RE: Tell Me I'm Wrong: Porsche 911 Turbo
Discussion
The GT2 is great in isolation, but then if you jump straight into a GT3, you find it that bit tighter and of course the engine noise is to die for.
I have had a Carrera S and Turbo of the Turbo variety and never got used to the nose bobbing and initial understeer in the Carrera. I just felt the Turbo was better 'tied' down and a better road car. The power was also incredible and it was just something i couldn't not indulge myself in from time to time. I would have taken neither on track though.
I have had a Carrera S and Turbo of the Turbo variety and never got used to the nose bobbing and initial understeer in the Carrera. I just felt the Turbo was better 'tied' down and a better road car. The power was also incredible and it was just something i couldn't not indulge myself in from time to time. I would have taken neither on track though.
Trommel said:
V8RX7 said:
The absolute worst cars for this are GTRs - you might as well advertise that you can't drive because the car does it all for you.
Is this the comments section on YouTube? A GT-R is a more involving drive than a 997 Turbo and an awful lot of them seem to get crashed given that they drive themselves.Obviously there is a limit to what the car can sort out - the idiots that crash them either REALLY can't drive or can't drive and turned the systems off.
However they would have crashed a Cerbera etc a damn site sooner
Sorted my 997 turbo's lack of exhaust tone with 200cell cat's & K&n cone filters,much more driveable than standard now.
Mine is a gen 1 tiptronic,have drove a pdk car & the 7 speed box just makes the car feel twice as torquey.
Drove 996 turbo s with manual box the other day and it somehow felt too fast when driven as i would in my tiptronic?
A 997 turbo s with pdk is,in my opinion the finest incarnation of a 911.
Mine is a gen 1 tiptronic,have drove a pdk car & the 7 speed box just makes the car feel twice as torquey.
Drove 996 turbo s with manual box the other day and it somehow felt too fast when driven as i would in my tiptronic?
A 997 turbo s with pdk is,in my opinion the finest incarnation of a 911.
CarbonM5 said:
V8RX7 said:
I'm tending to agree with Dan, not just about the 911 Turbo but so many modern cars you simply can't scratch the surface of their ability on the road without doubling / tripling the speed limit.
I recently bought a 420bhp V8 RX7 and it's fantastic BUT I actually have more fun in my 210bhp MX5.
I simply can't "go for it" on an A road in the RX7 because it's not trying this side of 130mph the same is true of most modern sports cars.
I'm getting drawn towards the Classic car world where going 50mph around a corner is exciting as you might not make it.
The absolute worst cars for this are GTRs - you might as well advertise that you can't drive because the car does it all for you.
Driving a GTR in the wet with all aids off is one of the trickiest cars to drive,the back end steps out quickly,much more accuracy is needed with steering inputs to correct it over something like an M car or AMG.I recently bought a 420bhp V8 RX7 and it's fantastic BUT I actually have more fun in my 210bhp MX5.
I simply can't "go for it" on an A road in the RX7 because it's not trying this side of 130mph the same is true of most modern sports cars.
I'm getting drawn towards the Classic car world where going 50mph around a corner is exciting as you might not make it.
The absolute worst cars for this are GTRs - you might as well advertise that you can't drive because the car does it all for you.
Did I mention turning aids off ? (However none of my cars have any aids to turn off)
AMG - I was talking about drivers cars, not a fast lounge - can you even get an manual AMG ?
M cars - they haven't been much fun since the E30
dazren said:
It's true that most people don't have the "commitment" to drive the recent turbos to the level they becomes fun...... That is not a problem with the car. It's an issue of the driver/the law.
Still not getting bored or afraid of mine after 10+ years.
I'll agree with Lord Daz on this one.Still not getting bored or afraid of mine after 10+ years.
I will also say there are Turbo people and there are GT3 people. I would never consider a GT3, but a Turbo floats my boat like no other.
LHD said:
I'll agree with Lord Daz on this one.
I will also say there are Turbo people and there are GT3 people. I would never consider a GT3, but a Turbo floats my boat like no other.
I'm in that third camp you nearly mentioned - I'd drive a Turbo every day, but take the GT3 on trackdays.I will also say there are Turbo people and there are GT3 people. I would never consider a GT3, but a Turbo floats my boat like no other.
They're both great cars, and they've both got their places. But they're different. Obviously.
The article misses the fact that most people, sadly, have to compromise in their choice of car - which is where the Turbo ticks a lot of boxes.
I had the choice of a 997.1TT or a 997.2 C2S and went with the latter. I'd gladly add a TT to the stable next to it, though.
LHD said:
dazren said:
It's true that most people don't have the "commitment" to drive the recent turbos to the level they becomes fun...... That is not a problem with the car. It's an issue of the driver/the law.
Still not getting bored or afraid of mine after 10+ years.
I'll agree with Lord Daz on this one.Still not getting bored or afraid of mine after 10+ years.
I will also say there are Turbo people and there are GT3 people. I would never consider a GT3, but a Turbo floats my boat like no other.
Bought my first at 19 and love them all, I can appreciate a boggo 2.5 boxster or a 7GT2, air cooled or water, no matter, its a marque you have to love!
ES335 said:
I owned a 996 Turbo for eighteen months. Speed wise it was great fun but licence losingly fast - just hitting .7bar boost in third was 125mph. Mainly what I had against it was how horribly noisy it was on motorway journeys - - that and the utterly crap Bose stereo. I thought it was too much of a half way house quick, relatively unrefined but not intimate enough to love.
Think you mean 4th gear... 3rd won't take you much beyond 100mph in fact !Sounds like you had unreasonable expectations of the car.... critising it for being noisy on motorways... well its a sports car wearing gumball sized boots with its engine behind your head, what did you expect ? If you want a quiet motorway cruiser, buy an S-Class.
As for the bose, again, its a perfectly fine system that can go to ear splittingly loud levels with zero distortion... in fact, I think it offered a better overall sound the 2012 RR autobiography I recently had with a 1200W HarmonKardon system (which did distort at higher levels).
gerradiuk said:
I'm guessing that neither of you have been in or driven 4.5 Cerbera ? If you are having a boring day after a "spirited" drive in these you come back feeling alive, in some cases lucky to be alive Lol.
I remember my Cerbera being the only car I've ever been scared of before even getting into it. When I knew I was going for a 'drive' I'd shake slightly as I reached for the keys. Then the sound as you started it up in the garage and the world around you exploded.. it was proper scary supercar stuff. I guess much like a bike I knew that mistake = almost certain death but that was part of the appeal.That said, I found it much less scary on the limit than driving the 996 on the road. The TVR let you do the driving and you always knew where you stood. When it broke traction your grin just got wider and you carried on.
The 996 felt like it wanted to do the driving and bring you along for the ride. The only time it would suddenly ask for driver input was when it broke into a slide, the trouble being that (with its Michelins) it usually happened at lottery numbers and caught you slightly off guard with the way it broke away. Which meant that instead of enjoying it you spent the entire duration of the slide in fear until grip returned.
Don't get me wrong I loved being a small part of a great machine in the 911 and the power delivery was way superior to the nothing below 5000rpm experience in the cerbera.
On the track where the numbers didn't matter it transformed into a proper drivers car and on the road you could argue that taking pleasure in the cars ability within the limits is probably a better idea.
I guess I personally love both driving experiences but you can't have your cake and eat it.
Edited by Niffty951 on Sunday 18th November 12:43
Edited by Niffty951 on Sunday 18th November 12:46
RichardR said:
I was fortunate enough to borrow a 997.1 Turbo for a weekend and it was properly quick in comparison to my nearest benchmark, a 4.2 Cerbera. It's the only car I've driven where, when overtaking, you have to hold back on the throttle until you've moved out to overtake in order to avoid piling into the car in front instead of [very swiftly] passing it!
Ride a 600+cc bike. Overtaking performance (no need for full throttle to overtake almost anything) and involving. Of course, when you get to 1000cc sports bike the same arguments as those raised against the 911 Turbo are valid.I'd love to drive an old 911 turbo just to experience it.
MC Bodge said:
Ride a 600+cc bike. Overtaking performance (no need for full throttle to overtake almost anything) and involving. Of course, when you get to 1000cc sports bike the same arguments as those raised against the 911 Turbo are valid.
I'd love to drive an old 911 turbo just to experience it.
Not to totally go OT, but a standard Japanese or German or Italian 1000cc superbike is more akin to a GT2/3 than a Turbo. The bike equiv of the Turbo would be a ZZR1400 or a Busa. All imho of course I'd love to drive an old 911 turbo just to experience it.
The weirdest (in terms of not fitting into boxes) guy I ever met was a 6"3 muscular company director (literal here, not metaphorically or a joke) who owned a 911 Turbo S Cabriolet (manual gearbox though) and had a Yamaha R1 trackbike, a Ducati 1198S, various dirt bikes and a Ducati Desmosedici. This bloke was RABID about bikes and about bike trackdays but had perhaps the softest 911 around (well 2nd softest cos of the manual)! I always told myself that if he found the 911 TS Cab fun, it must be! (it was his only vehicle though and he lives in Canada where it snows half the year).
Both sides of the arguement are valid, my 997TT Gen 1 is a great car in manual form but I've also had the pleasure of driving a 997GT3RS and for cars with loosely similar performance (as measured by various lap comparisons), the way they deliver it is so different and I must say I prefer the GT3 for the pure driving sensation and outright fun - until it gets too cold and slippery for the track orientated rubber.
Both can be used as daily drivers, although I'd suggest the turbo is better in this role: mine lives outside all the time, does the school run, goes to the builder's merchant and is usually so dirty you can't tell what colour it is! Yet given a cold morning at Bruntingthorpe and it outdragged a MP4 - Twice!
Fuel consumption 18mpg on a "fun" run, 28mpg this week on a 500 mile round trip to Yorkshire
Noise: the turbo's exhaust sound is lost because the car is so well insulated, granted it's no Gallardo/430/Aston (insert your favourite noisy car here) but try sitting behind it when its on full chat with the exhaust flaps open and it still sounds awesome.
As for whether its a valid argument to raise - well we've all spent ages reading the posts and throwing our opinions out there so I guess any arguement is a good arguement.
Both can be used as daily drivers, although I'd suggest the turbo is better in this role: mine lives outside all the time, does the school run, goes to the builder's merchant and is usually so dirty you can't tell what colour it is! Yet given a cold morning at Bruntingthorpe and it outdragged a MP4 - Twice!
Fuel consumption 18mpg on a "fun" run, 28mpg this week on a 500 mile round trip to Yorkshire
Noise: the turbo's exhaust sound is lost because the car is so well insulated, granted it's no Gallardo/430/Aston (insert your favourite noisy car here) but try sitting behind it when its on full chat with the exhaust flaps open and it still sounds awesome.
As for whether its a valid argument to raise - well we've all spent ages reading the posts and throwing our opinions out there so I guess any arguement is a good arguement.
I've had:
964 C4
993 RS
964 Turbo 3.6
996 GT3 mk 1
996 C2 Cab
997 TT Cab
Of these, the 993 was The. Best. Car. Ever, the 3.6 Turbo was a lovely cruiser that completely belied its reputation, the GT3 was a far less complete car than the RS, and the 997 TT was definitely too fast to be fun. I sold it after finding myself doing 1.4 leptons on French D roads before I even began to have a sense of the car's limits. My next 911 will be a narrow-body 964 in lighweight trim on nothing wider than a 225-section tyre and with no more than 300bhp. And it will be more fun than the TT by a country mile.
964 C4
993 RS
964 Turbo 3.6
996 GT3 mk 1
996 C2 Cab
997 TT Cab
Of these, the 993 was The. Best. Car. Ever, the 3.6 Turbo was a lovely cruiser that completely belied its reputation, the GT3 was a far less complete car than the RS, and the 997 TT was definitely too fast to be fun. I sold it after finding myself doing 1.4 leptons on French D roads before I even began to have a sense of the car's limits. My next 911 will be a narrow-body 964 in lighweight trim on nothing wider than a 225-section tyre and with no more than 300bhp. And it will be more fun than the TT by a country mile.
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