RE: Alfa Romeo 4C spied testing

[ZesPak]

C36 Nico said:

The Audi TT RS has 335 bhp stock, aftermarket tuners are offering 430-500 bhp stage tunings...
If this is 250-300bhp as standard, 350 should be no problem.

Imho it's not what this produces as standard, it's more a HP/L thing, but, 200bhp/L (1,75L*200 = 350) puts it into overtuned Evo territory. Not only reliability, but also MPG and driveability will be a huge question mark.

[Uncle John]

A friend of mine has the Giulietta with the 1750 and his is reliably tuned to 270bhp. After that I would imagine a 1.7 would become fairly stressed.

As for the analogy with the TTRS, a 2.5 five cylinder is inherently stronger that a 1.7 four.

[C36 Nico]

The New AMG A45 delivers 350 bhp stock from a 2 litre.
Will that not be driveable either then?

[BaronVonVaderham]

Alfa's are meant to be pretty though.

The 8C is probably the best looking modern sports car since the 70's. Was lucky enough to see a white convertible on Old st last summer and even that was spectacular. Personally i'd take mine as a coupe in red.

However this one will be:

1.) More expensive than the rivals (>£45k)
2.) Slower than a M135
3.) About 300kg heavier than '900kg'
4.) Not have a CF tub

Would love to be proved wrong though. Notihng would please me more than seeing every single 2-door 'sporty' Audi ste-Line replaced by these on our pitiful roads.

[nickfrog]

With 350hp I think the other issue would be traction, as I guess a lot of Nm arriving in one big lump at low revs. Might be OK on a 4WD 1500kg Merc but on a 1000kg 2wd, and despite mid-engine ? Not sure. I'd certainly struggle with it, but I am no drifter...

[ZesPak]

C36 Nico said:

The New AMG A45 delivers 350 bhp stock from a 2 litre.
Will that not be driveable either then?

4WD hatch though, not really comparable to a RWD mid-engined sports car.

BaronVonVaderham said:

2.) Slower than a M135

Not this again who called it?

[kambites]

nickfrog said:

I think the other issue will be traction, as I guess a lot of Nm arriving in one big lump at low revs. Might be OK on a 4WD 1500kg Merc but on a 1000kg 2wd, and despite mid-engine ? Not sure. I'd certainly struggle with it, but I am no drifter...

Elises with similar power/torque figures seem to manage OK as long as the driver realises that the throttle is an analogue device. The combination of turbo lag and lots of torque might make it a little more interesting, though.

[nickfrog]

Well my guess is they often have to short-shift even with small amounts of lock, which kind of defeats the object of such power. That's where the progressive nature of a NA engine makes a bit more sense.

[kambites]

nickfrog said:

Well my guess is they often have to short-shift even with small amounts of lock, which kind of defeats the object of such power. That's where the progressive nature of a NA engine makes a bit more sense.

I haven't driven a really powerful Elise in the wet, but in the dry a 300bhp Elise develops a surprising amount of traction. Obviously you can't just floor it in first and expect it to just grip, but short-shifting isn't really necessary. I'm guessing the Alfa will have a pretty paranoid traction control system to try to keep people on the road.

I dread to think of the carnage that would ensue if they released it without TC.

[braddo]

nickfrog said:

Well my guess is they often have to short-shift even with small amounts of lock, which kind of defeats the object of such power. That's where the progressive nature of a NA engine makes a bit more sense.

Elise chassis for the corners, turbo power for the straights. The object is not defeated.

[El Capitano]

FlavaDave said:

Terrible photoshop work on that ^

Huh? What's photoshopped? Am
I being blind? (Am on a phone but looks fine to me? Taken at the same show/event as a few other photos posted isn't it?)

Edit. Maybe you are right!! Reflections/bumper/grass.
However it's the same place as the other outdoor photo posted isn't it?

[Flashmurder]

A RWD turbo Alfa coupe is something that I have dreamed of for many a year. Literally my dream car. Can't wait to see the finished product. Unfortunately I won't be able to afford one new but in a couple of years when the prices start plummeting I will be picking one up for sure.

[pits]

ZesPak said:

pits said:

How long has it been since Alfa made a car unpleasing to the eye? 166 maybe, struggling to think of any other Alfas that are offensive to look at.

Just stunning.

Indeed, the MiTo looks akward from some angles but on the whole it looks great, as does the Giulietta. The 159 is still one of the best looking small sedans and breaks ever made imho (but I'm biased ). The Brera and Spider have great road presence, and a menacing face. I even like the look of the 166, not by any stretch a bad looking car imho, especially next to the competition in it's class. 156, 147, I think, for me, I'd have to look before those (155 & 145) to find something that isn't looking great.

The thing is go back to the 155 you could have this, with it's suspect build quality but reliable


Or this



You could have


Or this




The 75 imho was a looker as well, really the 164/166 is the only ugly cars I can think of, I mean the above cars haven't aged well, but at the time they looked good.

And whilst Mazda had brought out the MX5, Alfa were still putting this out




I will have to disagree with the Brera, the front end is gorgeous, I am struggling to think of ugly Alfas, the Montreal for example I could love if I only ever had to just look at one headlight with the grill.

[FlavaDave]

El Capitano said:

FlavaDave said:

Terrible photoshop work on that ^

Huh? What's photoshopped? Am
I being blind? (Am on a phone but looks fine to me? Taken at the same show/event as a few other photos posted isn't it?)

Edit. Maybe you are right!! Reflections/bumper/grass.
However it's the same place as the other outdoor photo posted isn't it?

The whole series of those shots is a cut out of a show car, taken inside, photoshopped on to the grass. The main giveaway is the shadows immediately under the car and tyres. They're too weak. And on some, there's a very poor attempt to make it look like the car is sitting deep into the grass.

[4a4]

I like big butts and i cannot lie. Looks brilliant fun

[Esseesse]

FlavaDave said:

El Capitano said:

FlavaDave said:

Terrible photoshop work on that ^

Huh? What's photoshopped? Am
I being blind? (Am on a phone but looks fine to me? Taken at the same show/event as a few other photos posted isn't it?)

Edit. Maybe you are right!! Reflections/bumper/grass.
However it's the same place as the other outdoor photo posted isn't it?

The whole series of those shots is a cut out of a show car, taken inside, photoshopped on to the grass. The main giveaway is the shadows immediately under the car and tyres. They're too weak. And on some, there's a very poor attempt to make it look like the car is sitting deep into the grass.

Weird, I hadn't thought they might be all photoshopped. The photograph in question does appear to have some weird camera angle (photoshop skewed?) going on which makes it look poor.

[Esseesse]

People seem to always miss these pictures. All you ever seem to see is indoor shots in either silver or the weird matte red.

[OlberJ]

braddo said:

nickfrog said:

Well my guess is they often have to short-shift even with small amounts of lock, which kind of defeats the object of such power. That's where the progressive nature of a NA engine makes a bit more sense.

Elise chassis for the corners, turbo power for the straights. The object is not defeated.

You need adjustability mid corner, not turbo throttle response.

NA or SC is the answer for a proper sports car.

[iSore]

At the end of the day, when you see one out on the road it's going to look tremendous. It may not be quite as good as an Audi TT, but not being an Audi TT will be it's biggest strength. It will be good enough for its target audience so all Alfa nee4d to do is price it right and have a good enough dealer chain to sell it.

Aah. Just seen the flaw in the plan.

[C36 Nico]

iSore said:

At the end of the day, when you see one out on the road it's going to look tremendous. It may not be quite as good as an Audi TT, but not being an Audi TT will be it's biggest strength. It will be good enough for its target audience so all Alfa nee4d to do is price it right and have a good enough dealer chain to sell it.

Aah. Just seen the flaw in the plan.

After being given a carbon tub, if it cant even beat a Audi TT aka Golf-in-a-drag - then there really is no hope for alfa.