RE: Tell me I'm wrong: BMW M5
Discussion
E38Ross said:
Trommel - i said earlier i think it's rather appalling, noise is a large part of the drama, but i'm not sure it'd put me off buying the car. why not? stop it coming through the speakers and buy an after market exhaust?
s
t noises haven't put people off buying performance cars, look at the 911 997 turbo, it sounds st. at least BMW did SOMETHING to try to make up for it....admittedly in a shockingly st way 
for me, it wouldn't put me off the car, because it's something that could be easily sorted. i'd be more interested in how quick it is, how comfortable it is, how nice the interior is, how roomy it is, what it's like to live with in traffic, around town, on the motorway, and how good it likes to be thrashed on open A and B roads. if it does all of those superbly with the the annoyance of a st noise coming through the speakers, i could live with that, and soon unplug it and get a nice exhaust.
you get a nice noise and the then what the M5 is all about....waftalicious with plenty of schnell.
^^^^ Thiss
t noises haven't put people off buying performance cars, look at the 911 997 turbo, it sounds st. at least BMW did SOMETHING to try to make up for it....admittedly in a shockingly st way for me, it wouldn't put me off the car, because it's something that could be easily sorted. i'd be more interested in how quick it is, how comfortable it is, how nice the interior is, how roomy it is, what it's like to live with in traffic, around town, on the motorway, and how good it likes to be thrashed on open A and B roads. if it does all of those superbly with the the annoyance of a s
t noise coming through the speakers, i could live with that, and soon unplug it and get a nice exhaust.you get a nice noise and the then what the M5 is all about....waftalicious with plenty of schnell.
I love my manual E90 M3 but as my family is growing up I need something bigger.
I have test driven the M5 and I love it - can't think of something else that fits the bill for me so will hopefully find a way into one by the end of the year.
E38Ross said:
for me, it wouldn't put me off the car, because it's something that could be easily sorted. i'd be more interested in how quick it is, how comfortable it is, how nice the interior is, how roomy it is, what it's like to live with in traffic, around town, on the motorway, and how good it likes to be thrashed on open A and B roads. if it does all of those superbly with the the annoyance of a st noise coming through the speakers, i could live with that, and soon unplug it and get a nice exhaust.
you get a nice noise and the then what the M5 is all about....waftalicious with plenty of schnell.
All these people saying "don't care how good the car is, I wouldn't buy one because of the fake engine noise" seem daft. They would miss out on such a sublime piece of engineering over a little gimmick? Just forget about it or turn it off if it REALLY bothers you. t noise coming through the speakers, i could live with that, and soon unplug it and get a nice exhaust.you get a nice noise and the then what the M5 is all about....waftalicious with plenty of schnell.
The whole issue is completely blown out of proportion IMO, it's getting far more attention than what the car is actually like to drive..
Excellent article. It's almost as if we're going back to the "muscle car" days of the late 60s and early 70s when sportscars had plenty of power but nowhere near enough traction and braking to make them interesting to drive anywhere besides a dragstrip (and what kind of numbskull would you need to be to enjoy driving on a dragstrip??)
I'd be interested to see how this compares point-to-point with a Ferrari 550, which has similar performance figures, and which in my humble opinion is the last realy good car that humanity is going to be able to produce, now that our over-reliance on technology has got he better of us.
I'd be interested to see how this compares point-to-point with a Ferrari 550, which has similar performance figures, and which in my humble opinion is the last realy good car that humanity is going to be able to produce, now that our over-reliance on technology has got he better of us.
"I'd be interested to see how this compares point-to-point with a Ferrari 550, which has similar performance figures, and which in my humble opinion is the last really good car that humanity is going to be able to produce, now that our over-reliance on technology has got he better of us."
Excellent post. Again much better insight than the journalists.
If we were to see a 550 vs f10M5 twin test we would learn about what a GT car can really be. Indeed the comparison is a joke as of course the M5 would feel like a bus beside it. j
Excellent post. Again much better insight than the journalists.
If we were to see a 550 vs f10M5 twin test we would learn about what a GT car can really be. Indeed the comparison is a joke as of course the M5 would feel like a bus beside it. j
Robsti said:
Chris Stott said:
Robsti said:
BMWs are really growing in size!
Saw a new 3 today and it looked HUGE.
Hmmm... I went to look at one last weekend and thought it was still pokey inside.Saw a new 3 today and it looked HUGE.
The new 5er is massive though!
what's your point?
E38Ross said:
kambites said:
jbi said:
Width is a good thing... it adds to the cars stability and improves cornering
That's width to height ratio, not outright width. It's not as if a car like this is ever going to handle like a sports car anyway.
Of course this is a general moan at the state of the car industry, not at BMW in particular. I wouldn't mind if interior width was growing at the same rate as exterior width but that doesn't appear to be the case.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 22 February 08:43
kambites said:
E38Ross said:
kambites said:
jbi said:
Width is a good thing... it adds to the cars stability and improves cornering
That's width to height ratio, not outright width. i can't see how width lowers visibility, ultimately, the windscreen pillars affect that as does vehicle height. so if you want ultimate visibility over those hedges you want a vehicle on stilts
re interior width - i suspect it's for safety, in the event of a side on collision i suspect most would be pretty happy with it.
cars are getting bigger, it suits most people, just not those who want the smaller, lighter cars...but there are people out there catering for your needs too so i don't see the issue you have with them to be honest?
E38Ross said:
i can't see how width lowers visibility, ultimately, the windscreen pillars affect that as does vehicle height. so if you want ultimate visibility over those hedges you want a vehicle on stilts
Because whenever you're approaching a visually obstructed corner, you position your car to open sight lines as much as possible. With a wider car, you have less margin to do that. Are there people who are catering for those who want, say, a saloon car with a decent sized interior but minimal exterior width? I can't think of anything. As you say, I think everyone has got too obsessed by crash safety to make it viable. Personally, I'd rather have a car with a one-star NCAP rating that I can actually see out of and position such that I can see down the road properly, than a five-star one that I can't.
ETA: For what it's worth I'm not saying this should be narrower, I fully understand why it's the width it is. I just think the focus of the car has changed - I think it's aimed at people who spend their lives on A-roads and rarely venture onto smaller ones. That would certainly explain a lot about the changes in the last couple of generations - the extra size, the decision to go for what appears to be a less driver-focussed steering setup, the choice of a turbocharged engine, the automatic only gearbox,... the M5 has turned into an E-class AMG, essentially. That doesn't make it worse, just different.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 22 February 09:02
I haven't read all of the replies to this articles so apologise if my view is redundant however i thought this was a really well written and thought out page and one i completely agree with i have allways preferred less power less weight i guess ever since reading colin chapmans thesis on speed which went something like "power makes you fast in a straight line, lightness makes you fast everywhere" i have loved the lighter cars. However i believe that if BMW wanted to they could have made the M5 so much lighter with modern manufacturing methods of bonding rather than welding and specialist materials they could do something better, bearing in mind this car will be near enough supercar money there is no reason it cant be a predominately carbon fibre tub construction.
kambites said:
E38Ross said:
i can't see how width lowers visibility, ultimately, the windscreen pillars affect that as does vehicle height. so if you want ultimate visibility over those hedges you want a vehicle on stilts
Because whenever you're approaching a visually obstructed corner, you position your car to open sight lines as much as possible. With a wider car, you have less margin to do that. Are there people who are catering for those who want, say, a saloon car with a decent sized interior but minimal exterior width? I can't think of anything. As you say, I think everyone has got too obsessed by crash safety to make it viable.
i'm going to go out on a limb here though and say at least 95% of drivers on UK roads would rather have a car a couple of inches wider and it be considerably safer in a crash, particularly side-on collisions though. with increased targets to reduce road deaths and serious casualities and more stringent NCAP ratings it's not hard to see why it's happening.
does seem some manufacturers get more stick for it than others though. as lu51fer pointed out, the mondeo is wider than (or certainly as wide as) this M5, never heard anyone moan about the mondeo being too big yet everyone on here moans about the new 3 and 5. why is that? just curious is all.
E38Ross said:
i'm going to go out on a limb here though and say at least 95% of drivers on UK roads would rather have a car a couple of inches wider and it be considerably safer in a crash, particularly side-on collisions though. with increased targets to reduce road deaths and serious casualities and more stringent NCAP ratings it's not hard to see why it's happening.
Probably true, but personally I think it's gone too far, both from the point of view of making roads pleasant to use and from the point of view of safety itself. Slightly off-topic but look at how much visibility is obscured by the huge A-pillars and wing mirrors on almost all modern cars. In the name of safety, we've built a generation of cars you can hardly see out of. And how often do you get half way 'round a corner on a small B-road and find something coming the other way on your side of the road because it wont actually fit on its own side? E38Ross said:
does seem some manufacturers get more stick for it than others though. as lu51fer pointed out, the mondeo is wider than this M5, never heard anyone moan about the mondeo being too big yet everyone on here moans about the new 3 and 5. why is that? just curious is all.
I moan about both, personally, but I do notice what you're saying too and I suspect the reason for that is BMW's own fault in a way - Ford make no claims that the Mondeo is "the ultimate driving machine". 
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 22 February 09:10
pilchardthecat said:
Epic failure on the part of BMW.
The big numbers/failure to engage argument made in the article is one i agree with. It started with the 135i/335i in my opinion, and now it enters M division with the 1M and this. I'm sure it's a good car, but they aren't going to sell them to the same set of people that bought M cars for the previous 10-15 years
otolith said:
I don't think cars get wider generation on generation just for crash safety - I think it likely that the main driver of that is simply upselling the new, larger car to owners of the previous model.
I'd be interested to see figures for the interior width (say at the point of the driver's elbow) for each successive generation of 5-series. 
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