RE: BMW M4 GTS - full details
Discussion
Guvernator said:
Amirhussain said:
Yeah because the E46 CSL flew outta the showrooms...
I think BMW where ahead of their time and no-one really got the CSL when it was first released. Now of course they are only going up in value as people realise what a corker they made. I think the world would be A LOT more receptive to a new CSL now.Ride on the praise of the 1M and sell a lot of M2s.
Olivera said:
You seem to be getting confused with this whole subject, so let me clarify things for you.
When we talk about cars being a 'good investment' we generally do not mean an investment in the literal sense, i.e. making a positive return on capital once costs are deducted. We are instead categorising a car which has very slow depreciation when compared with peers.
Does that help?
In today's market, a lot of people are buying cars as actual investments - investments as in the actual english language definition of the word, not the Olivera definition. I can't say I have heard many people use the phrase 'good investment' - when referring to cars, watches, bonds or anything else for that matter - to describe something that goes down in value, but not as rapidly as something else. That seems a very dangerous definition.When we talk about cars being a 'good investment' we generally do not mean an investment in the literal sense, i.e. making a positive return on capital once costs are deducted. We are instead categorising a car which has very slow depreciation when compared with peers.
Does that help?
But ultimately, quite possibly a good underlying point. Though if you factor in cost of capital, increased maintenance costs, massively reduced liquidity and so on, would you really be better off buying the M4 GTS vs a regular M4? I'm not sure.
sealtt said:
I can only presume this is a dummy account set up by a desperate BMW rep, troubled by the way this thread has gone.
The E30 M3 Evo has barely kept up with inflation, certainly a long way off being a good investment and almost certainly a net loser when you consider cost of holding (e.g. maintenance, cost of capital, etc). The notion of an M4 GTS being a money printer is absolutely laughable, it will never get close to a positive net real-money gain.
LOL im no BMW rep but i do work for supercar dealer and although i personally dont see this car being worth 120k (even when new) ive been in this business long enough to know there are far too many people out there that will pay this sort of money for its exclusivity.The E30 M3 Evo has barely kept up with inflation, certainly a long way off being a good investment and almost certainly a net loser when you consider cost of holding (e.g. maintenance, cost of capital, etc). The notion of an M4 GTS being a money printer is absolutely laughable, it will never get close to a positive net real-money gain.
You may not be one of them fine but the fact is people will pay this and more. Like i said in my earlier post give it 10yrs and these will be selling for a kings ransom.
Bmw fan here through and through but that price ?
What a joke !
They'll sell out as there is plenty of money in the car world but honestly, what a rip off.
Nasty wheels (at that price why are they not a beautiful bespoke Fuchs design ?)
Suspect independants can squeeze near 500hp from a stock car for probably 500 of your
English pounds.
Yes, as you can tell, I'm not sold on it.
What a joke !
They'll sell out as there is plenty of money in the car world but honestly, what a rip off.
Nasty wheels (at that price why are they not a beautiful bespoke Fuchs design ?)
Suspect independants can squeeze near 500hp from a stock car for probably 500 of your
English pounds.
Yes, as you can tell, I'm not sold on it.
Trying too hard.
IMO they ballsed it up with the E92 M3 GTS and they have done the same here too.
If they stripped it back and made it less 'OTT' to look at and charged maybe £20k extra (like the E46 CSL) it would have been a winner.
I'm sure these will sell but I fear they'll just be tucked away by collectors.
IMO they ballsed it up with the E92 M3 GTS and they have done the same here too.
If they stripped it back and made it less 'OTT' to look at and charged maybe £20k extra (like the E46 CSL) it would have been a winner.
I'm sure these will sell but I fear they'll just be tucked away by collectors.
Much as I love my 2 BMW's, both E-46, one a 320i Motorsport Coupe, the other a 330i Convertible, I cannot understand why anyone would spend over £100k on any 3/4 series today. My two cars cost me £3k each and are great value, low mileage, reliable daily drives still serviced by Ocean BMW. If I had £100k to spend then most of your readers choices have appeal.
Schermerhorn said:
IMO they ballsed it up with the E92 M3 GTS and they have done the same here too.
If they stripped it back and made it less 'OTT' to look at and charged maybe £20k extra (like the E46 CSL) it would have been a winner.
Completely agree on both counts and I was hoping they weren't going to do the same again as they did with the E92 M3 GTS. If they stripped it back and made it less 'OTT' to look at and charged maybe £20k extra (like the E46 CSL) it would have been a winner.
This is so lazy and a great case of the accounting department leading the engineers. The CSL was cutting edge for BMW with the use of composites but this is just tat. There was an M event in Berlin a couple of years ago and speaking to the engineers they stated some of their favourite M cars as the E39 M5, CSL and E34 M5. Many seemed almost just accepting about what's coming out now rather than enthusiastic.
I definitely don't think it's guaranteed this will retain its value or will be a great investment. The F80 has received a lukewarm reception and depending on the next generation this could be well be an ugly duckling of the M3's. Don't forget BMW couldn't shift CSL's and they were far from coveted until people realised there won't be another like it. 10 years ago you could pick up a new CSL for less than a new 46M convertible.
This is a turbocharged obese coupe with a big wing, plenty of others out there that do the job better. Also the M brand is far more diluted now that it ever has been so against investing in that brand seems risky.
I definitely don't think it's guaranteed this will retain its value or will be a great investment. The F80 has received a lukewarm reception and depending on the next generation this could be well be an ugly duckling of the M3's. Don't forget BMW couldn't shift CSL's and they were far from coveted until people realised there won't be another like it. 10 years ago you could pick up a new CSL for less than a new 46M convertible.
This is a turbocharged obese coupe with a big wing, plenty of others out there that do the job better. Also the M brand is far more diluted now that it ever has been so against investing in that brand seems risky.
Edited by Babw on Wednesday 7th October 18:58
Schermerhorn said:
IMO they ballsed it up with the E92 M3 GTS and they have done the same here too.
If they stripped it back and made it less 'OTT' to look at and charged maybe £20k extra (like the E46 CSL) it would have been a winner.
Yes logic would dictate that, but the CSL was a sales disaster the GTS wasn't and even though I agree with you this will sell out as well but then again they only have to find 30 UK buyers... If they stripped it back and made it less 'OTT' to look at and charged maybe £20k extra (like the E46 CSL) it would have been a winner.
Wills2 said:
Schermerhorn said:
IMO they ballsed it up with the E92 M3 GTS and they have done the same here too.
If they stripped it back and made it less 'OTT' to look at and charged maybe £20k extra (like the E46 CSL) it would have been a winner.
Yes logic would dictate that, but the CSL was a sales disaster the GTS wasn't and even though I agree with you this will sell out as well but then again they only have to find 30 UK buyers... If they stripped it back and made it less 'OTT' to look at and charged maybe £20k extra (like the E46 CSL) it would have been a winner.
The E92 M3, IMO, went a bit too far with its pricing (nearly 2.5 times the amount of a standard E92 M3 coupe!) despite not being as good as any of its contemporary Porsche rivals and this again is of the same mould. There are also AMGs with the same power as this at half the price which makes the M4 GTS look like a rip off too.
I think if BMW don't make too many variations (the E92 M3 had XYZ special edition, frozen paint edition, CRT version, too many body styles etc etc etc) then this could become a classic down the line but at £120k its 911 GT3 territory and I bet it isn't as good to drive at the Porsche.
Just my 2 cents.
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