2 young guys killed in Austrian Alps racing. Came off a clif

[heebeegeetee]

greygoose said:

heebeegeetee said:

SirTK said:

Age has given me a bit of a phobia about unguarded or badly guarded mountain roads. Didn't bother me in the past but I'm now conscious that a front wheel puncture (or whatever) could have me plunging to an ugly death.

Eh?

Seems pretty self explanatory, what do you not follow?

Well, bloody hell, living in the UK you're hardly likely to encounter any are you, unless you specifically go out of your way to go to one.

I also think that punctures are rare, punctures which pull the car off line are even more rare and the odds of it happening on a mountain pass to a uk resident must be just short of incalcuable.

[allergictocheese]

Watching the FB video, it unfortunately looked like an accident waiting to happen. At least the passenger willingly took on the risk.

[Kieranrob]

hora said:

Was it Pikes Peak? The rally car that went over and they survived. Dont think it was 1000ft though and for you to be thrown from normal belts.

Someone mentioned is this TV news worthy? Yes if it reminds Brits of the dangers (we know it but when you see an event so starkly it should help slow some people down and even if it prevents just one other such tragedy fine)

I completely agree that it should be all over the news. I have driven on these roads and I know when I go on my next euro trip I will have this accident on the back of my mind and it will make me more cautious.

[heebeegeetee]

I shall be all over roads like this later in the year, marshalling on a classic car rally, which unlike the event these guys were on, has genuinely competitive regularity sections (which does not involve speed).

Should anything happen on the event which makes the news, I think I can look forward to more fairy stories of illegal racing. :rollleyes:

[EricE]

The Spruce goose said:

would a roll cage make any difference.

One of the first things i asked myself when I saw those pictures. Without knowing the circumstances I suspect you would have needed a massive complete motorsport roll cage with a bucket seat, harness, helmet and HANS to survive this, the average "clubsport rollbar" for the street likely wouldn't have made much of a difference.

[Super Slo Mo]

EricE said:

The Spruce goose said:

would a roll cage make any difference.

One of the first things i asked myself when I saw those pictures. Without knowing the circumstances I suspect you would have needed a massive complete motorsport roll cage to survive this, the average "clubsport rollbar" for the street likely wouldn't have made much of a difference.

Thing is though, a roll cage might stop the shell collapsing, but the impact forces from the drop might still be sufficient to kill the occupants. Even fully harnessed and helmeted, it might not be enough.

[Cheggers]

I'm reading this thread with a sense overwhelming sadness. I do share a natural inquisitiveness, probably like most people, wanting to find out how this happened. What were the circumstances? Sometimes you can square an event when you know exactly what happened.

But really, that does not matter. 2 young men were tragically killed participating in their passion.

Is it fair to speculate on what happened? I guess that's the forum the internet provides. *Anything* could have happened on that road. Exit a corner, you find a van overtaking a bicycle, you have nowhere to go. A sheep, a goat. A miscalculation. It doesn't matter. 2 lives were lost. 2 very happy guys who had their entire lives ahead of them. So. Very. Sad.

[heebeegeetee]

Super Slo Mo said:

EricE said:

The Spruce goose said:

would a roll cage make any difference.

One of the first things i asked myself when I saw those pictures. Without knowing the circumstances I suspect you would have needed a massive complete motorsport roll cage to survive this, the average "clubsport rollbar" for the street likely wouldn't have made much of a difference.

Thing is though, a roll cage might stop the shell collapsing, but the impact forces from the drop might still be sufficient to kill the occupants. Even fully harnessed and helmeted, it might not be enough.

Hold on a minute, if the driving is likely to be so bad that all this equipment is thought necessary, what are they doing on the road in the first place, and what are they going to do to protect anyone they might hit?

[Super Slo Mo]

heebeegeetee said:

Super Slo Mo said:

EricE said:

The Spruce goose said:

would a roll cage make any difference.

One of the first things i asked myself when I saw those pictures. Without knowing the circumstances I suspect you would have needed a massive complete motorsport roll cage to survive this, the average "clubsport rollbar" for the street likely wouldn't have made much of a difference.

Thing is though, a roll cage might stop the shell collapsing, but the impact forces from the drop might still be sufficient to kill the occupants. Even fully harnessed and helmeted, it might not be enough.

Hold on a minute, if the driving is likely to be so bad that all this equipment is thought necessary, what are they doing on the road in the first place, and what are they going to do to protect anyone they might hit?

Well yes, exactly.

Watching that video, it didn't look as bad as I was expecting, but the camera is great for masking apparent speeds. It was only when the comment about '100 mph' was made that I realised just how quickly they were going.
I'm all for enjoying the performance of my car/bike, but there's a time and a place, and a limit for that matter.
Having said that, I was young and daft once as, I suspect, were most people on this site. When I was 17 I wrote off my mother's car by driving way beyond my and the car's limits. I was lucky, 2 feet further left at the point of impact and I'd not be here today.

[Undinist]

When I said upthread that a modded car makes an accident "unsurprising" I wasn't trying to make a definitive statement that modded cars are dangerous. I apologise if it comes across that way - I should have chosen my words better.

The truth is that none of us know what happened. Maybe the guy was driving like Stig, carefully feeding in his extra power to just before the point where the wheels spin. Maybe he lost control because of an undiagnosed hole in the heart or an allergic reaction to an Alpine insect bite.

But it's correct to say that modding is a risk factor, just as you would include the driver's age and gender on the list of risk factors. And DIY modding, by a self-taught mechanic, might well be a bigger risk factor than buying a car which has had proven mods made by a previous owner...because if you take the car on a trip part of the fun is testing your mods. Yer average modder in these situations is likely to cane the motor now and again, not just cruise along at low revs.

[anonymous-user]

The thing I find worrying is the filming of these things. It was only a couple of months ago we saw footage from a Sunday blast in the same brand of car.

A very sad thing to happen to a couple of good lads and my thoughts go out to their family and friends.

[Escort3500]

Cheggers said:

I'm reading this thread with a sense overwhelming sadness. I do share a natural inquisitiveness, probably like most people, wanting to find out how this happened. What were the circumstances? Sometimes you can square an event when you know exactly what happened.

But really, that does not matter. 2 young men were tragically killed participating in their passion.

Is it fair to speculate on what happened? I guess that's the forum the internet provides. *Anything* could have happened on that road. Exit a corner, you find a van overtaking a bicycle, you have nowhere to go. A sheep, a goat. A miscalculation. It doesn't matter. 2 lives were lost. 2 very happy guys who had their entire lives ahead of them. So. Very. Sad.

Best post on this thread so far; a thread that (with the exception of a couple of bickering schoolkids) reflects the enthusiasm of our collective passion for cars and driving and the chilling reality of what the consequences are if it all goes wrong. RIP lads

[hornetrider]

^^ agree.

I'm not looking forward to the follow up articles when the mail gets hold of these videos though.

[TVRJAS]

Condolences to the family's and friends of what was to be a driving adventure with memories to last a life time to turn so tragic.

The video does show they were driving with some adrenaline on roads they clearly wouldn't be familiar with,at 2.18 you can hear the tyres screeching with barriers at that point that doesn't look to me like it would of stopped them at such speed.

If keeping the video active/live helps other car enthusiasts or friends see the potential of what can happen when we all think it won't happen to us then I hope the video remains active.

There are many video's on the tube of this very road and I watched a few to get a better idea of what the road entails rather than just a 3.34 clip. I came across several incidences where cars are overtaking cyclists or slower vehicles and crashes were only just avoided.

From watching these my judgement would not condone the driver for his lack of talent from watching a short 3.34 clip as they clearly show the many dangers that the road brings. At the point where they left the road it could of been due to the misfortune of oncoming traffic or some other hazard.

However.... If their journey involved driving that was compatible to the 3.34 clip over the full period of their journey on roads unknown to them,then the phrase "An accident waiting to happen" springs too mind.

[Durzel]

Weren't they ejected from the car? Maybe harnesses would've helped there but as said they probably wouldn't have survived the impact even if the shell remained mostly intact.

Neither seem particularly reckless, just seems like a couple of decent lads who enjoy their cars driving too fast for their car/experience. Happens to many, particularly young men, but when you add a road like this into the equation death or serious injury is all but guaranteed.

That video though, it almost plays like one of those Police infomercials where the driver describes exactly what's about to happen to him. Some of the comments made for quite a grim portent.

[Mr2Mike]

This probably won't go down very well, but a good friend of mine was in the same group as these lads and said they were driving like cocks most of the time.

[herewego]

Mr2Mike said:

This probably won't go down very well, but a good friend of mine was in the same group as these lads and said they were driving like cocks most of the time.

Any idea what you have to do to win the rally?

[bridgdav]

Mr2Mike said:

This probably won't go down very well, but a good friend of mine was in the same group as these lads and said they were driving like cocks most of the time.

Quite likely.. After watching the Video, if these guys need to drive like that to get their adrenaline pumping on a beautiful mountain road like the Grossglockner, then how would they get their thrills whilst driving around the English cities or countryside.

I have driven through the Zell am See valley to the top of the Grossglockner and it was slightly terrifying.
RIP boys, but glad they didn't take any innocents with them on their inevitable journey.

[DonkeyApple]

[redacted]

[zarjaz1991]

MarshPhantom said:

The video isn't that bad, what have I missed?-

The fact that they were driving far too fast for the road they were on, and neither the driver nor the car were able to cope with it. How many times did the tyres screech round those bends? Really don't want to be doing that with a sheer drop to your right - as they tragically found out.

As others have pointed out, that video is almost like a portent of doom. You wouldn't be surprised if it had actually gone on to show the moment they went over the edge, so inevitable is it from watching it.

So very sad.