RE: Vettel: Tell Me I'm Wrong

[_Neal_]

Ali_T said:

As for Vettel, he shows no humility or empathy. He's either winning and being smug, or losing and being a spoiled brat. Neither is a likeable trait.

It's this for me. He shows his true colours when things aren't going his way (e.g. all that nonsense with Karthikeyan) and comes across really poorly on the team radio - really petulant.

Additionally, I don't think Horner is particularly likeable (mostly to do with his/the team's actual/perceived treatment of Webber and the spin they put on it, and that doesn't help Vettel either.

[sunsurfer]

melvster said:

...I maybe alone in thinking this but I don’t really rate Senna as highly as most folk do, sure he drove some fantastic races but when the car wasn’t on his side, he threw his toys out of the pram, whinged and requested a move to Williams. Schumacher on the hand left a Championship winning Benetton and went to Ferrari which at the time was an awful car but worked his magic along with Ross Brawn and for 5 years they were invincible.

I only believe Ayrton Senna has the following and global recognition because of his tragic death, if he was alive today the obsession would not be as great as it is. If Vettel passed away tomorrow I would be certain the majority of F1 fans would suddenly love Vettel a lot more than they do now.

Senna was an amazing driver but I doubt if he is the best Formula 1 driver ever - as the BBC 'experts' claim.

Vettel is winning too easily at present. It makes a mockery of the sport when a driver is so casually in front that he does a fastest lap every now and again to amuse himself and stay awake at the wheel. Much as I like Mark Webber he hasn't been able to take the fight to his team mate and logically he has to retire.
Let's hope Ricciardo can provide better competition and I hope McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes do a better job next year.

[dgmx5]

Prancing Hippo said:

Just imagine a Bernie backed, 2011 'same car' line up (as much as would be possible for the top 5 anyway), race that was out of the F1 calendar, which all drivers have to pay to compete in solely at their discretion 9sort the men from the boys), that all revenues over cost went to a deserving charity... Now that would be awesome, and something!

Surely this is Top Gear's F1 Star in a Reasonably Priced Car?

Although a same car shootout doesn't work because different drivers' styles suit different cars. A smooth style driver like Button could extract more pace out of one car versus his rivals than he would in a car that needs to be harangued around the track.

[andyvdg]

Multi 21.

Because of what he did.

Because of the implication from Mark's reaction there have been plenty of Multi 12s before.

[Bigadz]

The article fails to mention the small matter of 'Multi 21' which I suspect was the turning point for many viewers as it was for me. And this has nothing to do with speed or talent its about likeability.

I've watched F1 all my life (I'm 30) and seen the villains and heroes but Vettel went way past the mark in Malaysia, but really it was what he did after that which confirmed his true colours...

In the immediate aftermath his demeanour was sullen - he was clearly trying portray someone who was sorry. Come the following weekend though and we saw what he really was - 'I would do it again', he belligerently announces, standing proudly by his unsportsmanlike actions.

Since then he has struggled to contain himself with disrespectful comments and digs at other teams and drivers. What I find so funny is that people still don't seem understand why he is so unpopular??

He should have been punished by the team for his actions as anyone in a normal job who disobeys their superiors would be so you could say that by Red Bulls weakness, they themselves have contributed to his arrogance and unpopularity.

[MDian]

Multi 21
Turkey
Webber
Dominance
Helmut Marko
Red Bull
Finger
Spoilt Child

Despite it all, he seems to be a nice guy that has just had a lot go his way, be that through luck or hard work, I don't know, I haven't followed his whole career. I wasn't a fan, mainly due to his dominance and the Red Bull team (can anyone stand Helmut Marko!) but I've softened to his a little following the boo's, but I hope 2014 brings huge shake-ups in the top step of the podium because after years of following F1, I'm getting a little bored!

Edit - I also think the introduction of frustrating new features like DRS, low fuel and 'roulette' tyres, plus loss of races from the BBC hasn't help the opinions of the sport and obviously the driver featuring on the top-step most races.

Edited by MDian on Thursday 17th October 13:35

[andyps]

For me it is a combination of things, the finger being one and the general smugness another. But probably the main thing is the sulkiness if things don't go his way. Each time I begin to think I could actually support him he does something which changes my view. The first time was probably when Button won the championship in Brazil where he really seemed to throw toys out of the pram because he had been beaten to the title. There have been other incidents since including colliding with Webber and his response to that, all leading up to the Multi 21 this year from which I have yet to change my opinion - not so much because of what he did but the comments afterwards.

Add in the attitude of Horner and Marko and I struggle to support Vettel.

[Roma101]

365daytonafan said:

The Multi 21 incident is no more or less controversial than the 'Fernando is faster than you' incident.

I would say they are different. My opinion of Hockenheim 2010 is that the team, most likely, had raised this issue with Massa before the race - namely asking him that if X circumstance arises, he let FA by. If this happened, this was a team order. The controversial bit was that team orders were banned at the time. The problem however was that the rule IMO and many others' was silly, because team orders were going on up and down the pitlane. Ferrari were just silly to do it so obviously. Nonetheless, this was a breach of a sporting regulation by the team and Ferrari was quite rightly punished.

With Multi 21, it was not a breach of a sporting regulation, but a breach by a driver of his own teams' orders and a conscious decision by a driver to gain a blatant underhand advantage against his own "team mate".

It is of course up to each person to decide which in their opinion is worse, but for me, Multi 21 did more damage to SV's reputation than Hockenheim 2010 did to Ferrari's.

Edited by Roma101 on Thursday 17th October 13:40

[MikeSpencer]

Vettel always strikes me as a boy in a man's sport. Talented but somehow lacking the emotional resilience that marks out a true champion. Champions that battled back from mechanical failures, points deductions, inter-team politics and rivalries, accidents, injuries etc. I'm not certain Vettel has the necessary qualities to be able to do that. As a result, I can't help feeling he's a bit of a 'fair-weather' champion. And us Brits don't respect those because it goes against our national psyche.

Ask yourself if you'd feel the same about Vettel if he was racing and winning for, say, McLaren or Ferrari. Is it a Vettel thing, a Red Bull thing, or a bit of both? I'd say both are equally to blame here.

[sunsurfer]

Prancing Hippo said:

Find him irritating or not (I personally don't particularly given Multi 21, perceived arrogance in front of the camera, finger etc), he will want, as any of us would, want to be seen as a deserving chamption. Most are not sure about this not because of his annoying habits, but because of the 'Newey effect'.

While contractually it may be tough, I would love to see Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi, Button (actually, all of them) fight it out for 1 race in the same cars.

Just imagine a Bernie backed, 2011 'same car' line up (as much as would be possible for the top 5 anyway), race that was out of the F1 calendar, which all drivers have to pay to compete in solely at their discretion 9sort the men from the boys), that all revenues over cost went to a deserving charity... Now that would be awesome, and something!

If Vettel really wants to put doubters at rest, maybe he could push for something like this, possibly prove himself a real champion, do something for a worthy cause and probably gain a few popularity points amoungst fans as well.

OK - sorry all - I guess I am just dreaming...

Fantastic idea. Imagine a non championship race - such as they had in the 60's and 70's. With all the F1 drivers competing in equal machinery. We might get some interesting surprises such as Jules Bianchi proving his real talent.

[Gusto]

Pheedbak said:

Surely being a bit of a cock is part of being a winning racing driver. See Webber for example of how being a nice bloke does in the sport.

And Button

[NGK210]

Out of the car, Vettel is all smiles, amusing Mansell impersonations, etc. But in the car, he can be a complete and utter sh*te - eg, Multi 21, petulant whining, etc.

Nobody likes a Jeckyll and Hyde, in any walk of life.

[Munter]

The Crack Fox said:

What a pity we have a thread attempting to analyse Vettel's personality as opposed to celebrating his success. This is a very British sickness, knocking the winners, looking for flaws. I'm not his biggest fan and don't claim that he is perfect, but why do we have to have pages of people arguing the toss about how Vettel celebrates etc etc instead of admiring him for the undoubted winner he is.

This is a rubbish thread, PH, can we have something more positive to discuss, please ?

As others have said. It's not some big national pastime to knock winners, just look at the support Rossi had on bikes while winning everything.

Some people just come across as wkers. If they are not winning and you call them a wker. That's ok. If they are winning and you call them a wker. That's not ok to some people. But it's got nothing to do with winning. It's how they come across as a person. And vettel, comes across as a wker.

Kimi might seem rude. But he's not known for lying or being underhand so people respect him. What you see is what you get.
Vettel might say the right words to keep the PR guru happy. But too often it's a blatant lie, or has an insincerity to it. You know you're not seeing the truth. No respect is gained.

He'd be much more liked if he just won the race, and said nothing.

[BBS-LM]

I think it would have been mush better if Seb had a team mate who could match him on pace in the car, and race him on track, I'm a fan of webber, but over the years I have just been asking myself what the hell is this person doing in a top F1 team like Red Bull, and last weekend performance put the nail in the coffin for me. But I think you have to look at Red Bull and ask questions as to the motive of the team, they could have got any top driver they wanted to challenge Seb in the second Red Bull, but the team kept it simple and gave Seb and easy challenge from inside the team to win F1 world championships.

Would we see something like that from McLaren?

[dgmx5]

VladD said:

Youjutsusha said:

There is the other thing of seeing him screw over his team mate Aussie Mark Webber over and over...

Apart from Multi 21, when has Seb personally screwed Webber as opposed to Red Bull doing it (i.e. the front wing change at Silverstone)?

Turkey and the repulsive 'screw loose' gestures towards Webber.

[Mermaid]

German supremacy, and selfish behaviour to get to it.

[snorkel sucker]

The irony is, the whole Vettel bashing thing is being used by Red Bull to their advantage.

Their end of race radio messages are done deliberately, "the finger" is now a publicity-generating gesture and even the podium boo-ing has allowed Mr Horner to talk at large about that and deflect valuable interview time away from other items such as traction control and inter-teammate favoritism.

Combine the above with the fact that statistics don't lie and, in years to come, nobody will care whether he was liked or disliked; Vettel will have (possibly) more titles, podiums, fastest laps etc to his name than any other driver.

I would predict that this blog will get more posts than any other has for some time. Even though most posts will be against Mr Vettel, press is still press and he's getting a lot.

Besides, if I was getting paid millions of pounds to drive fast cars, win numerous world titles and have the ear of my boss and his boss, would I care that I'm not everyone's cup of tea? No. I'd do everything I could to really wind them all up whilst at the same time sticking myself on the top step of the podium every week in a car that is simply better than everyone else's.

[steve miami]

Well, this P/Heads post has certainly whipped up a storm !!
Quite righly in my mind!!
Ive been a F1 fan for almost as many years as Sir Murray and have seen many controversial drivers. But Vettel & Red Bull ?
Err... they're on a different level ! No question.
Vettel is a very fast driver. Adrian Newey is a technical GOD !! YES the Red Bull cars are superb !! BUT, all the bad feeling the team have created is unacceptable ! Vettel's screaming Yes, Yes, Yes etc in the car is childish. The finger thing is really not needed. We all know he's W/Champion. Grow-up lad !! The R/Bull management have given Vettel the right do what & say what he likes. Thats Wrong !! He's allowed to treat his team mate like a piece of dirt & to do ANYTHING to win a race. Even when Vettel makes a mistake Webber is blamed. Horner & the top brass in the team have alot to answer for.
YES, Mr Harris youre WRONG !!

Edited by steve miami on Thursday 17th October 13:47

[Foggy748]

Red Bull clearly didn't want Webber to win in Japan. They're Team Vettel and I don't believe Webber ever gets the same car as Vettel.
He's not the best driver on the grid and everyone knows that. He's in the team with the best designer and biggest budget, that's all.

Make the cars all the same and I think the racing would be worth watching. Then we would get to see the best drivers on a level playing field.

As it is, if Vettel wins, I press delete on the recording.

Something's got to change.

[nazzamataz]

vettels dirty finger