RE: Dual-clutch Clio RS: the defence
Discussion
Well I won't be replacing my Megane 250 with a non manual Clio or Megane tbh that's just
Not to my tastes, I'm sure it will be a good car but its not for me I like to drive my cars not just steer them,
Having driven a few DSG audi's and vw's I can't think of a more yawn inducing drive tbh as I don't sit in an office all day I don't generally struggle to lift my left leg and push it down and because I use both arms not just my right arm to push a mouse around
I get on just fine with a manual car
Not to my tastes, I'm sure it will be a good car but its not for me I like to drive my cars not just steer them,
Having driven a few DSG audi's and vw's I can't think of a more yawn inducing drive tbh as I don't sit in an office all day I don't generally struggle to lift my left leg and push it down and because I use both arms not just my right arm to push a mouse around
I get on just fine with a manual car
sjg said:
Yay, and now we're into the idiotic argument of comparing old secondhand car prices with new.
What, you mean like people do in the real world? People who want the fastest car they can get for their money probably aren't looking at new Clios. This may come as a shock to yourself and the boss of RS.
sjg said:
Mastodon2 said:
"We're going with dual clutch, it's quicker" - But then no one who wants the ultimate quickest car is going to spend £20k on a Clio when £20K would get you all sorts of much, much quicker cars. Anyone who wanted the ultimate in speed, for even half the price, would get a Skyline, an Evo or Supra, which would obliterate a Clio on road or track.
Yay, and now we're into the idiotic argument of comparing old secondhand car prices with new.If the RS Clio was aimed at drivers rather than at who the marketing dept say will spend more money it would be lighter, have less doors, a N/A or larger FI engine, a manual gearbox and few toys.
I think that a more PH version of this will come and that Renault have been smart keeping the car in the spotlight on forums and in car geek arguments by being a bit controversial, and if I'm right and the Cup version includes a Spanish gearbox then they'll have played a blinder.
The irony for me is the 172 i used to had probably the worst gearbox i've encountered!
People need to get real; they're delivering what the majority wants. Perhaps if they shared the actual cost vs benefit of the manual option, it would be an easier option to swallow. It would be interesting to see what they would charge if a manual 'box was a cost option, just to break even...
I hardly see any hot Clios on the road, whereas the Mini Cooper S, Golf GTI and even the Corsa VXR is plentiful. Clearly Renault need to do something to address this, and once the 20-somethings who buy these cars see the 0-60 time of the launch-control enabled DSG Clio, i'm sure it will spark a few orders!
People need to get real; they're delivering what the majority wants. Perhaps if they shared the actual cost vs benefit of the manual option, it would be an easier option to swallow. It would be interesting to see what they would charge if a manual 'box was a cost option, just to break even...
I hardly see any hot Clios on the road, whereas the Mini Cooper S, Golf GTI and even the Corsa VXR is plentiful. Clearly Renault need to do something to address this, and once the 20-somethings who buy these cars see the 0-60 time of the launch-control enabled DSG Clio, i'm sure it will spark a few orders!
"Racing cars use paddleshift gearboxes", that is exactly the point for racing on a track in a lightweight stripped out car they're perfect but for driving on a road you want to saviour the whole experience. I guess they've never been able to make a pedal box that allowed effortless heel n toe so maybe auto is the way to go for renault. I bet it has a separate speaker for the engine noise 
Cars are getting so girly, I'm starting to think a fast motorbike is the only thing that can offer raw experience.
Cars are getting so girly, I'm starting to think a fast motorbike is the only thing that can offer raw experience.
hondansx said:
People need to get real; they're delivering what the majority wants. Perhaps if they shared the actual cost vs benefit of the manual option, it would be an easier option to swallow. It would be interesting to see what they would charge if a manual 'box was a cost option, just to break even...
But are they? What most people seem to want is German and it seems only the brave opt for the Renault sport experience. It seems daft to scare off your loyal fan base and try and chase VW, Audi customers instead as they are hardly likely to "convert".Simply put, by not offering a manual option they may loose a load of sales.
Himself said:
BS75 said:
The first two paragraphs of the article shows exactly why Renault's performance in the UK has become so dismal: they don't give two s
ts what UK customers want.
I'd be prepared to put money on Renault gaining more customers than they lose.ts what UK customers want.Flappy paddle boxes aren't the easiest things to get right - people forget that Porsche for example has been knocking them out and developing them for almost two decades, and even Audi, who have a great thing in the DSG took a while to work out how to do it properly.
Given Renault's complete lack of ability to get anything right the first time I'd be prepared to wager the complete opposite: that this gearbox will be an unmitigated failure that regularly self destructs and that by not offering a manual even as an option they'll just pick up a whole load of new fans who end up bitterly disappointed over the next few years and don't become repeat buyers.
I also will not entertain this new iteration of the RS Clio, I could live with the 5 door change, I could live with the general declining 'good' looks, but I don't want a Clio with a flappy paddle box.
It's a shame as I've owned the current RS200 over 3.5 years (14k miles) and am now looking for my next fun car... I think I'll go back to older fun cars instead.
It's a shame as I've owned the current RS200 over 3.5 years (14k miles) and am now looking for my next fun car... I think I'll go back to older fun cars instead.
Deadlysub said:
I think within the next decade you won't be able to buy a performance car from a large manufacturer with a manual gearbox.
I hope not. I really like clutch less manuals and yet, there is nothing quite as satisfying as getting the up changes right under hard acceleration and the 'snick snack' as you move up the 'box. A truly visceral pleasure.....It could have the best chassis, best manual gearbox and best engine in the world. But I still wouldnt buy one because it is so horrifically, goppingly, vomitously ugly!! 
Whoever thought making the grille look like the bonnet isnt shut properly, then sticking a ridiculously oversized badge and headlights on the front, was a good idea? Have they been to specsavers yet?
Whoever thought making the grille look like the bonnet isnt shut properly, then sticking a ridiculously oversized badge and headlights on the front, was a good idea? Have they been to specsavers yet?
BS75 said:
Himself said:
BS75 said:
The first two paragraphs of the article shows exactly why Renault's performance in the UK has become so dismal: they don't give two sts what UK customers want.
I'd be prepared to put money on Renault gaining more customers than they lose.ts what UK customers want.Flappy paddle boxes aren't the easiest things to get right - people forget that Porsche for example has been knocking them out and developing them for almost two decades, and even Audi, who have a great thing in the DSG took a while to work out how to do it properly.
Given Renault's complete lack of ability to get anything right the first time I'd be prepared to wager the complete opposite: that this gearbox will be an unmitigated failure that regularly self destructs and that by not offering a manual even as an option they'll just pick up a whole load of new fans who end up bitterly disappointed over the next few years and don't become repeat buyers.
And you're aware that the box is built by Getrag? I mean, who the hell are they right? What so they think they know about gearboxes?
So much claptrap spouted in this thread. There won't be a manual option, at all, ever. I'd put money on it.
It will be a brilliant car, it will run rings around the previous generations of Clio RS models too.
And that's all I gotta say about that.
The bit that I don't understand about this guy's comments is this: The floorpan on which this car is based (same as the Juke) can be fitted with this engine and a CVT gearbox. That's actually the best type of gearbox for power - it holds the engine at peak HP while speed builds. If going quickly was the sole purpose of the enterprise, why doesn't it have the CVT box?
Interesting thread.... Having been involved with the renault brand in the past and having owned and driven a myriad of RS models my views:
-Every single new RS model has been slated upon launch. Without fail. The 182 was no improvement over the holy PH1 172 or PH Quick as it became known, enthusiasts slated the drive by wire... what you needed was a Ph1 with cable throttle, and if yours had both aluminium bonnet and shift light you were instantly promoted to moderator status!
The 200 was overweight and slow and uglier than the 197... yet everyone loves it now!
-Those that say the RS models are the saviour of Renault I have news for you. They represent a small percentage of overall sales. Its also worth noting that alot of 'enthusiasts' don't actually buy new cars they buy at sub 5k a few years down the line and moan when a manufacturer changes something but won't actually buy one!
- And finally the RS market is growing up, many of us have had Clio Williams's, PH1 172's, Clio Trophys, 197 F1's, we have tried them all, remember the 172 came out in 2000... 13 yrs ago! A five door clio RS... sounds fantastic, what a great family car.
One things for sure it will drive great and I think it will be a massive sucess!
-Every single new RS model has been slated upon launch. Without fail. The 182 was no improvement over the holy PH1 172 or PH Quick as it became known, enthusiasts slated the drive by wire... what you needed was a Ph1 with cable throttle, and if yours had both aluminium bonnet and shift light you were instantly promoted to moderator status!
The 200 was overweight and slow and uglier than the 197... yet everyone loves it now!
-Those that say the RS models are the saviour of Renault I have news for you. They represent a small percentage of overall sales. Its also worth noting that alot of 'enthusiasts' don't actually buy new cars they buy at sub 5k a few years down the line and moan when a manufacturer changes something but won't actually buy one!
- And finally the RS market is growing up, many of us have had Clio Williams's, PH1 172's, Clio Trophys, 197 F1's, we have tried them all, remember the 172 came out in 2000... 13 yrs ago! A five door clio RS... sounds fantastic, what a great family car.
One things for sure it will drive great and I think it will be a massive sucess!
TVR1 said:
Butter Face said:
A CVT box? Really? 
Have some more!
My point was that if you want driver involvement, the best thing is a manual box. If you want the best economy and speed, the best thing is a CVT box. Why bother with a dual clutch since it doesn't do either thing properly?
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