The new type r - is it a sales flop?
Discussion
I saw a metallic blue one in a Honda showroom and just fell in love with it. I quite like subtle and this is anything but, however, it just screamed performance.
In contrast, I fell asleep looking at a Golf R and the Focus RS looks as dull as dishwater and could have been any model from their respective ranges. I'm 57.
Dull, dull, dull design. Even the STs are getting harder to spot until you see the little badge.
In contrast, I fell asleep looking at a Golf R and the Focus RS looks as dull as dishwater and could have been any model from their respective ranges. I'm 57.
Dull, dull, dull design. Even the STs are getting harder to spot until you see the little badge.
funkyrobot said:
Bonkers, isn't it.
Hot hatch prices being anywhere near £30k is madness.
I must admit that I do like the look of the new Type R. Things like the Golf R (which seems to have a very fat front and tiny bum) do nothing for me.
Hot hatches have never been so cheap in real terms, ie inflation corrected. £25k for new M135i with superb std spec and a couple of options. 325hp, I6, Brembo 4-pots etc... Bargain IMO.Hot hatch prices being anywhere near £30k is madness.
I must admit that I do like the look of the new Type R. Things like the Golf R (which seems to have a very fat front and tiny bum) do nothing for me.
T1547 said:
Isn't it just about 15 years too late? Max Power looks and an interior straight from any 90's jap car.
Honda don't seem to have been able to modernise their designs in the same way as their competition.
+1Honda don't seem to have been able to modernise their designs in the same way as their competition.
On the subject of 'cheap' Golf Rs and today's 'expensive' halo models, I remember reading an article in Autocar many moons ago where Steve Sutcliffe wrote a piece on the cost to the company of producing a 911 Turbo against a base model 911. My memory might be a bit off but I'm sure the ratio was something like an additional £40-50k in selling price against a cost price of around £7-10k.*
Given that sales numbers mitigate manufacturing costs through scale, I wouldn't be surprised to find that VW played a (profit) blinder in releasing so many Rs onto the market...
- At the time I wondered how those figures (accepting that mine are not accurate, but indicative) ever hit the mainstream motoring press.
SidewaysSi said:
Not entirely sure the roads are filled with Renaults or Seats either are they? People like the Golf for the image. And they love a cheap Golf even more. The ability of the car has very little to do with it if they can save a few quid.
If the Golf was a bag of s
t, it would still sell. As was seen with the MkIV.
You sort of missed my point. The Seat and the Megane are arguable more accomplished at what Honda set out and they also manage to look normal yet, as you point out, they still aren't that popular. So how can we possibly expect the 3rd fastest car which also happens to be an absolute munter to be a sales hit?If the Golf was a bag of s
t, it would still sell. As was seen with the MkIV.I'm fed up seeing the word "golf".
T1547 said:
Isn't it just about 15 years too late? Max Power looks and an interior straight from any 90's jap car.
Honda don't seem to have been able to modernise their designs in the same way as their competition.
In fairness to Honda they are that used to making dull and ordinary cars that it was always going to be a stretch to build something exciting and make it look good as well I reckon. Honda don't seem to have been able to modernise their designs in the same way as their competition.
It was just a step too far for them sadly.
Jimmy Recard said:
I think Honda does pretty badly as a brand. Most people I know wouldn't consider one because they see it as a car for old people. And being Japanese doesn't really help its cause, does it?
But I see 'Type R' as almost a separate brand to Honda. Surely no one associates Type R with older people. There's a lot of history with Type R and other fast Hondas that have gone before, and I reckon it's that that's attractive to the younger crowd. IMO it's very close to what M means to BMW (I am not suggesting Type R badged cars are on a level with proper M cars).This car is still at least £5k too much though.
Edited by RenOHH on Thursday 21st April 23:45
nunpuncher said:
You sort of missed my point. The Seat and the Megane are arguable more accomplished at what Honda set out and they also manage to look normal yet, as you point out, they still aren't that popular. So how can we possibly expect the 3rd fastest car which also happens to be an absolute munter to be a sales hit?
I'm fed up seeing the word "golf".
Honda: 7 minutes 50 secondsI'm fed up seeing the word "golf".
Renault: 7 minutes 54 seconds
SEAT: 7 minutes 58 seconds
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrbu...
Videos are available online, you are talking a load of b
ks that could have been avoided with about a minutes research.Basic car is £29,999, it's the GT that is over thirty grand, as an aside. I'm not sure what the spec differences are, however.
EDIT: I can't spell.
Edited by Axionknight on Friday 22 April 08:10
I, for one, am happy the car exists even if it does divide opinion. It's a refreshing alternative to have on the landscape compared to some of the fairly anodyne German alternatives. Even Mercedes are now becoming a bit lairy, the A45 AMG can be specced in questionable configurations if you so please.
To me it's great that the car exists at all, it at least signals intent from Honda to return to making performance cars and that's something we should all celebrate. I am not a huge fan of this car, or the new NSX, but I hope they both sell well so that Honda continue to be a player in the performance car landscape.
I have seen about two or three of these in the wild, and think they look a bit better in the flesh than pictures. My other half recently bought an FN2 Type R, unfortunately I am not sure she'll get one of these. Her car is great because unless you knew your Hondas, you wouldn't know what it was - making it great for blending in the work car park.
I had heard from our dealer that there were teething troubles with the early cars though, so people who pre-ordered one got them on release day, but everyone else had to wait.
To me it's great that the car exists at all, it at least signals intent from Honda to return to making performance cars and that's something we should all celebrate. I am not a huge fan of this car, or the new NSX, but I hope they both sell well so that Honda continue to be a player in the performance car landscape.
I have seen about two or three of these in the wild, and think they look a bit better in the flesh than pictures. My other half recently bought an FN2 Type R, unfortunately I am not sure she'll get one of these. Her car is great because unless you knew your Hondas, you wouldn't know what it was - making it great for blending in the work car park.
I had heard from our dealer that there were teething troubles with the early cars though, so people who pre-ordered one got them on release day, but everyone else had to wait.
JackReacher said:
Brand snobbery pure and simple, both directly in choice of vehicle and indirectly in its impact on residuals and therefore lease deals.
I don’t think you can put it down to wild styling, the Leon Cupra has the same problem and that looks very discreet in comparison. Both cars get good write ups and should be selling well. Back when the EP3 and original Leon Cupra sold in big numbers, people still had Mondeos and Vectras as company cars, now most people want a prestigious German brand to give themselves and other people comfort that they are doing well in life.
The knock on effect on reduced depreciation of the German brands and availability of cheap finance have fuelled the lease deals which the less prestigious manufacturers will struggle to match, not because they can’t offer good finance, but because their residuals are less strong.
It’s a shame, but that’s the market.
Thread^^I don’t think you can put it down to wild styling, the Leon Cupra has the same problem and that looks very discreet in comparison. Both cars get good write ups and should be selling well. Back when the EP3 and original Leon Cupra sold in big numbers, people still had Mondeos and Vectras as company cars, now most people want a prestigious German brand to give themselves and other people comfort that they are doing well in life.
The knock on effect on reduced depreciation of the German brands and availability of cheap finance have fuelled the lease deals which the less prestigious manufacturers will struggle to match, not because they can’t offer good finance, but because their residuals are less strong.
It’s a shame, but that’s the market.
Completely right. Nothing but brand snobbery
Baryonyx said:
I really like the Civic Type R. It seems to be pitched to a different market than the Golf R, which seems to be sold off the back of some very low monthly payments on lease deals. As happens, I see about four or five Golf R's on the road for every single competitor car. It has the perfect combination of badge appeal and low cost. I wonder what the residual values will be like in comparison to the market predictions considering how many will be dumped off after three years. Funny that the quad exhausts on the Golf R look more like the sort of dodgy barry-boy modification that the Civic is criticised for. The Golf R looks relatively handsome, if a little staid and anodyne; those exhausts look utterly incongruous.
As for the Civic, it does have the might of Honda's engineering and technical expertise behind them. They've got that advantage over the competition. The previous Civic Type R models were head and shoulders above their competition in terms of build qualityand reliability. Honda really know about cohesive, engineeeing led design. I really rate that quality about them and the fact that the new CTR is so wild to look at is quite surprising! I can't remember the last time the hot hatch market was this exciting.
Hmmmmmmm As for the Civic, it does have the might of Honda's engineering and technical expertise behind them. They've got that advantage over the competition. The previous Civic Type R models were head and shoulders above their competition in terms of build qualityand reliability. Honda really know about cohesive, engineeeing led design. I really rate that quality about them and the fact that the new CTR is so wild to look at is quite surprising! I can't remember the last time the hot hatch market was this exciting.
Not sure how accurate the numbers are for new registrations are on howmanyleft but the Golf R has been hitting around 2k cars registered per year with the mark 7, this is about the same as the mark 1 and 2 Focus RS (too soon to tell with the mark 3), both did about half what the older Type-Rs did as they hit around 4k cars a year at their peak. The Leons hit between 1k and 1.4k per year at their peak.
I'm not seeing anything other than a flavour of the month here, hot hatch buyers move to what is seen as the latest and greatest/most popular.
I'm not seeing anything other than a flavour of the month here, hot hatch buyers move to what is seen as the latest and greatest/most popular.
Atmospheric said:
JackReacher said:
Brand snobbery pure and simple, both directly in choice of vehicle and indirectly in its impact on residuals and therefore lease deals.
I don’t think you can put it down to wild styling, the Leon Cupra has the same problem and that looks very discreet in comparison. Both cars get good write ups and should be selling well. Back when the EP3 and original Leon Cupra sold in big numbers, people still had Mondeos and Vectras as company cars, now most people want a prestigious German brand to give themselves and other people comfort that they are doing well in life.
The knock on effect on reduced depreciation of the German brands and availability of cheap finance have fuelled the lease deals which the less prestigious manufacturers will struggle to match, not because they can’t offer good finance, but because their residuals are less strong.
It’s a shame, but that’s the market.
Thread^^I don’t think you can put it down to wild styling, the Leon Cupra has the same problem and that looks very discreet in comparison. Both cars get good write ups and should be selling well. Back when the EP3 and original Leon Cupra sold in big numbers, people still had Mondeos and Vectras as company cars, now most people want a prestigious German brand to give themselves and other people comfort that they are doing well in life.
The knock on effect on reduced depreciation of the German brands and availability of cheap finance have fuelled the lease deals which the less prestigious manufacturers will struggle to match, not because they can’t offer good finance, but because their residuals are less strong.
It’s a shame, but that’s the market.
Completely right. Nothing but brand snobbery
Daston said:
For me the model released does not look as good as the concept that was shown, no rear lights built into the spoiler, the tail lights are just as ugly as the standard car and the wheels look lost in the arches. Plus the way they have designed the rear gives an optical illusion that the rear wheels are much smaller than the fronts, just looks a little odd.
You know, you're right. Picture 10 on this link below makes it look like it has space savers on the back.hornetrider said:
Having said that, I sat in one at Brayley Honda in Bushey the other day and the seats are the best seats I've ever sat in by a country mile. The interior (rear) space is incredible (probably helped by being FWD).Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff