Do you need anything more than a 320d?

[Welshbeef]

RobM77 said:

All fair points, and I guess this comes down to what you value in a car. The 320d certainly has a lot of the qualities that many car/driving enthusiasts value in a car: linear controls, manual gearbox, rear drive, balance, not too heavy, not too much grip. Then again it completely lacks other things that people look for: sound, looks, rarity etc. Bizarrely I actually went from a Z4 Coupé to my first 320d - of course I missed the sound, but found the handling actually better (far less understeer than the Z4C), there was less grip, giving a more natural feel, and the ride was more composed.

As a side point, I'm surprised the economy didn't impress. On a long trip not going over 70mph my 320d ED was comfortably above 70mpg. I'm struggling to think of a car that's better for economy. To combine that with 0-60 in around 8 seconds is freakishly good.

On my commute and driving it to the speed I wanted (not a static 70mph) they all didn’t deliver the mpg at all, mainly as the engine had to work much harder than the motors im used to getting to the speed I want sooner.

Also when you have 4 adults up not even 50bhp each is barely above mopeds.

[cerb4.5lee]

Triumph Man said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Triumph Man said:

Not a 320d, but I think a 330d would be all I need in a car. I'd be disappointed with spending a load of money and having a 4 cylinder engine when for not much more outlay I could have a six.

I always remember reading a review that said...the 320d is all you need...but the 330d is all you want.

In reality though that is still wrong...because a nice petrol engine is what you should really want!

Haha that's true, however I'm a bit of a yokel and big multi cylinder diesels give me the horn.

I also really appreciate the effortless torque from the bigger diesel engines as well to be fair.

[RobM77]

Welshbeef said:

RobM77 said:

All fair points, and I guess this comes down to what you value in a car. The 320d certainly has a lot of the qualities that many car/driving enthusiasts value in a car: linear controls, manual gearbox, rear drive, balance, not too heavy, not too much grip. Then again it completely lacks other things that people look for: sound, looks, rarity etc. Bizarrely I actually went from a Z4 Coupé to my first 320d - of course I missed the sound, but found the handling actually better (far less understeer than the Z4C), there was less grip, giving a more natural feel, and the ride was more composed.

As a side point, I'm surprised the economy didn't impress. On a long trip not going over 70mph my 320d ED was comfortably above 70mpg. I'm struggling to think of a car that's better for economy. To combine that with 0-60 in around 8 seconds is freakishly good.

On my commute and driving it to the speed I wanted (not a static 70mph) they all didn’t deliver the mpg at all, mainly as the engine had to work much harder than the motors im used to getting to the speed I want sooner.

Also when you have 4 adults up not even 50bhp each is barely above mopeds.

I guess driving styles vary, and of course roads. I mainly drive either at a steady speed on dual carriageways, or on winding A and B roads, so rarely need to use acceleration, I'm just going from corner to corner at 50-60mph. I've owned cars with a range of performance, but rarely use it on the road.

[bodhi]

Gotta say the last 320d I drove was probably one of my more disappointing car experiences. It was an F30 when they first came out, a 320d XDrive on winter tyres I hired in the Netherlands. Engine was OK and the toys were great, but god it was awful in the bends. The Dutch love a long sweeping motorway sliproad, and there were a couple round Amsterdam that made me feel seasick.

I'm sure an M-Sport RWD model would be much better, but then it still wouldn't have the pre-requisite number of cylinders I need in my daily driver. I could also do with a hatchback for carrying golf stuff, so for me, I need nothing more than a 440i GC

[ORD]

RobM77 said:

I guess driving styles vary, and of course roads. I mainly drive either at a steady speed on dual carriageways, or on winding A and B roads, so rarely need to use acceleration, I'm just going from corner to corner at 50-60mph. I've owned cars with a range of performance, but rarely use it on the road.

This is key, I think. I pointlessly slow down so that I can accelerate again. Down to 35mph for a 50mph corner so I can come out of it in 2nd gear. That would be miserable in a 20d.

[Ares]

ORD said:

RobM77 said:

I guess driving styles vary, and of course roads. I mainly drive either at a steady speed on dual carriageways, or on winding A and B roads, so rarely need to use acceleration, I'm just going from corner to corner at 50-60mph. I've owned cars with a range of performance, but rarely use it on the road.

This is key, I think. I pointlessly slow down so that I can accelerate again. Down to 35mph for a 50mph corner so I can come out of it in 2nd gear. That would be miserable in a 20d.

That is surely a factor of your driving, not a factor of the car?

The "Do you need anything more than a 320d?" question is clearly designed to stimulate discussion, but it is probably true. Looking at the 'need' i.e., White Good aspect of a car, the attributes a modern 320d has more than covers it.

But 'need' options are dull, 'want' is what drives us.


And anyone that says a 320d is dreadful/dire/etc is either being daft, or has only ever driven great cars. The 320d isn't a ground breaking car. It isn't a car to take for the hell of it. It is a comfy A-to-B machine, as quick as you need, and decent a drive as you need. It is the mid-range Adidas trainers, the Diesel jeans, the lower end Tag Heuer, the bottle of Peroni, the Hendricks Gin of the car world.

[RobM77]

bodhi said:

Gotta say the last 320d I drove was probably one of my more disappointing car experiences. It was an F30 when they first came out, a 320d XDrive on winter tyres I hired in the Netherlands. Engine was OK and the toys were great, but god it was awful in the bends. The Dutch love a long sweeping motorway sliproad, and there were a couple round Amsterdam that made me feel seasick.

I'm sure an M-Sport RWD model would be much better, but then it still wouldn't have the pre-requisite number of cylinders I need in my daily driver. I could also do with a hatchback for carrying golf stuff, so for me, I need nothing more than a 440i GC

We covered this earlier. The 320d on SE suspension is utterly horrendous.

[RobM77]

Ares said:

ORD said:

RobM77 said:

I guess driving styles vary, and of course roads. I mainly drive either at a steady speed on dual carriageways, or on winding A and B roads, so rarely need to use acceleration, I'm just going from corner to corner at 50-60mph. I've owned cars with a range of performance, but rarely use it on the road.

This is key, I think. I pointlessly slow down so that I can accelerate again. Down to 35mph for a 50mph corner so I can come out of it in 2nd gear. That would be miserable in a 20d.

That is surely a factor of your driving, not a factor of the car?

The "Do you need anything more than a 320d?" question is clearly designed to stimulate discussion, but it is probably true. Looking at the 'need' i.e., White Good aspect of a car, the attributes a modern 320d has more than covers it.

But 'need' options are dull, 'want' is what drives us.


And anyone that says a 320d is dreadful/dire/etc is either being daft, or has only ever driven great cars. The 320d isn't a ground breaking car. It isn't a car to take for the hell of it. It is a comfy A-to-B machine, as quick as you need, and decent a drive as you need. It is the mid-range Adidas trainers, the Diesel jeans, the lower end Tag Heuer, the bottle of Peroni, the Hendricks Gin of the car world.

We covered this earlier. If that was the point he was making, then he'd surely use a Yaris, Civic, Focus or other similar car as an example? A fraction of the cost, cheaper to run, and does A to B sufficiently well. In cold What Car terms, they do the same thing as a 3 series. There's surely a reason he chose a £30k rear-drive sports saloon instead, and that's because he was talking about people who like driving. For me at least, driving a variety of BMWs it quickly becomes obvious that many of the higher spec models actually drive worse than the low spec ones, and I think this was the point he was trying to get across. I know this sounds crazy to some people, but having driven the whole 1 series range at a launch event years ago, and subsequently in two test drives with friends and partners, I actually prefer the slower ones to the faster ones. I reckon my favourite 1 series would actually be a faster model, but it'd have to be in a very specific spec, and until then, an off the shelf 116d M Sport (yes, they exist, I drove one a few years ago), is in my opinion a nicer steer. Others on here have said the same thing. However, yes, people like driving for different reasons. I get the feeling Chris Harris' taste in cars is very similar to mine (for road cars, classic cars and track cars), but one thing I've learnt on PH is that there's a huge spectrum of enthusiasm for cars out there. Therefore, I think the more accurate statement is that a 320d is all the car some people will ever need. But that's a bit long winded

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 29th May 17:28

[otolith]

Ares said:

And anyone that says a 320d is dreadful/dire/etc is either being daft, or has only ever driven great cars. The 320d isn't a ground breaking car. It isn't a car to take for the hell of it. It is a comfy A-to-B machine, as quick as you need, and decent a drive as you need. It is the mid-range Adidas trainers, the Diesel jeans, the lower end Tag Heuer, the bottle of Peroni, the Hendricks Gin of the car world.

The last one I drove wasn't dreadful or dire, but it was dull as ditchwater and no fun to drive at all.

[ORD]

RobM77 said:

We covered this earlier. The 320d on SE suspension is utterly horrendous.

Truly appalling suspension, I agree. We had one for a few hundred miles, and it made my wife travel sick with its weird boaty feel. That said, I took it out for a B-road drive on my own, and it was largely fine under hard braking and a bit more spirited driving. Ultimately, it was still a RWD car with a very good weight distribution. But, yes, pretty horrible in normal driving.

[RobM77]

ORD said:

RobM77 said:

We covered this earlier. The 320d on SE suspension is utterly horrendous.

Truly appalling suspension, I agree. We had one for a few hundred miles, and it made my wife travel sick with its weird boaty feel. That said, I took it out for a B-road drive on my own, and it was largely fine under hard braking and a bit more spirited driving. Ultimately, it was still a RWD car with a very good weight distribution. But, yes, pretty horrible in normal driving.

I was dizzy and sea sick for a good hour or two after my drive to work in the one I had for the day. Awful, awful thing.

[Sten.]

My wife had a company 3 series with probably the worst setup possible; xdrive, so wobbly se suspension but the optional 20" wheels on run flat tyres. Nice blend of floaty suspension and bone crushing ride at the same time.

That was a 335d auto, so it was quick but very boring to drive. Previously she had a 220d msport manual which I loved, great to drive.

[Chris32345]

Something that one breakdown like most modern BMW's?

[ddom]

Chris32345 said:

Something that one breakdown like most modern BMW's?

I have read that three times, nope, it doesn't make any sense?

[B'stard Child]

Welshbeef said:

B'stard Child said:

Mr Tidy said:

Is a 320d all you need? Probably.

I would rather be dead.................

Life is just too short to drive a 320d

I call custard.
There is NOTHING wrong with a 320d in fact it’s a great car.
Conversely a Fiat Croma is st and worth passing away even if it was a free brand new car budget or top of the range yielding likely £20-30k cash if I traded it or even gave it away to a penny less person on the street.

What custard do you want

It's an opinion

Everyone has one just like they have an ahole

[anonymous-user]

The 320d is perfectly adequate transport, but why are so many driven by people with massive inferiority complexes ?

I’d be quite happy to Daily one of these with a decent weekend car.

[anonymous-user]

B'stard Child said:

Welshbeef said:

B'stard Child said:

Mr Tidy said:

Is a 320d all you need? Probably.

I would rather be dead.................

Life is just too short to drive a 320d

I call custard.
There is NOTHING wrong with a 320d in fact it’s a great car.
Conversely a Fiat Croma is st and worth passing away even if it was a free brand new car budget or top of the range yielding likely £20-30k cash if I traded it or even gave it away to a penny less person on the street.

What custard do you want

It's an opinion

Everyone has one just like they have an ahole

Yes, I'm not quite sure how that would work. A picture of you lying dead next to a 320d, a pack of custard in one cold dead hand, the other one giving Welshbeef the finger maybe.
It would be the very definition of a pyrrhic victory though.

[Mr Tidy]

ORD said:

TurboHatchback said:

I have an early E90 (330i manual) and in many ways it is perfection, the handling is delightful, it offers enough refinement and space for four people to undertake most European trips whilst being quite compact by modern standards. The steering is lovely, the suspension (SE) is great and overall it's just a really nice car to drive.

I couldn't live with the nasty 20d engine though, IMO the place for rattly 4-cylinder diesels is in vans and pickups and that's it. I'm sure it's the rational choice but a BMW isn't a rational purchase, you have to want it and for me it's a straight 6 petrol or nothing. It's a huge part of why I enjoy the car so much.

Broadly my view on engine choice. You only live once. No need to live with a diesel.

Very true!

I stopped needing a diesel for business use in 2010.

So now I have a 55 plate 330i SE manual for daily duties and it is brilliant.

And a Z4M Coupe for entertainment - I really don't miss diesel.

[hepy]

Schmed said:

The 320d is perfectly adequate transport, but why are so many driven by people with massive inferiority complexes ?

I’d be quite happy to Daily one of these with a decent weekend car.

I’m sure they are great cars, but the whole ‘thrusting executive’ thing puts me off a 3 series. Same for Audi. Just a personal and probably misguided opinion.

[bodhi]

Mr Tidy said:

ORD said:

TurboHatchback said:

I have an early E90 (330i manual) and in many ways it is perfection, the handling is delightful, it offers enough refinement and space for four people to undertake most European trips whilst being quite compact by modern standards. The steering is lovely, the suspension (SE) is great and overall it's just a really nice car to drive.

I couldn't live with the nasty 20d engine though, IMO the place for rattly 4-cylinder diesels is in vans and pickups and that's it. I'm sure it's the rational choice but a BMW isn't a rational purchase, you have to want it and for me it's a straight 6 petrol or nothing. It's a huge part of why I enjoy the car so much.

Broadly my view on engine choice. You only live once. No need to live with a diesel.

Very true!

I stopped needing a diesel for business use in 2010.

So now I have a 55 plate 330i SE manual for daily duties and it is brilliant.

And a Z4M Coupe for entertainment - I really don't miss diesel.

Same here - I've had both a 320d and a 330d in the past, and whilst they were excellent dailys that did everything you need in the daily grind, they did fall short when you took the back road home from work imo. The chassis was great, but the engines were just efficient tools - there wasn't the joy of keeping an N/A straight 6 on the boil, which adds so much to the experience.

The other issue I have is that a 3 Series is strictly speaking too big for what I need. It's just me and the wife, so we only need a 2 + 2 with a big boot for things and golf clubs, so the 125i is all the car I need. It's fun and practical, and I have a fuel card so the so-so consumption is bearable too.