RE: New Porsche Cayman R Revealed

[Beefmeister]

sledge68 said:

you can go 911 baiting in a legacy gtb, carrera 4 s dealt with on sunday along the a3

Well i bet the Porsche driver was incensed with rage and embarrassment. I bet he went home, killed his wife in anger, then burnt the C4S to a crisp with her bloodied, lifeless body inside.


Or maybe, just maybe, he was quite happy in his lovely Porsche and didn't give a crap that someone in a Subaru 'dealt with him'...

Edited by Beefmeister on Wednesday 17th November 16:12

[Stu R]

Beefmeister said:

sledge68 said:

you can go 911 baiting in a legacy gtb, carrera 4 s dealt with on sunday along the a3

Well i bet the Porsche driver was incensed with rage and embarrassment. I bet he went home, killed his wife in anger, then burnt the C4S to a crisp with her bloodied, lifeless body inside.


Or maybe, just maybe, he was quite happy in his lovely Porsche and didn't give a crap that someone in a Subaru 'dealt with him'...

Edited by Beefmeister on Wednesday 17th November 16:12

Succinct

[zakelwe]

RobM77 said:

zakelwe said:

sleep envy said:

zakelwe said:

You don't really need air con in the UK unless you are a salesman worried about sweaty pits, not sure why people are so soft nowadays.

have you spent many summer days in a rear/mid engined car with little or no sound deadening / heatshield?

it's not pleasant

None at all.

I have worked in Kuwait though where temps do actually get more than the 35-40C max you will get in a car typically during a british summer. Don't be such big girls blouses. You'll be complaining next the noise hurts your ears

Everyone's different, don't forget that. Some people (like me) like the heat and are ok without air con in England. However, some people can't stand it and for them air con is essential.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 17th November 13:03

Very true. It does keeps one's Top Deck Shandies cool when you are driving back from Guildford Waitrose as well doesn't it.

Northern Andy

[sledge68]

Porsche collaborated with Subaru in the development of the Legacy GTB.

Maybe if i said i had out performed him in my integrale i would get a different comment?

Beefmeister said:

sledge68 said:

you can go 911 baiting in a legacy gtb, carrera 4 s dealt with on sunday along the a3

Well i bet the Porsche driver was incensed with rage and embarrassment. I bet he went home, killed his wife in anger, then burnt the C4S to a crisp with her bloodied, lifeless body inside.


Or maybe, just maybe, he was quite happy in his lovely Porsche and didn't give a crap that someone in a Subaru 'dealt with him'...

Edited by Beefmeister on Wednesday 17th November 16:12

[RobM77]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I don't see why the things I mentioned for improvement on the Cayman couldn't be applied to the standard Cayman and S models. The GT3 is another step on, and really a fast road and track day car, I was thinking more of improvements for the standard model. I don't think steering feel, a responsive throttle or a better driving position are "hardcore" - they're just things I would expect from Porsche but which they don't deliver.

[Beefmeister]

sledge68 said:

Porsche collaborated with Subaru in the development of the Legacy GTB.

Maybe if i said i had out performed him in my integrale i would get a different comment?

Beefmeister said:

sledge68 said:

you can go 911 baiting in a legacy gtb, carrera 4 s dealt with on sunday along the a3

Well i bet the Porsche driver was incensed with rage and embarrassment. I bet he went home, killed his wife in anger, then burnt the C4S to a crisp with her bloodied, lifeless body inside.


Or maybe, just maybe, he was quite happy in his lovely Porsche and didn't give a crap that someone in a Subaru 'dealt with him'...

I shall repost what i said earlier today, as it's fitting...

Earlier I said:

• <- the point______________________________________________you ->

[Great Pretender]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Despite my protestations to the contrary earlier, I'm inclined to agree.

I guess the Cayman was and always will be entry level Porsche to which its buyers cut their respective teeth on before progressing to the 911.

All this crap about the 911 not handling 'correctly' is irrelevant; it's the top model and that's how it will stay.

To argue differently is akin to suggesting BMW should make an M3 which which is more powerful than the M5, or Land Rover making a Freelander which is better off road than its Range Rover cousins. It simply won't happen. Yes it would be nice to be able to think that one's Rolls Royce Ghost was a better car in every way than the bigger and more expensive Phantom, but to consider such, is missing the point entirely.

All those who don't understand this concept, need to go back to school.

[RobM77]

Great Pretender said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Despite my protestations to the contrary earlier, I'm inclined to agree.

I guess the Cayman was and always will be entry level Porsche to which its buyers cut their respective teeth on before progressing to the 911.

All this crap about the 911 not handling 'correctly' is irrelevant; it's the top model and that's how it will stay.

To argue differently is akin to suggesting BMW should make an M3 which which is more powerful than the M5, or Land Rover making a Freelander which is better off road than its Range Rover cousins. It simply won't happen. Yes it would be nice to be able to think that one's Rolls Royce Ghost was a better car in every way than the bigger and more expensive Phantom, but to consider such, is missing the point entirely.

All those who don't understand this concept, need to go back to school.

I agree with you both regarding the Cayman, although for me personally the performance doesn't really come into it, for a road car it's the driving experience that interests me.

With regard to the M5 being more powerful than the M3 though, that's just because the M5 weighs more I've never considered the M5 to be more sporting, better or faster in any way than the M3. Again, with Landrover, aren't the cheaper Defenders better off road than the more expensive Range Rovers? I honestly can't think of another company who limit one of their products to prevent it being better than another, most companies rely on the reasons they have two different products in the first place. What makes Porsche different again is that the 911 is an icon because of its history. The unusual situation Porsche are in, which attracts all this criticism, is that this icon does actually have a fairly unusual layout which could potentially be "bettered" by another car designed from the ground up, like the Cayman. Most other companies don't have product lines like this - they just have base, mid and top spec etc, and these are re-launched every so often. Imagine if Intel had an iconic CPU that they couldn't better, so when they bring out their new line up CPUs in January, they mustn't be quicker or better than this older design! That's the weird situation that Porsche are in. I respect and understand their opinion to guard against this icon that is the 911 by keeping it as the fastest model, but criticism of that decision is only natural.

Personally, my only gripes are not to do with performance. If Porsche produced a 250bhp Cayman with decent steering feel, driving position, throttle response etc, I'd buy it, even in preference to a 450bhp Cayman with an LSD - this is a road car, and as such performance is a fair way down my list of priorities.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 17th November 16:44

[TomTVR500]

I really really REALLY wish Porsche would stop messing about giving the Cayman insignificant little power upgrades. I mean come on 10bhp over the Cayman S. Forgeting performance for a seccond, because i accept it isnt everything. Unless Porsche have created a car that really makes the Cayman a wepon and the ultimate drivers Cayman then they have just wasted their effort on a pointless special edition and thrown an R badge down the drain. I wish Porsche would do a truly special RS version of the Cayman with the 385bhp engine from the current 911.
I understand the issue is the 911's sales may be affected (although i think Porsche enthusiasts will always want the engine in the back, so would continue to buy the 911) but this is what irritated me when the Cayman was released. They made a great drivers car but it could never really go anywhere because its stuck behind the 911 and always will be. Its a deliberately pared down car, which i dont like. Its a real shame because i think the Cayman is a fantastic car and has enormous potential.

[sledge68]

you like it, i dont, there is no need for derogatory comments,

an opinion is not wrong, its different

i was jesting about the Carrera 4S as the guy in it actually laughed as i out accelerated him off a roundabout

please refrain from being rude

its nice to be important, but more important to be nice

Beefmeister said:

sledge68 said:

Porsche collaborated with Subaru in the development of the Legacy GTB.

Maybe if i said i had out performed him in my integrale i would get a different comment?

Beefmeister said:

sledge68 said:

you can go 911 baiting in a legacy gtb, carrera 4 s dealt with on sunday along the a3

Well i bet the Porsche driver was incensed with rage and embarrassment. I bet he went home, killed his wife in anger, then burnt the C4S to a crisp with her bloodied, lifeless body inside.


Or maybe, just maybe, he was quite happy in his lovely Porsche and didn't give a crap that someone in a Subaru 'dealt with him'...

I shall repost what i said earlier today, as it's fitting...

Earlier I said:

• <- the point______________________________________________you ->

[sledge68]

60 words is hardly succinct!

Stu R said:

Beefmeister said:

sledge68 said:

you can go 911 baiting in a legacy gtb, carrera 4 s dealt with on sunday along the a3

Well i bet the Porsche driver was incensed with rage and embarrassment. I bet he went home, killed his wife in anger, then burnt the C4S to a crisp with her bloodied, lifeless body inside.


Or maybe, just maybe, he was quite happy in his lovely Porsche and didn't give a crap that someone in a Subaru 'dealt with him'...

Edited by Beefmeister on Wednesday 17th November 16:12

Succinct

[Chris_w666]

I think I struggle with the Cayman as to when one would be the ideal car to buy if you were Porsche shopping. It has some compromises over the 911 in terms of power and practicality (the latter not being a huge consideration for most I would guess) but IMO it does look very good and from some angles better than the 911. The Boxster despite the hairdresser comments also has the compromises of the Cayman but with the bonus that you can waft about with the roof off when the sun is shining. The Box has marginally less power but is also cheaper and doesn't struggle quite as much with the diluted 911 tag it once held.

Then when you compare the price of this to a new Cayman R with a few extras it makes the case for the middle model less appealing, again in my opinion.

Saying all that the one with black wheels looks very nice.

[steveq135]

At the risk of being Mr.Smarty Pants , this model is pretty much what I suspected was coming.
The bottom line is if you were in the market for an `S` you`d buy the `R` , as you couldn`t spec an `S` to the same level for the money and there are options you couldn`t get anyway like the suspension.
The shame of it is that the car doesn`t look any different from a `normal` Cayman and lacks the individuality that would differentiate it as something special.

Porsche won`t undermine the 911 , people should get over it.

[British Beef]

Decision Time........

Cayman R Vs Evora S

£52k + average extras spend £8k = £60k
Unladen weight (unladen) 1,300 kg
Power 330 hp at 7400rpm
Max. torque 370 Nm at 4,750rpm
0 - 62 mph 5.0 s
Manual Top speed 175 mph

£58k + average extras spend £5k = £63k
Vehicle mass (unladen) – 1437kg
Max power – 350 hp at 7000 rpm
Max torque – 400 Nm at 4500 rpm
0-62 km/h 4.8s
Maximum speed – 172mph

Evora S wins for me in all departments over the Cayman r and any 911 (under £80k), if 2?2 is a requirement.

Porsche needed to do much more to the "Cayman r", yet people (idiots?!?) will still stump up the cash for it, neglecting the better home grown alternative, which is a shame.

[kambites]

British Beef said:

Evora S wins for me in all departments over the Cayman r and any 911 (under £80k), if 2?2 is a requirement.

Except build quality, reliability, ergonomics, noise, looks, badge,... OK a few of those are debatable and/or personal preference, but I suspect most people would agree on most of them.

The Evora S may be a better drivers' car (I haven't driven one yet to comment, but the reviews seem to imply that it is) but as a complete ownership package, I don't think Porsche have much to worry about yet. Time will tell whether the Evora can ever really come to compete with Porsche's products.

[juansolo]

British Beef said:

Decision Time........

Evora S wins for me in all departments over the Cayman r and any 911 (under £80k), if 2?2 is a requirement.

Porsche needed to do much more to the "Cayman r", yet people (idiots?!?) will still stump up the cash for it, neglecting the better home grown alternative, which is a shame.

You can't buy them on the figures, drive 'em both and make your mind up. As extras go, just don't get click happy. What do you actually need and what is actual fluff? For both you do want to be slapping a sports exhaust on though. My money, if it wasn't for the nagging doubts on build, I'd be getting the Evora S. Based on standard Evora vs standard Cayman, it'll be the better drive. However with those doubts, I'd save myself £14k (vs the options price on a R) and get a Spyder. Obviously all personally speaking.

Edited by juansolo on Wednesday 17th November 17:06

[HAB]

RobM77 said:

I don't see why the things I mentioned for improvement on the Cayman couldn't be applied to the standard Cayman and S models. The GT3 is another step on, and really a fast road and track day car, I was thinking more of improvements for the standard model. I don't think steering feel, a responsive throttle or a better driving position are "hardcore" - they're just things I would expect from Porsche but which they don't deliver.

With respect, your repeated 'improvements' are purely opinion, and completely subjective. In fact, given from my own experiences, what I've heard first hand from Cayman owners, and the media in general; your views on the Caymans weaknesses are not one shared by very many. I've come to the conclusion they seem to be something that exist for a few on PH, but not in the real world!

Don't get me wrong - every car has much room for improvement, but it's harder to make on overall well-rounded package, than something that excels in one or two areas. And overall, as an ownership prospect the Cayman is very, very good and arguably the best in it's class. They don't really do it for me, (mainly the looks, and a little too modern/refined) but I can appreciate why they're so highly regarded.

I also find this 'They won't develop it, because it would usurp the 911' attitude distinctly odd. Nearly every marque has a model hierarchy - why on earth would Porsche be any different?

However, given the history of the 'R' moniker in Porsches history, the Cayman R is possibly one of the most cynical marketing exercises they've ever done (and that's saying something)

Edited by HAB on Wednesday 17th November 17:21

[Carl_Docklands]

The reason why Porsche only gave this car 330BHP is that the 320BHP model is already quicker than a Gen1 997 C2.

For those who say this is not a quick car well, you need to go out an actually try one of the newer ones to find out for yourselves.

The 911 will always be the aspirational car, is it the C2 a better sports car right now? probably not.

[Wills2]

sledge68 said:

Porsche collaborated with Subaru in the development of the Legacy GTB.

Maybe if i said i had out performed him in my integrale i would get a different comment?

Beefmeister said:

sledge68 said:

you can go 911 baiting in a legacy gtb, carrera 4 s dealt with on sunday along the a3

Well i bet the Porsche driver was incensed with rage and embarrassment. I bet he went home, killed his wife in anger, then burnt the C4S to a crisp with her bloodied, lifeless body inside.


Or maybe, just maybe, he was quite happy in his lovely Porsche and didn't give a crap that someone in a Subaru 'dealt with him'...

Edited by Beefmeister on Wednesday 17th November 16:12

When you say out peformed him? Do you actually mean you over took him because you were prepared to go faster than him?

I imagine he's part ex'ing it as we speak....

[steveq135]

British Beef said:

Decision Time........

Evora S wins for me in all departments over the Cayman r and any 911 (under £80k), if 2?2 is a requirement.

Porsche needed to do much more to the "Cayman r", yet people (idiots?!?) will still stump up the cash for it, neglecting the better home grown alternative, which is a shame.

Hmm , `better` in terms of ride quality and arguably handling , not so much in terms of build quality.
Comments based on having driven Cayman 2.7 and non `S` Evora.

I think to an extent the Evora doesn`t look special enough , although the fact that there seem to be so few of them on the road undermines my assertion somewhat.
The Cayman looks like all other Caymans so no joy on that front , but it is a lot less money than an Evora.

How do Lotus manage to make a car with an aluminium monocoque and plastic body heavier than a conventionally built car of comparative dimensions ??