RE: BMW M3 and M4: Review
Discussion
jontysafe said:
I see the m3 and m4 have a water to air chargecooler like the m5/m6. That really interests me as I'm thinking of ditching and going plain old air to air (on a completely different engine).
Would love the chance to talk to their engineers.
It's really nothing fancy, they're just using a fluid heat exchanger which have been around since the beginning of time. Simple bits of kit. Would love the chance to talk to their engineers.
Circulating fluid coolant is more effective than air cooling.
Personally I think it looks and sounds like an awesome bit of kit.
M3 in the racing blue with Dct gearbox and ccb please.
As usual posters are contradicting previous views, people complained that the e92 needed to be revved and now people are complaining that the new engine is a torquier turbo engine.
M3 in the racing blue with Dct gearbox and ccb please.
As usual posters are contradicting previous views, people complained that the e92 needed to be revved and now people are complaining that the new engine is a torquier turbo engine.
PunterCam said:
Very plain cars, quite dull. Without the exciting and slightly exotic engines of old, I don't see why you'd buy one of these over a turbo diesel.
Top WUMming!Not without some merit though. Be interesting to hear what the PH team think about the new D3BT theyve had delivered and how 'close' it is to the new M3/4.
Chris Harris said:
PunterCam said:
Very plain cars, quite dull. Without the exciting and slightly exotic engines of old, I don't see why you'd buy one of these over a turbo diesel.
Look up 'uninformed' in the dictionary, and this is now the new definition. ...and where in all this does the RS4 fit in? That Audi V8 engine is an absolute peach. How long is that going to last, though...
BeirutTaxi said:
jontysafe said:
I see the m3 and m4 have a water to air chargecooler like the m5/m6. That really interests me as I'm thinking of ditching and going plain old air to air (on a completely different engine).
Would love the chance to talk to their engineers.
It's really nothing fancy, they're just using a fluid heat exchanger which have been around since the beginning of time. Simple bits of kit. Would love the chance to talk to their engineers.
Circulating fluid coolant is more effective than air cooling.
However, for a road application, where the mean heat flux is very low, the thermal inertia of the system (due to the mass of water) mean you can "get away with" a significantly less effective low temperature radiator. On a modern car, the aero benefits (smaller rad = less drag = better fuel economy!) and packaging benefits tend to outweigh concerns over absolute effectiveness of the system when compared to an air-air architecture.
contango said:
I had a quick look on the configurator (as you do!).
As far as I can tell these cars come very well equipped, even including metallic paint as standard, there didn't really seem to be any essentials not included as standard.
Is that the case?...Certainly a turn around from BMW of old, which can only be a good thing!
I very nearly went for an M3 when I spec'd my 640d GC. From memory, the only additions to the std spec that were 'must-haves' for me was the £175 black/mix wheels and the DCT transmission. Everything else was standard. Very high spec.As far as I can tell these cars come very well equipped, even including metallic paint as standard, there didn't really seem to be any essentials not included as standard.
Is that the case?...Certainly a turn around from BMW of old, which can only be a good thing!
RoverP6B said:
Chris Harris said:
PunterCam said:
Very plain cars, quite dull. Without the exciting and slightly exotic engines of old, I don't see why you'd buy one of these over a turbo diesel.
Look up 'uninformed' in the dictionary, and this is now the new definition. ...and where in all this does the RS4 fit in? That Audi V8 engine is an absolute peach. How long is that going to last, though...
No one that has driven the new M3/M4 has had a single word of complaint about the engine??
As for the loss of V8s, look at environmental issues (and financial penalties) and look at 60% fuel consumption despite a higher performance engine. The loss of V8 soundtrack is a great shame but there is more than enough to compensate....and no petrol BMW-6 has ever sounded poor!
RoverP6B said:
Chris Harris said:
PunterCam said:
Very plain cars, quite dull. Without the exciting and slightly exotic engines of old, I don't see why you'd buy one of these over a turbo diesel.
Look up 'uninformed' in the dictionary, and this is now the new definition. ...and where in all this does the RS4 fit in? That Audi V8 engine is an absolute peach. How long is that going to last, though...
ks....I am considering a new M3 to replace my C63 early next year as I have a feeling the lease deals are going to be generous on these and I really like the 4 door. Coupe looks weird in the flesh IMO.
But,I have a feeling the new C63 4.0 V8 is going to sound amazing in comparison and won't have any synthesised engine noise pumped into the cabin.
Amazing mpg figures, I am hoping they get a 25-26 average so I can convince my wife as she's not impressed with my current 18mpg average!
But,I have a feeling the new C63 4.0 V8 is going to sound amazing in comparison and won't have any synthesised engine noise pumped into the cabin.
Amazing mpg figures, I am hoping they get a 25-26 average so I can convince my wife as she's not impressed with my current 18mpg average!
Ares said:
I very nearly went for an M3 when I spec'd my 640d GC. From memory, the only additions to the std spec that were 'must-haves' for me was the £175 black/mix wheels and the DCT transmission. Everything else was standard. Very high spec.
Yep similar for me, I only needed to add the DCT, not a fan of the two tone wheels. Hence this will be a great car to lease (like my C63) as you don't need to divide the options by the term.Amirhussain said:
RoverP6B said:
Chris Harris said:
PunterCam said:
Very plain cars, quite dull. Without the exciting and slightly exotic engines of old, I don't see why you'd buy one of these over a turbo diesel.
Look up 'uninformed' in the dictionary, and this is now the new definition. ...and where in all this does the RS4 fit in? That Audi V8 engine is an absolute peach. How long is that going to last, though...
ks....E65Ross said:
Well, his 1st sentence about saying it's not a bespoke engine is wrong. It even says in the article! I stopped reading after that.
The block and head are exactly the same as in a 3/435i from what I've read.Ares said:
What is most important for an M-Car? the Car/drive or the Engineering? Is a fully bespoke engine worth paying an extra £10-20k for?
No one that has driven the new M3/M4 has had a single word of complaint about the engine??
As for the loss of V8s, look at environmental issues (and financial penalties) and look at 60% fuel consumption despite a higher performance engine. The loss of V8 soundtrack is a great shame but there is more than enough to compensate....and no petrol BMW-6 has ever sounded poor!
I'm not a V8 purist, I actually prefer straight sixes in most circumstances, but a bland turbocharged engine like this... no amount of tweaking or trick exhausts will make it sound notably better than a 335i let alone as good as an E46 M3 or an old E28/E34 M5, E24 M635CSi etc. Mazda has proved that you can pass all the current emissions standards without resorting to forced induction - so why is even M division doing it? It's a cop-out, a cheaper way of doing things, that's all.No one that has driven the new M3/M4 has had a single word of complaint about the engine??
As for the loss of V8s, look at environmental issues (and financial penalties) and look at 60% fuel consumption despite a higher performance engine. The loss of V8 soundtrack is a great shame but there is more than enough to compensate....and no petrol BMW-6 has ever sounded poor!
Amirhussain - let's see your reasoned counter-arguments rather than childish insults.
E65Ross said:
Amirhussain said:
RoverP6B said:
Chris Harris said:
PunterCam said:
Very plain cars, quite dull. Without the exciting and slightly exotic engines of old, I don't see why you'd buy one of these over a turbo diesel.
Look up 'uninformed' in the dictionary, and this is now the new definition. ...and where in all this does the RS4 fit in? That Audi V8 engine is an absolute peach. How long is that going to last, though...
ks....Designing bespoke engines isn't particularly cheap and often pointless if you have a versatile and good base to start with.
Chris Harris said:
PunterCam said:
Very plain cars, quite dull. Without the exciting and slightly exotic engines of old, I don't see why you'd buy one of these over a turbo diesel.
Look up 'uninformed' in the dictionary, and this is now the new definition. I don't really get why people seem to think the S55 is any less bespoke than, say, the S54? That was basically just an M54 on steroids, as was the S50B32 and M50. Same bare block, same basic cylinder head design AFAIK.
Edited by ManOpener on Monday 12th May 13:13
Basic architecture is one thing, but there were always enough differences for it to feel very different - the S54 had wider-bore cylinders and a compacted graphite iron block compared to the all-alloy M54, for example. I remain to be convinced that this will feel noticeably different to a 335i.
Regardless of the bespoke argument, the fact that this is turbocharged completely undermines its M-car status. Add in fake noise and fake steering and you may as well drive a video game. I want a car to be real, to feel and sound mechanical. That means no DCT, no low-pressure turbos, no electric steering and no synthesised engine sound.
Regardless of the bespoke argument, the fact that this is turbocharged completely undermines its M-car status. Add in fake noise and fake steering and you may as well drive a video game. I want a car to be real, to feel and sound mechanical. That means no DCT, no low-pressure turbos, no electric steering and no synthesised engine sound.
RoverP6B said:
I remain to be convinced that this will feel noticeably different to a 335i.
Forgive my scepticism, but based on your previous comments on vehicles you have absolutely no expereince of, I don't think your personal opinions hold any weight at all. The majority of the early reviews seem to suggest it feels noticeably different to a 335i, what additional insight and experience do you actually have of the engine and car package to justify disagreeing?If you want an analogue car, go buy a classic or a low-volume sports car. The overwhelming majority of people who have an interest in fast saloons want a high-performance daily driver that's equally as home on the motorway and on a b-road, and in some cases can do the odd track day. They're not designed to be Caterhams and it' idiotic to pretend that they are.
RoverP6B said:
E65Ross said:
Well, his 1st sentence about saying it's not a bespoke engine is wrong. It even says in the article! I stopped reading after that.
The block and head are exactly the same as in a 3/435i from what I've read.Ares said:
What is most important for an M-Car? the Car/drive or the Engineering? Is a fully bespoke engine worth paying an extra £10-20k for?
No one that has driven the new M3/M4 has had a single word of complaint about the engine??
As for the loss of V8s, look at environmental issues (and financial penalties) and look at 60% fuel consumption despite a higher performance engine. The loss of V8 soundtrack is a great shame but there is more than enough to compensate....and no petrol BMW-6 has ever sounded poor!
I'm not a V8 purist, I actually prefer straight sixes in most circumstances, but a bland turbocharged engine like this... no amount of tweaking or trick exhausts will make it sound notably better than a 335i let alone as good as an E46 M3 or an old E28/E34 M5, E24 M635CSi etc. Mazda has proved that you can pass all the current emissions standards without resorting to forced induction - so why is even M division doing it? It's a cop-out, a cheaper way of doing things, that's all.No one that has driven the new M3/M4 has had a single word of complaint about the engine??
As for the loss of V8s, look at environmental issues (and financial penalties) and look at 60% fuel consumption despite a higher performance engine. The loss of V8 soundtrack is a great shame but there is more than enough to compensate....and no petrol BMW-6 has ever sounded poor!
Amirhussain - let's see your reasoned counter-arguments rather than childish insults.
And cost IS a factor. or would YOU pay an extra £20k (plus hiked running costs) to have a bespoke V8?
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