as they aren't garage queens though, the tuscan did 3000 miles last week!I spoke to Dom at TVR power a while back, he said that there was everything in place to be able to build new cars, just it needed a large investment of cash before it could be done.
I think better to remember TVR for producing crazy cars, than keep churning out new idea's and not producing anything, just please don't put the name on a bloody wind turbine!
Egg Chaser said:
Obviously, we'd love to see TVR producting cars again, but diesel and electric TVRs? That's just not right.
Looking at Tesla it might have saved the company. They realised that you can sell laptop battery powered sports cars at silly prices. After all they now make two models (soon to be three) and have strategic partnerships with Mercedes-Benz, Smart, Toyota and Lotus.
Edited by speedy_thrills on Wednesday 11th July 10:29
It is odd that Peter Stevens even sold what I would expect was his heart and sole to that moron.
At some point the UK will try and start selling its crown jewels to people that have a connection to the UK. That way it is possible that at least some companies will not be trashed by owners with little or no interest in their existance.
As someone else at least he could put the name and whatever else is left up to sale and perhaps a John Bloor or Stewart Garner will come along and get those great cars back on the road.
At some point the UK will try and start selling its crown jewels to people that have a connection to the UK. That way it is possible that at least some companies will not be trashed by owners with little or no interest in their existance.
As someone else at least he could put the name and whatever else is left up to sale and perhaps a John Bloor or Stewart Garner will come along and get those great cars back on the road.
Vocal Minority said:
300bhp] said:
I noticed when looking up the 4/4's price that Morgan will also sell you a Plus 8, essentially the same car but with a BMW V8 in it, but it's about £74,000. Ok I have no idea how much BMW charge for the engine, which could be a lot. But there must be greater margin and not just greater cost. The figures just don't add up otherwise.
The new plus 8 is based on the bonded alluminium Aero chassis not the 'classic' as they call it. So you could look at it as a cut price supersport, rather than an expensive +4Edited by Vocal Minority on Wednesday 11th July 10:21
Although I suppose the point still stands, at what actual cost in terms of parts/manpower would it take to build a car?
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