RE: Alfa Romeo 4C - first official pictures
Discussion
Why does this have to be a game of Top Trumps?
Unless it's going racing, does it even matter that it might have less power than CarX?
Look back 50ish years: two similarly priced sports cars, Jag's E-type and Alfa's Giulietta Spider (£2160 and £2091 respectively) were at different ends of the Top Trumps deck (3781cc DOHC six plays 1290cc DOHC four, 265bhp plays 65bhp, 150mph plays 102mph) but that hardly renders the Alfa pointless, just different.
Any car that has been designed with a hope of being fun or making us feel good in some way deserves to be celebrated here. I can't help thinking that the 4C fits that bill very well indeed.
Unless it's going racing, does it even matter that it might have less power than CarX?
Look back 50ish years: two similarly priced sports cars, Jag's E-type and Alfa's Giulietta Spider (£2160 and £2091 respectively) were at different ends of the Top Trumps deck (3781cc DOHC six plays 1290cc DOHC four, 265bhp plays 65bhp, 150mph plays 102mph) but that hardly renders the Alfa pointless, just different.
Any car that has been designed with a hope of being fun or making us feel good in some way deserves to be celebrated here. I can't help thinking that the 4C fits that bill very well indeed.
Mini1275 said:
I'm not too sure on the looks, it seems too squashed up.
A bit insect-like.
Agreed, 1st look says I don't like it. Like when you go through a front door of a house, if you don't like it that's it, going to take a lot of convincing.A bit insect-like.
Edited by Mini1275 on Tuesday 12th February 12:06
otolith said:
It uses a lot of carbon fibre, but is still likely to be a little heavier than a contemporary supercharged Elise, with a similar power to weight ratio. The question appears to be - what is the money spent on carbon fibre buying you? We will have to wait and see, but I have a suspicion that what you will get will be an Elise type driving experience with more mainstream comfort and refinement. I think the buyers for this may well be those who like the way the Lotus drives but can't quite live with one.
Yes, it makes me think of the difference between riding an aluminium road bike and a carbon one - an absolutely huge difference in NVH and comfort - perhaps that kind of difference will be evident between an Elise and the 4C.Before this turns into a £ per lb/ft argument can I just ask who would honestly put there own money down on a tiny plastic fiat with a generic tuneless 1.8ltr engine. If it was the same pound for pound as the Cayman (needs no introduction)?
I mean besides being purposely awkward or obtuse. Why/who?!?!
If it's a rwd beautiful equivilent to my Mini or an characterfull alternative to an M135 or Gt86 then it is a completely different proposal and suddenly appears the devilish italian temptress of the bunch but in the real world money does matter
I mean besides being purposely awkward or obtuse. Why/who?!?!
If it's a rwd beautiful equivilent to my Mini or an characterfull alternative to an M135 or Gt86 then it is a completely different proposal and suddenly appears the devilish italian temptress of the bunch but in the real world money does matter
Rawwr said:
A3tdi said:
Yes well done you can quote.
It was my opinion of the money buying public.
Now congratulate yourself.
So you don't speak on behalf of the general public but you're comfortable saying how they will perceive it? It was my opinion of the money buying public.
Now congratulate yourself.
That's a neat trick.
Niffty951 said:
Before this turns into a £ per lb/ft argument can I just ask who would honestly put there own money down on a tiny plastic fiat with a generic tuneless 1.8ltr engine. If it was the same pound for pound as the Cayman (needs no introduction)?
I mean besides being purposely awkward or obtuse. Why/who?!?!
If it's a rwd beautiful equivilent to my Mini or an characterfull alternative to an M135 or Gt86 then it is a completely different proposal and suddenly appears the devilish italian temptress of the bunch but in the real world money does matter
If it drives as well as it ought to, I would take one of these over a Cayman - but then I would almost certainly take a new supercharged Elise over either of them and pocket the change. Not everyone likes the same things in a car, the Cayman can't be all things to all men.I mean besides being purposely awkward or obtuse. Why/who?!?!
If it's a rwd beautiful equivilent to my Mini or an characterfull alternative to an M135 or Gt86 then it is a completely different proposal and suddenly appears the devilish italian temptress of the bunch but in the real world money does matter
Regardless of how well it drives, power to weight ratio and all round PH desirability (or otherwise), the things that will determine the sales success can be summed up in four words: residual value and monthly payments. What attracts many buyers to a 135i or Cayman is that they can afford the monthly payment because someone will ultimately want to lease/buy the car at the end of 24/36/48 months and the residuals mean that the monthly payment is affordable.
Perhaps this car can buck the trend or start a new one for Alfa, but currently their cars have disastrous residuals and make little sense to anyone looking at overall cost of owning/leasing one versus German competition. How have Lotus lasted so long selling the Elise and its derivatives: because of relatively strong residuals. Perhaps Alfa will spend money supporting the cars to ensure strong future values or, perhaps the fact that they will be very scarce (Automotive news quotes 2500 annual production with 1000 going to the USA so not many for the UK I suspect) will be enough. As another poster said, it's clearly an image-building exercise and not intended to set the world ablaze with massive sales, hence the price many of us suspect will be 30% too high.
Perhaps this car can buck the trend or start a new one for Alfa, but currently their cars have disastrous residuals and make little sense to anyone looking at overall cost of owning/leasing one versus German competition. How have Lotus lasted so long selling the Elise and its derivatives: because of relatively strong residuals. Perhaps Alfa will spend money supporting the cars to ensure strong future values or, perhaps the fact that they will be very scarce (Automotive news quotes 2500 annual production with 1000 going to the USA so not many for the UK I suspect) will be enough. As another poster said, it's clearly an image-building exercise and not intended to set the world ablaze with massive sales, hence the price many of us suspect will be 30% too high.
otolith said:
If it had a German badge, you'd be w
king yourselves into a frenzy and googling for the best PCP rates.
Well thats your view point, i've owned an Alfa, have you? it doesn't fill you with confidence when the main dealer won't take the car back as a PX even against another Alfa. king yourselves into a frenzy and googling for the best PCP rates.otolith said:
kambites said:
I'm not sure how big the market is for this sort of car in the US? Most Americans I know (admittedly most of them are from the deep south) would never even consider anything that small, mostly because they wouldn't fit in it.
It's a big country, though, and the sales objectives are fairly modest. The US doesn't have the baggage Europe has of the last 20 years or so of slightly ordinary Alfas. If they market it correctly, people are going to see it as a cut price exotic. NB. as an aside, Italian market may take to this as owners can avoid being dessicated by the taxation on cars over 250bhp.
Rawwr said:
.On the flowchart.
Awesomeness (still needs a flat six with 1000bhp and a manual gearbox to be the perfect flowchart mind)
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