RE: SOTW: Bargain British Cabrios

[Number 5]

I like Escorts (in any format)

[HenryRoyce]

Opulent said:

That Escort is a piece of dog-rough Barryboys ste. Hang your head. Nothing at all Pistonheads about it, apart from the fact is turns petrol into exhaust smoke (very badly). The other 2 have their merits but I'd put owning/driving/seeing a late Escort as somewhere south of eating 2lb's of fresh cat vom.

/\ /\ /\

This

[DJRC]

redgriff500 said:

I have several MX5's outside and a TR7 - the TR7 is worse in every way including rust -needless to say I don't own the TR7 and whilst I am insured to drive it, I've managed to resist - just moving it around the drive demonstrates just how hideous it is.

And from the trackdays I've been on the MX5 is the better car there than the MGF too.

Bulletproof reliability too.

The Mk2 MX5 wasnt as good as the TF. I did the exact comparison back in the day and I was a Mk1 1.6 MX owner. I chose the 135 TF instead of a new MX. It was just a better car in pretty much every area except 2...gearchange and low speed ride. And that is cold hard brand new cash talking, not depreciated 2nd hand cash.

[300bhp/ton]

VeeFour said:

Especially when they're dubious guesswork.

If you look at 'howmanyleft', the figures don't stack up in favour of the MG.

Not really sure what you are claiming. But the TR7 was a top selling sports car in it's day easily out selling any of the previous TR models. It also largely out performed the ageing TR6 too.

MGF did out sell the MX-5 too in the UK (and parts of Europe too I think). Seem to be plenty of them about too.

[VeeFour]

300bhp/ton said:

Not really sure what you are claiming. But the TR7 was a top selling sports car in it's day easily out selling any of the previous TR models. It also largely out performed the ageing TR6 too.

MGF did out sell the MX-5 too in the UK (and parts of Europe too I think). Seem to be plenty of them about too.

Well, if the MGF did outsell the MX5, then people are scrapping them much faster, too - because that's the figure I'd question.

[PlayersNo6]

To us kids the TR7 was a cool car when it was current. Neighbour of ours had a convertible in cashmere gold. It looked like modern design in contrast to the MGB that looked decidedly old hat.

In the mid 90s I fancied getting one and photocopied some 70s Which? reports from the library. The build quality on delivery of a new car was shocking and it wasn't recommended against the competition of the time.

Last year I was again toying with the idea of a TR7 or MGB GT (I like them now) but eventually plumped for an MX5 - purely on reliability and lack of annual bodywork bills. The MkI and II MX5 has its own well documented issues with regards to rust though...

I much prefer the FHC to the convertible but decent ones are rarer and a lot of them seem to have those crappy aftermarket glass pop-up sunroofs in them.

[MattDell]

St John Smythe said:

Sorry but I have to disagree. Am I the only one that thinks TR7s are awful cars? I mean, just look at that interior!

That's the best part! I love those seats... I'd pay £950 just for those checkered seats, the rest of the car is a bonus!

[PlayersNo6]

MattDell said:

That's the best part! I love those seats... I'd pay £950 just for those checkered seats, the rest of the car is a bonus!

Rimmer Bros will sell you a set of brand new covers much cheaper!

[grahamw48]

WHY are people 'bigging up' the SOTW £1000 TR7 by going on about the V8 version?

Totally different cars. Totally different values/desirability/dynamics/performance...OBVIOUSLY !

Fine, so Mr. 300bhp/ton 'I own a TR7' has attempted to take over the whole thread. No bias there then.

Yes I was around in the 70s when TR7s were first unleashed on to a horrified and dismayed British motoring public.

Ugly as hell because they were specifically aimed at the tasteless American market.

I also drove new ones (girlfriend had one), and a V8 imported one.

Neither impressed.

The TR7 2 litre WAS ideal for a girl though, and I was embarrassed to be seen driving such an ugly car.

If we MUST discuss the V8, then the acceleration I've seen quoted on here are spurious. Any production V8s were export autos, and probably not much quicker 0-60 than a good-fettle 2 litre British manual.

Quoting low 9 seconds to 60 for a convertible 2 litre TR7 is also dubious, as I'm pretty sure they were heavier than the hardtop, because of body strengthening.

10 seconds to 60 is more realistic even for the hardtop.

A lot of Carfolios figures are inaccurate, so I wouldn't rely on those, just read the original road test reports.

You only have to read the TR7 specialist forums to discover what rustbuckets
these cars are.

Personally I think they are amongst the ugliest of cars ever to have been parked on a road.

[will261058]

I liked the TR7 when it was new and still do though I would rather have a V8 conversion. The MG TF looked good but access to that engine was poor as it wasnt designed with maintenance in mind which is a shame since it needs so much of it.

[dinkel]

crofty1984 said:

I WILL own a TR7 V8 one day. Or maybe an MGF steptronic if I'm feeling particularly lazy.

Wasn't that called a TR8? Anyways: looks like a summers buy.

[300bhp/ton]

grahamw48 said:

WHY are people 'bigging up' the SOTW £1000 TR7 by going on about the V8 version?

Totally different cars. Totally different values/desirability/dynamics/performance...OBVIOUSLY !

Fine, so Mr. 300bhp/ton 'I own a TR7' has attempted to take over the whole thread. No bias there then.

Yes I was around in the 70s when TR7s were first unleashed on to a horrified and dismayed British motoring public.

Ugly as hell because they were specifically aimed at the tasteless American market.

I also drove new ones (girlfriend had one), and a V8 imported one.

Neither impressed.

The TR7 2 litre WAS ideal for a girl though, and I was embarrassed to be seen driving such an ugly car.

If we MUST discuss the V8, then the acceleration I've seen quoted on here are spurious. Any production V8s were export autos, and probably not much quicker 0-60 than a good-fettle 2 litre British manual.

Quoting low 9 seconds to 60 for a convertible 2 litre TR7 is also dubious, as I'm pretty sure they were heavier than the hardtop, because of body strengthening.

10 seconds to 60 is more realistic even for the hardtop.

A lot of Carfolios figures are inaccurate, so I wouldn't rely on those, just read the original road test reports.

You only have to read the TR7 specialist forums to discover what rustbuckets
these cars are.

Personally I think they are amongst the ugliest of cars ever to have been parked on a road.

oh wow you are just so right...

[300bhp/ton]

dinkel said:

crofty1984 said:

I WILL own a TR7 V8 one day. Or maybe an MGF steptronic if I'm feeling particularly lazy.

Wasn't that called a TR8? Anyways: looks like a summers buy.

All V8's to America were TR8's however a very small (seem to recall 54) UK TR7 V8's where built and sold. The US model used the low CR V8 as found in an MGB V8 or latter Land Rovers with approx 137hp and 189lb ft. UK models had the same 155hp as a Rover SD1 and slightly higher CR. The Works rally cars were all/mostly TR7 V8 in name and registered as. I do believe there are a couple of UK TR8's but not sure as to why they are called it.

[300bhp/ton]

VeeFour said:

Well, if the MGF did outsell the MX5, then people are scrapping them much faster, too - because that's the figure I'd question.

Or more logically the MX-5 has been on sale for more years. I'd from 1990, so 6 years earlier than the F and it is still sold. So even if the MGF out sold it on a yearly basis, the total sold is likely less. Also are you adding F and TF figures together or just using one of them?

[tr7v8]

300bhp/ton said:

dinkel said:

crofty1984 said:

I WILL own a TR7 V8 one day. Or maybe an MGF steptronic if I'm feeling particularly lazy.

Wasn't that called a TR8? Anyways: looks like a summers buy.

All V8's to America were TR8's however a very small (seem to recall 54) UK TR7 V8's where built and sold. The US model used the low CR V8 as found in an MGB V8 or latter Land Rovers with approx 137hp and 189lb ft. UK models had the same 155hp as a Rover SD1 and slightly higher CR. The Works rally cars were all/mostly TR7 V8 in name and registered as. I do believe there are a couple of UK TR8's but not sure as to why they are called it.

The numbers of TR8 autos were miniscule, most were manuals that was one of the reasons why they didn't officially launch it elsewhere as the production of LT77s was limited so they went in SD1s. Only the rally cars & a few pre-production cars were TR7 V8s the rest were all TR8s.
The TR7 at launch was compared with Capri 2l, Porsche 924 & Mazda RX7 & was deemed competitive with them. Only the brakes came in for criticism as being soft. This was from people like Autocar & Motor & Car & Driver.

Looks are subjective but it was launched at a time when the market went for wedges, like RX7 & Fiat X1/9 but most people who don't have the prejudices of some of the people here reckoned it was a nice looking car. I was never convinced on the FHC but it was designed for a whole set of regulations that never became law, so was driven by that. That is why they are incredibly strong & over engineered.

I really enjoyed mine which in the early days was a 7 converted to an 8 on the cheap. An earlier TR had no interest for me & in convoy a 7 will stay with the previous models anyway as it is much easier to drive nearer the limit.
It was a mid-70s design & of the period. If the scousers had managed to screw them together properly in the early days then there would be more of them, as it is 125,000 found owners all over the world which is more than all the other TRs.

[VeeFour]

tr7v8 said:

The TR7 at launch was compared with Capri 2l, Porsche 924 & Mazda RX7 & was deemed competitive with them.

Maybe competitive with a Capri, but the other two are on a completely different and significantly better level.

Edited by VeeFour on Saturday 25th June 18:17

[grahamw48]

tr7v8 said:

300bhp/ton said:

dinkel said:

crofty1984 said:

I WILL own a TR7 V8 one day. Or maybe an MGF steptronic if I'm feeling particularly lazy.

Wasn't that called a TR8? Anyways: looks like a summers buy.

All V8's to America were TR8's however a very small (seem to recall 54) UK TR7 V8's where built and sold. The US model used the low CR V8 as found in an MGB V8 or latter Land Rovers with approx 137hp and 189lb ft. UK models had the same 155hp as a Rover SD1 and slightly higher CR. The Works rally cars were all/mostly TR7 V8 in name and registered as. I do believe there are a couple of UK TR8's but not sure as to why they are called it.

The numbers of TR8 autos were miniscule, most were manuals that was one of the reasons why they didn't officially launch it elsewhere as the production of LT77s was limited so they went in SD1s. Only the rally cars & a few pre-production cars were TR7 V8s the rest were all TR8s.
The TR7 at launch was compared with Capri 2l, Porsche 924 & Mazda RX7 & was deemed competitive with them. Only the brakes came in for criticism as being soft. This was from people like Autocar & Motor & Car & Driver.

Looks are subjective but it was launched at a time when the market went for wedges, like RX7 & Fiat X1/9 but most people who don't have the prejudices of some of the people here reckoned it was a nice looking car. I was never convinced on the FHC but it was designed for a whole set of regulations that never became law, so was driven by that. That is why they are incredibly strong & over engineered.

I really enjoyed mine which in the early days was a 7 converted to an 8 on the cheap. An earlier TR had no interest for me & in convoy a 7 will stay with the previous models anyway as it is much easier to drive nearer the limit.
It was a mid-70s design & of the period. If the scousers had managed to screw them together properly in the early days then there would be more of them, as it is 125,000 found owners all over the world which is more than all the other TRs.

I think you need to do more TR8 research young man.

Also, do please tell me of another British 'sports' car of similar shape designed and sold in the 1970s.

As for the pretty, mid-engined Fiat X1/9...described at the time as a 'mini-Ferrari', yes, lovely little car, beautifully proportioned, targa top and great handling. My work colleague bought a new one. We drove up to Aviemore in it one time. Now they REALLY make the TR7 look ugly.

[PlayersNo6]

Which? initially compared/grouped the TR7 FHC with the following :

Sports cars & coupes :

Fiat X1/9
Ford Capri 2.0S
Ginetta G21
MGB GT
Opel Kadett GT/E
Opel Manta 1.9SR
Vauxhall Cavalier 1.9GLS coupe

'Sporting' saloons :

Alfasud Ti
Ford Escort RS2000
Ford Cortina 2.0S
Lancia Beta 2000
Opel Ascona 1.9SR
Triumph Dolomite 1850HL
Vauxhall Cavalier 1.9GL

[grahamw48]

VeeFour said:

tr7v8 said:

The TR7 at launch was compared with Capri 2l, Porsche 924 & Mazda RX7 & was deemed competitive with them.

:ROFL:

Maybe competitive with a Capri, but the other two are on a completely different and significantly better level.

How on earth could they be comparing a (strictly) 2 seater TR7 to a 4 seater hatchback Capri anyway ?

Ridiculous.

I know which one I'd have chosen at the time. ...and which are certainly the preferred and more valued 'classic' today.

[grahamw48]

PlayersNo6 said:

Which? initially compared/grouped the TR7 FHC with the following :

Sports cars & coupes :

Fiat X1/9
Ford Capri 2.0S
Ginetta G21
MGB GT
Opel Kadett GT/E
Opel Manta 1.9SR
Vauxhall Cavalier 1.9GLS coupe

'Sporting' saloons :

Alfasud Ti
Ford Escort RS2000
Ford Cortina 2.0S
Lancia Beta 2000
Opel Ascona 1.9SR
Triumph Dolomite 1850HL
Vauxhall Cavalier 1.9GL

Yes, but the SOTW in question is a CABRIOLET.

Aside from which though....some MUCH better cars on that list to choose from.